Talk:Morissette (singer)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Vocal profile

I'm with the opinion that the present content of the section "Vocal profile" is NOT appropriate. It is entirely the opinion of one person running a website analyzing various singers, and is thus extremely subjective. It might be better if the one running the site actually posted credentials, e.g. being a voice teacher, etc. but the writer is completely anonymous. The puts in doubt the credibility of the analysis to begin with.

Rather, I believe the section should contain content that can be pieced from various articles/interviews, such as her deliberate use of vocal breaks, the deliberate use of the whistle register in her album as discovered by Star Records, influences to her singing style, etc. All of these can be found in articles that can be readily cited, and these articles typically source Morissette directly, e.g. during interviews.

Can anyone care to give their thoughts on the matter? I have refrained from editing out this section until I hear thoughts of other people. Hwi Noree (talk) 14:35, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

@Hwi Noree: I wouldn't be surprised if that source's author added that text. You're right that it badly needs better sources, although anything that goes to what Morissette says about herself would probably not work per WP:PRIMARY. The best option would be to have text sourced to an identified, credible expert on vocals who has said something about her voice. Right now, I think the entire section should be deleted. If it gets restored, it ought to be from scratch with nothing to do with what's there now. CityOfSilver 14:42, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

@CityOfSilver: Yes, I was thinking of rewriting the entire thing from scratch. But unsurprisingly, there's little material regarding what her voice really sounds like because to begin with the entire matter is subjective. For example, people are pitting Morissette against Kim So-hyang in various Youtube videos with comments; fans there think one is trash and the other is gold, the only difference being if you're the fan of the former or the latter. And these things are rather polarizing, with little in the way of moderates that think both are good but only differ in the way singers vary in their singing style. It's probably best to just move the established facts of Morissette's voice (the whistling and the vocal breaks) which I put in the introduction to this section, then augment it a little.

As with regard to citation, WP:PRIMARY is NOT applicable in specific cases. Take the simple example of Morissette's vocal breaks. I've always wondered if this is just an artifact of her lack of training in transitioning through registers, or it's really "intentional" as often mentioned. Only the singer him or herself can say if these are intentional or not, and I've only found one article wherein Morissette was quoted verbatim that it was deliberate. Moreover, how about musical influences? An "expert" can probably say singer A sounds like singer B stylistically, but only the singer can say which artists actually influenced his or her singing style. There are valuable data that you can only get from the singer directly, and I don't think WP:PRIMARY applies in these cases. Hwi Noree (talk) 15:26, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Range

User:Jaspergeli added Category:Singers with a five-octave vocal range and the phrase "Amon has been touted to have the vocal range of five octaves and two notes recently (B2–C8).<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLATmQYAxss</ref>". This replaced an earlier claim, "Amon has been touted to have the vocal range of four octaves recently (C3-B7).<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGi7UD5MfF8</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a37_feT0tc</ref>" Fan-generated collections of clips on YouTube are not reliable sources. Until reliable sources can be found, that claim and the category ought to be removed. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:47, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Morissette 2.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:37, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Morissette bestsinger.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:00, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Asia's Phoenix Morissette.jpg

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Morissette Amon

Why isn't this article called Morissette Amon? -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:07, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Next Big Sound?

The article says that in 2020 Morissette "debuted at number 7" on "Billboard's Next Big Sound" chart. I deleted the stuff about "first female OPM artist to do so", as the sources do not seem to say that. Moreover, our Next Big Sound article seems to indicate that this is not a Billboard chart. If it is a chart at all, but not a Billboard chart, why is it noteworthy? Where can this chart be accessed, and who says that it is of encyclopedic significance? If we cannot show this, then we should remove the information about it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:56, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

It is a Billboard chart and you can access it here. Phoenixupdate (talk) 03:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I did research about Morissette being the "first female OPM artist to do so", and I have seen articles that she is. The sources in this article, I think, didn't include that. Phoenixupdate (talk) 03:53, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. The article is coming along. The Billboard NBS chart appears not to be really related to the company Next Big Sound, except that maybe they supply the data, so I have removed the misleading wikilink. Also, if you have WP:RSs that demonstrate that her appearance on the chart was a "first" of encyclopedic importance, you can add them. However, Billboard says that the Next Big Sound chart is just a chart showing improvement during the week, so I don't see how being the first anything on that chart is an encyclopedic fact. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:01, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Bloated awards table

I have removed some of the non-notable awards. User:Phoenixupdate, why are the Push Awards notable? Listing all these audience/non-notable awards makes the article weaker. Alternatively, you could move the awards stuff to a sub-article like this one. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:35, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Songwriter

There has been some back and forth over the use of the term ‘songwriter’ to describe Morissette. She has, as I indicated in my edit summary, written the songs on her previous album (actually on several albums), so the term seems justified. IP, could you please discuss why you are trying to remove it? - SchroCat (talk) 02:32, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

In addition, sources have acknowledged that she is a songwriter. See, for example, this. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:40, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I left a series of edition summaries indicating repeatedly that adding the term songwriter, both in the short description and in the lead sentence of this article, could extend to more than 3 or 4 professions at the same time unless they want to read the MOS:ROLEBIO where the overload of the initial paragraph with diverse and varied functions should be avoided, that's why I tried to correct this just before you guys and the other user reverted several of my reviews without having discussed this first before editing. 190.167.27.164 (talk) 05:00, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

How does calling her a “singer and songwriter” breach ROLEBIO? - SchroCat (talk) 06:43, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't know, I just took the curiosity to review Wikipedia's biographical style manual to be able to comply with the issue of the short description of the articles involved dedicated to Filipino celebrities and it seems to me that the user showed me the reliable news source about of the singer and that he not added it in the opening sentence of this paragraph, so I was not allowed to delete again the short description about the excessive use of professions that should have been made. 190.167.27.164 (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

It appears that you misunderstand the rule. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:34, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

It seems not! 190.167.27.164 (talk) 00:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

If you think “singer and songwriter” breaches ROLEBIO, then you definitely have misunderstood, because it doesn’t. - SchroCat (talk) 04:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC)