Talk:Moon Knight (miniseries)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Isaac

In this article today, Variety says Isaac is only in early talks for the role, which would explain why Feige didn't confirm him at the Investor Day. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Alright, we should update the information on this article and other MCU ones. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Potentially filming

I'm doubting the strength of this source, but I'm putting it here just in case [1] Rusted AutoParts 00:45, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm not seeing this source confirm that filming on Moon Knight has begun, at least not explicitly. —El Millo (talk) 01:27, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

It is also based on an Instagram post of a fan and that is not a reliable source. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:41, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

If we go off of Feige's quote from the WandaVision press tours, he said Moon Knight would start until "a week or so" after She-Hulk. She-Hulk started on the 12th, so we are look at this starting potentially on April 19 at the earliest, but definitely by the end of the month at the latest. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Twitter user Goretity Dániel has shared a photo of the set of Moon Knight series, and thus confirmed that the filming has already started. Later I went to check the google, to see if that was true and I checked links that we can trust. It seems that filming has officially started. We just need to add the confirmation of the filming, and it will be ready to be moved to the main space. Hope there is no problem if I add the image of the logo. Ulises1126 (talk) 03:33, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

I have added the filming start info per Comicbook's article on it, and made a few adjustments. Should be ready for the mainspace, once someone can move it. I wouldn't advise adding/uploading the logo just yet as it's best to wait until the article is moved to avoid deletion of an unused file. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:41, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Change of ethnicity

Some sources write that the TV version of Specter will be the first notable Latin superhero, but nothing is mentioned in the article. And to be honest, that was one of the most important traits of the character's charm for me as a Jew myself. And to be honest, I find it rather odd since the original character's Jewish identity was an important part of his personality and backstory. So Jewish viewers are not allowed to see themselves represented on the screen, while Hispanic fans can pick up their character? I do not understand anything. Solaire the knight (talk) 05:36, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

If you have sources, please share. Your concern does seem a bit premature though, not to mention that being Hispanic / Jewish is not mutually exclusive.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 17:08, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

On a related note, the casting section describes Spector as a Caucasian Jew, which links to the article for Jews from the Caucasus rather than to Ashkenazi Jews (Jews from Central and Eastern Europe, who in the US are typically described as "Caucasian", because in that context the term is widely used interchangeably with "white"), which is in all likelihood what was intended as well as what Spector actually is. Previous attempts to edit this have been undone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.29.249 (talk) 11:16, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

With the current sources available, we can't link to the Ashkenazim as no reliable source actually says that here. But I understand what you mean and the fact the THR says a Caucasian Jewish man instead of Caucasian Jew, indicating they are using "Caucasian" as a modifier for "Jewish man" and not referring to actual Caucasian Jews. I'll remove the link to Caucasian Jews and change the wording to be as ambiguous as the source is at least. —El Millo (talk) 16:51, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Reliability

Is Screen Rant a reliable source? Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 10:38, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Long story short? Yes. But I would use more reliable sources if available.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 10:46, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

The reason I used the Screen Rant article is because it includes a screenshot of the listing on the actor's talent agency (which has since been removed), while other sources ([2], [3], [4], [5]) do not. Of course I would like to use a more reliable source, but SR is currently our best option. InfiniteNexus (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 15:40, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Removal of some Budapest Reporter info

Hello all, I have been going through some of the MCU articles such as this one to just check up on things, and some of the info that The Budapest Reporter covered in one of their articles from June, particularly shooting in the UK and potentially Jordan, the production team, and the show releasing in the first half of 2022, appear to have originated from reports from The Ronin, which is unreliable. The main article this info seems to be pulled from is here, with the Jordan info stemming from a rumor detailed here. I have BOLDly removed these bits from the article for the time being. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good, Trailblazer101! Thanks for the check up! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:40, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Possible director order

This is likely completely WP:SYNTH, but in the source for Ahmed Hafez serving as editor, the site says Hafez edited two episodes of the series, one is directed by Mohamed Diab and another by the duo Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead. while Hafez is quotes as saying he worked on episode 103 and 104. That likely means Diab, who is doing four episodes, could be directing episodes 101-103 and 106, with Benson and Moorhead doing 104 and 105. At the very least, there's a change in directors from 103 to 104. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Moon Knight trailer debuts with 75 million views in its first 24 hours

According to The Hollywood Reporter, the trailer for Marvel Studios' Moon Knight debuted with 75 million views in its first 24 hours: https://view.email.hollywoodreporter.com/?qs=52864224ed131eb5836cd7809dcc9b07982dd2649cef7527aac01c7104dd7bd3a69c04410d240f66bad5518fa412c2186e8ceca3b11354ca3639a817944f25f213ead66f0c423243.

