Talk:Muang Thong Thani

A fact from Muang Thong Thani appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 October 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Muang Thong Thani (street pictured), intended as a satellite city of Bangkok, has been called "one of the greatest planning disasters of the 20th century"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Muang Thong Thani.

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Naming

I thought that as a proper name, the spelling as seen on the giant sign at the entrance to the complex should be used? Paul C 09:43, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The proper name is in Thai letters, but for the romanization of Thai there are countless variations, almost all of which are unofficial and unrecognized. A recognized authoritative source for Anglicizing Thai is the Muang is a common version of transcribing เมือง, yet Mueang is the more standard one, as U and UE stand for two different sounds. See also the discussion at Talk:Don Mueang. andy 20:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking that since this is a privately owned business, Bangkok Land PLC's preferred spelling would overrule? Paul_012 ^(talk) 09:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Go to Google and search for Muang (2,420,000) vs. Mueang (175,000), the same Thai word romanized two different ways. Bangkok Land spells it both ways, depending on which sheet of theirs you pick up (English version). Most maps and guides spell it Muang. Likewise in Google, "Muang Thong Thani" (125,000) vs. "Mueang Thong Thani" (350), i.e., more than a 150:1 ratio. Thus, I believe Wikipedia is correct in its analysis to use Muang while crossreferencing to Mueang. Notably, there is more than one established "standard" in transliteration between Thai and A-z, even just in academic and government circles. I know because my company has a translation business in Muang Thong Thani. 124.121.80.158 16:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Mark Prado, June 2007.[reply]

"Muang" is a Thai word for country or district, e.g., every province has an "Amphur Muang" (central), and it's practically always spelled Muang. Same word origin, exact same spelling in Thai. The nature of the problem here is higher class Thais' propensity to add letters to their names to make them longer and seem more sophisticated, in this case some of the people in the company Bangkok Land. Adding redundant vowels and h's is common to stretch names. You can find the Mekong river spelled Maekhong (796 in Google, more than twice as many as Mueang Thong Thani). There's the recent Prime Minister Thaksin, pronounced Taksin. There's no Thai "h" in the Thai spelling. Phi Phi island is not pronounced like Fi Fi, confusing to many foreigners asking for directions. The three vowels in a row in Mueang is over the top. Muang Thong Thani is a district name, and while Bangkok Land Public Co., Ltd., coined the name, and can spell it any way it chooses, it owns only part of the land, just like Christopher Columbus' heirs do not own the District of Columbia. However, I have the 2005 Annual Report for the Bangkok Land Public Company Limited in my hand and they spell it Muang Thong Thani, not Mueang Thong Thani. It's like driving down the road in Thailand, whereby you can see the same city spelled different ways in A-z, but always the same way in Thai. Phatthaya, Pattaya, Nakhon, Nakorn, Ratchasima, Rajasima, and so forth. I work in Muang Thong Thani, and in most places it's spelled Muang inside the geographical district, just like most every Amphur Muang. There is more than a 100:1 ratio in Google for just Muang vs. Mueang, which is par for many misspelled words in the world. Why does any bureaucrat want to claim authority for the status of a new way to spell a word?

As to the sudden decision to change Don Muang to Don Mueang after 90 years of the old spelling, maybe some corrupt politician wanted to make millions of baht from replacing all of the highway and street signs, as they did. I still refuse to spell it "mueang", as do many of the airlines. Some "expert" tried to argue with me that "mueang" reflects the pronunciation better. But he shut up when I asked him to explain how "Suvarnabhumi" (the new airport) reflects the pronunciation (Suwannapoom). (However, at least Suvarnabhumi was new.) Accepting the change from "muang" to "mueang" is conforming to a bad lead.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 07:08, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Muang Thong Thani

... that the development of Muang Thong Thani (pictured), intended as a satellite city of Bangkok, crashed so spectacularly it has been called "one of the greatest planning disasters of the 20th century"? Source: "Among many fiascos, Muang Tong Tani (MTT), stands out as one of the greatest planning disasters of the 20th century." [1] (page 18 of the PDF)
- - ALT0a: ... that the development of Muang Thong Thani (pictured) crashed so spectacularly it has been called "one of the greatest planning disasters of the 20th century"?
  - ALT0b: ... that Muang Thong Thani (pictured), intended as a satellite city of Bangkok, has been called "one of the greatest planning disasters of the 20th century"?
- ALT1:... that the developers of Muang Thong Thani (pictured) aimed to build a privately owned satellite city with a population of 700,000—from scratch? Source: "The family's Bangkok Land company began acquiring parcels of property near the airport, and they broke ground in 1990 on a megaproject to build a privately owned satellite city for Bangkok. Muang Thong Thani was to have a population of 700,000, bigger than Boston's." [2]

Reviewed: Arthur J. Hill
Comment: ~~I might be able to add a photo in a day or two.~~ I've included more context in the original hook, but also provided shorter variations if length is a concern. I'm a bit unsure about Alt1, as the reported figures are rather variable. The Bloomberg source cited in the article gives 500,000, while the 1994 Manager article (in Thai) says a population of 374,000 was predicted for 2002. Maybe 700,000 was for the original plan, and the number was revised down as the project went on?

5x expanded by Paul_012 (talk). Self-nominated at 17:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I like ALT0b, its more concise than the others. Referenced text is comprehensive. No Swan So Fine (talk) 09:44, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ALT0b to T:DYK/P3