This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list and the Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of U.S. historic sites listed on the National Register of Historic Places on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Register of Historic PlacesWikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesTemplate:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesNational Register of Historic Places articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Maryland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Maryland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MarylandWikipedia:WikiProject MarylandTemplate:WikiProject MarylandMaryland articles
I have just modified one external link on Mount Royal Station. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Mount Royal Station → Mount Royal Station (Maryland Institute College of Art) – No clear indication that this article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over any of the others at Mount Royal station (disambiguation). The Montreal station is the most notable page which shares a name, at Mont-Royal station (Montreal Metro), and its namesake Mount Royal is already the primary topic for that name on its own. It also has the most translations on other wikis and links from other pages. However, as the common name is the French spelling, I think it would be potentially confusing to make it the primary topic on English Wikipedia, and instead the disambiguation page can be used. Parenthetical disambiguating text follows convention of University Hall (Brown University) and other generic university buildings which cannot be distinguished by geography alone. Middle river exports --Middle river exports (talk) 00:10, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I had thought about using the B&O name first, but there is not much precedent for using a historical name to disambiguate in favor of a current one. The building was acquired and renovated by MICA in the 1960's. Its sole current use is as a university building, and every sign for it includes the university name to avoid confusion with the more well known and currently operating Mount Royal light rail station which is nearby. See attached image from Commons - I think the Maryland Institute College of Art disambiguation makes sense because that is already the most recognizable way to refer to it. The university name is posted all over the building. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad is possibly more recognizable than most historical affiliations of buildings, but it would be mostly inconsistent with similar articles about adaptive reuse buildings. Even Willis Tower has been chosen as the article name for Sears Tower.
Oppose as unnecessary. The article title has been stable since 2008; the only direct naming conflict requiring disambiguation is with Mount Royal station (Light RailLink) (maybe, that page title is unstable), and it's clearly more important than the light rail station. A cursory search of Google Books suggests that most sources discussing Mount Royal Station are discussing this topic and not the stations in Montreal. Mackensen(talk)00:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The reason for this is because Montreal is in Quebec, where many people's first language is French. The French name of the stations is used for their articles, and the English name is used for the place names. This is common for English Wikipedia, but it is typically also expected behavior for the English translation to redirect should the article title be using the common name that derives from another language. However, we do not place Georgia (U.S. state) as the primary topic just because the vast majority of sources on Georgia (country) are in Georgian. For the Google Books search to be used as a criterion here, we would also have to demonstrate also that French language publications use Mont-Royal to refer to the Baltimore station more often than the Montreal one. Using the search by language function on Google Books ([1]) to search "Mont-Royal" restricted to French language sources, you have to go through several pages before you get to any sources referring to the Baltimore one. When adding "Baltimore" as a required search term to "Mont-Royal," most sources that come up are from before the 1960's, which is both the time when Baltimore Mount Royal station stopped operating, and when Montreal Mount Royal station started operating (This is from 1901, for example https://www.google.com/books/edition/Etats_Unis_et_Canada/T8HbPOClIgkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Mont-Royal+baltimore&pg=PA426&printsec=frontcover)
Mount Royal Avenue already has the Montreal street (Montreal itself comes from "Mount Royal" / "Mont-Royal") as the main page, and a disambiguating link to Mount Royal Avenue (Baltimore), which leads to a section link on a list because it is not even notable enough to have its own article on English Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an international site, and notability is taken to mean notability to the world, not the English-speaking world, but besides that Canada is inherently a bilingual country and is going to have people using both English and French search terms. It is also quite clear that Mount Royal Avenue in Baltimore is modeled at least in part after Mount Royal Avenue in Quebec. The article says that the Canadian street that intersects Mount Royal Avenue is named Park Avenue, and Park Avenue is also the name of the street which intersections with Mount Royal Avenue in Baltimore.
It is also worth considering that the Montreal Mount Royal station is particularly notable to the topic of Canadian railway history. Many English-language sources describe the Mount Royal Tunnel and highlight the fact that was the first subway tunnel in Canada. See: [2] (A notable tunnel was also purpose-built for Mount Royal station in Baltimore, but there is much more written about the Canadian one even in English.) The town in Quebec named Mount Royal, which holds the other Canadian train station, was itself built in conjunction with the Canadian railway which ran through it, making the history of that town linked to that station. See: [3]
The amount of time the article title has been stable is not really relevant here. Havre de Grace also redirected to the Maryland town of Havre de Grace, Maryland, until the redirect was changed to its more well known namesake city of Le Havre, France, which used to be called Havre de Grace in full; after which a disambiguation page was created which has persisted since.
As a final point - of the four Mount Royal stations which have articles on Wikipedia, the Baltimore one which is currently the main topic is the only one which is not currently an operating train station. It's been a university building since the 1960's. --Middle river exports (talk) 03:13, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I wanted to add also because I missed it - it is really not clearly more important than the light rail station. MICA is a smaller university than the University of Baltimore, and the light rail station was originally purpose-built for the University of Baltimore on its property. The B&O Mount Royal station hasn't been used by the public in decades, where as most Baltimore residents have used the currently operating public transportation. It is also not the first thing that comes to mind when referring to "Mount Royal" is the light rail station because it is actually on Mount Royal. The historic Mount Royal station is actually doesn't have an entrance on Mount Royal Avenue. It's had a Cathedral Street address since its renovation by MICA and cannot be accessed from Mount Royal without walking onto Howard Street and Cathedral Street first.
Mount Royal is also the most accessible light rail connection to the main train station in Baltimore, Penn Station (Penn Station light rail station only runs a shuttle to Camden, it's not a full link to the line). The only reason the light rail station doesn't have a longer article than the B&O one is because I haven't had time to write it yet, there are certainly enough references available. --Middle river exports (talk) 03:26, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Makes sense to me, but I would propose simply "Mount Royal Station (Baltimore)" which would include both the B&O and MICA aspects of its history. Sauzer (talk) 12:25, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I should have made it more clear in the opening description - there are two different places called Mount Royal Station in Baltimore. Mount Royal station (Light RailLink) is the currently operating train station and this article is the historical building which was acquired by the university in the 1960's. --Middle river exports (talk) 12:35, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Woops, I didn't realize you're a local editor; you're probably aware of that. I think it would be confusing still for Mount Royal Station (Baltimore) not to be about the light rail station. --Middle river exports (talk) 12:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The light rail station didn't occur to me at all when I first replied. I can see how that would be confusing then. I suppose it would be a matter of opinion which of the two "stations" is the more prominent nowadays, and it would be hard to establish something like that objectively anyway. I think part of me just didn't want to erase the B&O history side of things from the title, but ultimately it's not a huge deal. I suppose I support your original move suggestion now. Sauzer (talk) 20:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