Hoping we can add this into the series' wiki page in the marketing section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelDisney20 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Grant Curtis

In the event Grant Curtis is credited as a full EP, the series' fact sheet lists him as such, despite many of Marvel.com's articles for the series (here is the most recent per my post) that states he is a "co-executive producer". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:46, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

That's good to know. I was wondering about this myself earlier today, having seen different things said of his role. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:48, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

The USA Today piece (which is in article already) lists him as an EP too. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:36, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Nice catch! I've gone ahead and added Curtis to the EP infobox list, per the order of the fact sheet. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:08, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

How to deal with the alternate identities

So the trailer have confirmed Marc Spector (obviously) plus now Steven Grant. How do we go about listing and linking these? For the cast section, should they just be in prose in the cast section? Should they be a double bullet? Should Isaac even be credited to just "Spector" or should it be "Moon Knight"? We should establish something so editors can all be on the same page regarding this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Right now, I think we should stick to Marc Spector / Moon Knight and list the other identities in prose. If by the end of the series "Steven Grant" remains his only alternate identity (which I doubt), then we can reconsider. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:11, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

It's interesting that the new synopsis suggests that Steven Grant is the main character. I think it is too early to do anything other than list him as "Marc Spector / Moon Knight" and include any alternate personalities we learn of in prose, and then we can adjust once we see the show. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Another question about this. I'm slowly reading up on some Moon Knight comics, and looking at what's being said about the show, but is "Moon Knight" technically a personality? Like "Marc Spector" is the mercenary, full stop, "Steven Grant" (in the series) is the gift shop employee, full stop, then "Moon Knight" is the superhero/Fist of Khonshu personality. If that's the case, should we still be listing Isaac's character section as "Marc Spector / Moon Knight"? Perhaps indented bullets may ultimately be the best, saying something like:

• Isaac as Marc Spector: ... [all our other prose] Isaac also portrays Spector's alternate personalities, which include:
  • Steven Grant...
  • Moon Knight...
  • Mr. Knight...

- Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:40, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

It isn't always as clear a divide between the personalities in the comics as the series seems to be going for, so I personally am not sure exactly what the right approach will be until we start seeing the show. My interpretation before had been that Marc the mercenary is also Moon Knight the superhero, but the other personalities are mostly separate except for Mr. Knight who is somewhere in-between. It does seem like the Moon Knight suit is a costume that gets put on in the show (with a mystical twist) so "Marc Spector / Moon Knight" may still be correct. I do think it will make sense to have sub-bullets if we end up with more content than we currently have since we don't want to jam too much into one paragraph. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:12, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

I've started a discussion at Draft talk:Moon Knight (Marvel Cinematic Universe) on what the draft and corresponding redirect should be titled. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:46, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Based on things I've seen, it looks like we start with Steven, but Marc is the "main"/first identity. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

As I said in the draft talk, lets not rush into any conclusions before we actually see what is shown. As an example of adding things too early which makes things confusing, the cast section for the character lists a ton of information which hasn't even shown in episode 1. Even if sourced, we should not add information that hasn't been aired yet. This isn't because of spoilers, but because it just makes it harder to follow. This is the first two sentences: Oscar Isaac as Marc Spector / Moon Knight and Steven Grant / Mr. Knight: Marc Spector is a Jewish-American mercenary with dissociative identity disorder (DID) who becomes the conduit for the Egyptian moon god Khonshu - the bold parts are things that haven't been shown on screen. In my opinion the amount of unaired information is very inappropriate. Gonnym (talk) 11:49, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Spector and Moon Knight were both shown in episode 1. And as it appears (and this could change), but it still appears that Spector is the "main" identity, even if we've started the series with Steven. Also in the credits, Isaac is credited as Spector first. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I've created the redirect Steven Grant (Marvel Cinematic Universe) with the thought being it would eventually link to a section of the Marc Spector (Marvel Cinematic Universe) article should that ever be made. For now it redirects to an anchor in the characters list. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:27, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Listing both Spector and Grant

