Talk:Mountain railways of India/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

What about Indian mountain railways, past and present, not designated by UNESCO?

There are other mountain railways in India, only a couple mentioned in the article, and many extinct ones. Evey major hill station had one of these, at least in the planning, at one time or another. Anmccaff (talk) 21:18, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Recent reversion

Restoring the 2016 version also restored the fictitious ghost stories about "Colonel Barog". Anmccaff (talk) 13:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

• @Anmccaff: What ghost stories? Where? Why are they fictitious? What sources are you bringing? The version I restored included a lead section that justified the scope of the article. The current article is mess, ripped apart by a user who made those edits and no other. The copyediting which followed was based on those edits, and has us in the position that we're in today. The GA-approved version is, more or less, the September 2016 article. Your edit strikes me as most unhelpful. Mackensen (talk) 17:59, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

There are a whole group of nonsensical claims about the Barog Tunnel, claiming that its engineer committed suicide after the two ends failed to meet. This is a standard form of folklore - "architect?artist/designer commits suicide after..." and fails verification on several levels. First, there is no mention, -anywhere- of a "Colonel Barog" elsewhere; he doesn't show in the civil lists, death, births...name it. Next, contemporary sources -all- spell the name of "Barogh hill/ridge/spur" with an aitch. Next, the hill was named before the tunnel existed. Next, the project was extensively publicly documented down to noting when the the chief engineer went on leave. Harrington was in charge from the beginning, and there are no contemporaneous mentions of any problems with the tunnel beyond high-pressure groundwater. Anmccaff (talk) 18:10, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, sounds great. Is there a source for this? Mackensen (talk) 18:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

You know we are getting into proving a negative territory here? Anmccaff (talk) 18:22, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Nothing of the kind. I have no personal knowledge of the situation, but the story in the article is sourced. If the source and/or the story is crap, then there should be a source which says so or disproves it. Put another way, a reliable source which recounts all the things you've just said would obviously supersede what's in the article now. Mackensen (talk) 18:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Could you take a dive into a few searches first, before we resume the conversation? I suspect you'll find that there are several sources for the ghost stories, with the same story told about different locations, and some stories fuddling together equally crap stories about the redoubtable Bhalku, mostly internet based, or from "human interest" newspaper filler; and then there are some professional writings about the tunnel from 110 years ago, none of which support the modern internet fluff....and just about nothing connecting the two, at least readily available online, and I don't have current access to a decent engineering library.

(Re the red-linked Balcoo/Bhalku/Balkhu/etc, it's a real pity this guy has no article, yet has so much complete stinking shite written about him on the internet. A great man, in his own strange way. He is one of 3 men who made the Rogi Cliff road possible; while now largely forgotten, it was one of the Victorian Raj's greatest engineering accomplishments.) Anmccaff (talk) 18:49, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll happily review any change that you make, with attendant sources. Inasmuch as you're challenging the current state of the article, it's on you to provide them. As I said, I don't doubt that you're right, but the article needs to be written from sources. It sounds to me like you already know what these are, and where to find them. Mackensen (talk) 19:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Remember, I'm not questioning the current state of the article; I edited out what I'll call the Barog Bucket-kick Bull about four months ago; it only came back in with your BRDed edit. This doesn't change matters of fact, of course. Anmccaff (talk) 19:27, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Fine, can I put the rest back then? Mackensen (talk) 19:42, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Some of the other stuff has some issues, also; for instance, it seems to claim there are only 20-odd narrow-gauge lines left on earth...or that the KRS and the Darjeeling are meter gauge, or....something; I'm not sure exactly what that first paragraph is saying. But yeah, a lot of it is a lot better than the current version, and it eliminates the biggest problem, that the intervening version confused the UNESCO site with mountain railroads as a whole. I ain't gonna stop you. Anmccaff (talk) 19:50, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, that looks a lot more betterer, as me old First Sergeant was wont to say. Anmccaff (talk) 21:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey, I have made several updates to the article. I cleaned up some sections, added info on some other etc. But much work is still remaining. That is

• A montage image is required for info-box/lead section.
• Are panorama images allowed on Wikipedia. If no, then the sole one has to be removed.
• There are many more mountain railways in India. As far as i compared railway schematic map with topographical map of India, could see many lines crossing mountains. This article seriously needs expansion(as a good article shouldn't be incomplete) and for the same, a railway expert on Wikipedia is needed. Is there anyone?

Also, if I have done some wrong stuff, then please revert only the select part. Please do not revert all my edits. Thanks MRI SCAN (talk) 13:14, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Barogh Tunnel length 3753? feet

Contemporaneous construction cites gave 3750 feet, final 3752; I think this might have seen some conversion creep, since the original portals are intact. Anmccaff (talk) 22:19, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

"762 millimeter narrow-gauge line."

Not when it was built, it wasn't, and the railways kept on with Imperial measurements well after independence. The proper name for this in 2'6". Anmccaff (talk) 20:40, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

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