FYI, the production brief lists Isaac as playing "Marc Spector / Moon Knight" and "Steven Grant / Mr. Knight". So Mr. Knight looks to be the "hero" persona of Grant, not its own personality. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:59, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

In that case, I would support either keeping the formatting the same for now or changing it to say "Oscar Isaac as Marc Spector / Moon Knight and Steven Grant / Mr. Knight" but keep the paragraph content mostly as it is. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

I think we definitely have options. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:28, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Viewership

Some Viewership statistics of Moon Knight have released. This Deadline Hollywood article recently released, profiling its streaming performance: It had 1.8 million viewers on its 5-day premiere. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:04, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Episode drafts

Links to episode drafts Aerius90 (talk) 21:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

If you're asking for the link, here you go. If you're asking whether can link to that draft article here, the answer is no. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes. I was asking for the link to the draft. We can leave the links for future episode drafts here as well. Aerius90 (talk) 17:24, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

{{Marvel Cinematic Universe drafts}}. By here I meant the article. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Link for ep 2 draft please Aerius90 (talk) 08:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

All drafts will be added here: {{Marvel Cinematic Universe drafts}}. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:26, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Also they aren't hard to find. If you want to find it, just search "Draft:[the episode's title]". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Logo

Can anybody find a usable version of the updated logo (gray/white) to replace the old one (blue/gold)? If a 16:9 image can't be found, we could maybe just slap this one on a black background. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:05, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Would grabbing a screenshot from the trailer count as a valid image or no? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:09, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

The one in the trailers (with a white background) is different from the actual logo. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:12, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I see. I tried looking online, but couldn't find a proper image for it, so I think we should go ahead and use the image you posted. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:16, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@InfiniteNexus: FWIW, all of the Disney+ series have retained their "marketing" images, which don't necessarily equal the onscreen logos. I would suggest switching to the one you linked above as all of the marketing switched to the white/greyscale logo over the gold/blue current one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:07, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

But the media site also still includes the current gold/blue one for download... - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:08, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Could someone with access to Photoshop (or similar software) do that? As in, put this on a black background, resize it appropriately, and then upload it here. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:15, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Knight (miniseries) logo.jpg&diff=1081671893&oldid=1022079254 Done. —El Millo (talk) 22:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Awesome. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:00, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Premise

The premise on Disney+ mentions Steven Grant discovering he shares a body with mercenary Marc Spector, not the other way around, that is the identity watchers of the series are introduced to first, and that is the actual main character of the two so far. Dfgab (talk) 12:10, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@Dfgab The discussion here could also point out about writing the Premise as well and based on the discussion, WP:NORUSH until the series ends to determine the writing of the cast list and premise Centcom08 (talk) 12:20, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but it doesn't, and the premise does focus on Steven, even if the latter half of the series does give some of the other identities more focus. Dfgab (talk) 12:23, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

WP:COPYVIO. – SirDot (talk) 16:04, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Episode posters

The "character" posters Marvel is releasing seem to relate to story elements of the episodes, namely the goldfish one can be used for episode one. The next one released, featuring a cupcake, apparently ties in strongly to the fourth episode, so likely can be used for that article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Here's a Steven nametag one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:02, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93 Marvel also released a poster of the scarab beetle. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 22:55, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

That is likely for the third, fifth, or sixth episode, since the name tag is a more clear link to this episode. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:58, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

That scarab beetle also appeared in the first episode, so I agree the name tag is the one most related to the second episode thus far. The links between episodes and posters can be revised as they are released. —El Millo (talk) 23:24, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I think we just use the most appropriate one for each episode so far (goldfish for 101, name tag for 102) and then adjust at the end if there is an issue. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:28, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo @Adamstom.97 @Favre1fan93 Marvel recently released this poster of the star map. This is definitely the poster for episode 3, as episode 3 did involve the usage of a star map. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 23:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Dcdiehardfan:, "@ and linking the username" doesn't ping. You can use the {{Ping}} or {{re}} templates. – SirDot (talk) 00:11, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Yep. That poster is already in the infobox on the draft for when the article is moved to the mainspace. -- Zoo (talk) 00:32, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good, just making sure it's seen. So, as far as posters go, are we going to use the name tag one for Episode 2? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Looks that way. -- Zoo (talk) 03:56, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for letting me know how to ping (I pinged through the visual edit, not source), though I did receive the notifications that the pings went through successfully. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 01:52, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

No problem @Dcdiehardfan:. Od-ing since this is becoming quite long. – SirDot (talk) 16:05, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @SirDot, though I'm not sure what Od-ing means.Speaking of which, Marvel released another poster which seems to be a stone statue of Khonshu (probably due to the events of Episode 3, no spoilers). I was just wondering, will this be the poster for episode 3 or will the star map one be? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 23:13, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Personally I feel either would work since both posters are big parts of the episode. Just based on what's featured in each poster, I like the new one best, but I won't complain if the other is used. -- Zoo (talk) 23:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I think the star chart is more representative of 103 and the statue is likely to be important in 104, but we said already that we can adjust later if we need to. Because of the release pattern for these posters it seems like there may be more than six of them coming in which case we will need to look at all of them later and decide which is the most appropriate for each episode rather than being completely certain as each episode comes out. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:39, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Moon phase in the credits

What's the best section to note that the credits are updating the moon phase each episode as well as featuring the location of the episode (admittedly that's less notable)? Or is it not worth adding anywhere? -- Zoo (talk) 22:57, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer I do not think they are worth mentioning in the article since they do not have an impact on the show's story. Centcom08 (talk) 23:18, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

It should be relevant in the design section with more info about the title sequence. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:35, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Design would be appropriate, yes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:19, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer It seems other editors agree on including it but for me, let us wait until the series finishes before adding it to the article. Who knows what will happen with the main-on-end credit scene designs once all the six episodes are released... Centcom08 (talk) 02:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer I agree about waiting. That said, it is interesting to note that moon phases did directly affect Moon Knight's abilities in the comics for a brief period. Maybe there should be a section pointing to parallels with the comic where it could be added? 96.245.205.88 (talk) 19:48, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

[Spoilers!] Taweret in Episode 4

I did some research for episode 4 of Moon Knight, and I noticed that the plot summary stated that the figure at the end of the episode as a hippo-headed figure. While this is true, I saw some sources confirm that that figure was indeed Taweret, who is the Egyptian goddess of childbirth. The Marvel.com episode log officially confirms this ("They press forward. Suddenly, Marc and Steven are startled by another deity who emerges—Taweret.") Other sources also seem to report that figure as Taweret, such as /Film and Esquire, though they probably may have done so using the Marvel.com episode log. In case a credit is needed for her, she is portrayed by Antonia Salib, per this TVLine article. Will this be added into the actual plot summary or as a foot note, which states that she was identified afterwards, similarly to how Kang was in the Loki article? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:23, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

We only reveal identities when the shows do. Episode 4 did not do that. You can see the change in the edit history summaries CreecregofLife (talk) 03:26, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Echoing what CreecregofLife said, Alex21 did a reasonable revert on this. We did not refer to Marc and Moon Knight in episode 1 as "Marc Spector" and "Moon Knight", but rather "Grant's reflection" and "a cloaked warrior". Marc's identified in episode 2, while so far I don't think the Moon Knight suit has been identified as "Moon Knight". The "hippopotamus-headed figure" is identified as Tawret in the cast and castings sections, so that's fine, and she is likely to appear next episode. — SirDot (talk) 03:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Ahh, I see. That makes more sense now, so, it will be noted later on then should it be identified in future episodes? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 06:38, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Can I add a note stating it is Taweret? Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 15:18, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

@Seaweed Brain1993: I think let us wait for the fifth episode to be released since Taweret might introduce herself and then we can add the name on the episode 5 summary. Centcom08 (talk) 16:21, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

ok Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 03:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Did you read any of the above conversation? CreecregofLife (talk) 17:08, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Dissociative identity disorder (DID)?

I added a "citation needed" on the statement that Steven Grant and Marc Spectre have "dissociative identity disorder (DID)". I, for example, figured, based on my viewing of the first 4 episodes, that the Grant/Marc characters were in a similar situation to Rick Jones and Captain Mar-Vell, where the one NOT in control of the body was relegated to the Negative Zone or whatever.

Moreover "dissociative identity disorder (DID)" is more than a description -- it is a diagnosis. So, no original research. Please provide a reference. Madman (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Spector and Grant are reliably sourced to be suffering from DID throughout the article. You also, using your own research, figured that the [Steven] Grant/Marc [Spector] characters were in a similar situation to Rick Jones and Captain Mar-Vell, ... — SirDot (talk) 03:02, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Please see references #1, #2, #3, and #10, to name a few. Citations are not needed in the lead section if the information is already sourced in the article body, per WP:LEADCITE. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:06, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

"Arthur Harrow" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Arthur Harrow and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 10#Arthur Harrow until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:52, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Audience Viewership section

I was wondering if there would be a section under reception for "Audience viewership". This was on other previous MCU show articles such as WV, FATWS, and Loki, but not under Hawkeye and What If..? I was wondering why this was the case, considering there is data available for the MK viewership, or if there is some policy of which I was not aware of?

https://www.businessinsider.com/marvel-moon-knight-is-the-biggest-show-in-the-world-2022-4

https://www.techradar.com/news/marvel-tv-shows-arent-convincing-new-users-to-sign-up-to-disney-plus

https://variety.com/2022/streaming/news/moon-knight-ratings-disney-plus-nielsen-streaming-top-10-1235242730/

https://deadline.com/2022/04/moon-knight-first-weekend-viewership-1234994354/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/moon-knight-bridgerton-streaming-rankings-march-28-april-3-1235137749/ Dcdiehardfan (talk) 19:09, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

The info is on the episode pages for at least Hawkeye and MK (except episodes 5 and 6 as it's not available yet). Not sure if it should just stay there or not, but if we want to move it to the series articles, all the sources are already available to use as needed. -- Zoo (talk) 19:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

I've made a general discussion regarding audience viewership for all the D+ series that would affect this approach, here: Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series#Audience viewership on Disney+ series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:01, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Episode art posters

Would it make sense to use the weekly episode art posters in infoboxes for the episodes as opposed to the posters like we currently have for The Goldfish Problem? Mostly bringing it up because all 6 posters are part of 1 larger piece and I feel like it would make sense to use them. We also use art posters for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier infoboxes.

All the posters:

• Episode 1
• Episode 2
• Episode 3
• Episode 4
• Episode 5
• Episode 6
• Connected posters

-- Zoo (talk) 23:00, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm interested to see what others think. I like that there is one for each episode and that they align with the events of the episodes much more than the FaWS art series posters do, especially when we are just guessing at the moment which of the other posters go with each episode. However, we didn't have traditional posters for FaWS when we decided to go with the art series poster but we do for this show. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

When it comes to the other posters, there were 2 released each week for each episode, so whatever week they were released is the episode they belong to. Usually 1 was released the day before the episode and 1 the day after. -- Zoo (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I actually like these individual art posters more than the "character"/item posters, especially since we got numerous of those, of which multiple could be applied to each episode. I'd be in agreement with switching these around. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:05, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Are there any objections or is it fine for me to update the episode 1 image? -- Zoo (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I think you should go for it. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:56, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done. Not sure if the size of the image should be bigger or smaller though. -- Zoo (talk) 00:12, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Looks a bit small to me, perhaps bigger? — SirDot (talk) 02:01, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

We are supposed to reduce the size for non-free images, I think it is fine. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:33, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

One dimension is the same as the previous poster. The other one is smaller, but I kept the poster to scale when reducing it, so it's just to do with the original dimensions being different than the other poster. -- Zoo (talk) 03:59, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Make sure infobox captions are updated as well, as well as adding any relevant info about the posters to the Marketing sections if they exist. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:32, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Scarlet Scarab

I don't think the character of Layla should have the Scarlet Scarab alias in the cast section when she was never called like that in the series or even the credits. This is something similar to what happened with Wanda Maximoff, who was called the Scarlet Witch in credits and promotional material but was not actually called like that until WandaVision.

However I'm not against maintaining the info saying her superhero appearance is inspired or based on Scarlet Scarab. AxGRvS (talk) 18:53, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I would agree with removing her "/ Scarlet Scarab", especially since we have material from Diab or more or less said it was something Marvel did in giving her that name. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:29, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

I disagree. Official word from Marvel supersedes any comments made by filmmakers. Outside of the Marvel.com source, this tweet from Marvel Studios also calls her the Scarlet Scarab. I do not recall Marvel ever calling Wanda the Scarlet Witch prior to WandaVision, unless you're talking about the Legos and action figures which do not come directly from Marvel. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Wanda was called the Scarlet Witch in marketing (trailers, spots, etc) and credits of films such as Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War or Avengers: Infinity War but the first time she was actually called like that within media was in WandaVision AxGRvS (talk) 21:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93: Btw there's a similar discussion on the She-Hulk: Attorney at Law article about the term "Smart Hulk", I would like to see your opinion there too, thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by AxGRvS (talk • contribs) 21:35, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit War Prevention: Listing format for Oscar Isaac's three roles

@Pumpoffed: This editor laid out a format that includes three separate indentions of Oscar Isaac's three roles, using a colon twice for indention which is not suggested by MOS:TVCAST when dealing with line breaks. Personally, the prosing is enough to describe each of the characters and their development throughout the production of the series.

To avoid an edit war, kindly attain a consensus first on how to deal with listing Isaac's roles. Thank you so much. Centcom08 (talk) 00:28, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

@Centcom08: What would recommend? That big long paragraph IS wordy and confusing and mixing-back-and-forth as it currently is. Pumpoffed (talk) 10:27, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Being long is not the issue if it will lay out the character development during the production of the series. And I don't see any "mixing-back-and-forth" as you claim. The first sentence only explains the role and the sentences moving forward explain the chronological order of how the staff came up with the character. If we are going to follow your format then every Isaac's role (except for Jake Lockley) would have the last sentence about Carlos Sanchez and David Jake Rodriguez roles, which would be repetitive. Centcom08 (talk) 10:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

@Centcom08: No, it would just have the Carlos Sanchez part. He played young St4even and Marc, but David Jake Rodriguez only played teen Marc. Also Marc, Steven and Jake should have separate sections at Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the wording there is INCREDIBLY insensitive and offensive to DID. Pumpoffed (talk) 11:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

So you are suggesting when separating those actors' roles, in the Moon Knight's story POV, Carlos Sanchez plays a childhood Marc who develops an alter named Steven, but when he grows up to look like the actor David Jake Rodriguez the issue with DID is gone and will come back again when he grows up again to look like Oscar Isaac. That is the reason why the sentence "Carlos Sanchez and David Jake Rodriguez portray Marc as a child and teenager, respectively" (without a mention of Sanchez' role as Steven since it is not credited) is enough to be the concluding sentence of the beautifully laid-out paragraph. Marc Spector will remain the main character who has different alters. If we are going to list them separately then you are suggesting the three alters are being played physically separate by Oscar Isaac. He is not like Tom Hiddleston's Loki and President Loki. Centcom08 (talk) 11:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

@Centcom08: What? No, he just did not portray Steven onscreen, or at all. He could have, yes but did not. You have seen this series, I assume. Steven and Marc are both main characters, but different characters sharing a body, with Jake being the guest this season. Hell, they had separate souls. Pumpoffed (talk) 12:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, "being played physically separate by Oscar Isaac." Did you see the last three episodes? Where he portrayed them physically separate and interacting with each other? Pumpoffed (talk) 12:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

The changes are MOS:ACCESS formatting issues, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility#Lists. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

There was discussion early on regarding formatting of Isaac's bit. I don't think it needs to change, but here is how one would go about properly formatting it for ACCESS compliance. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

That's the bitch: ACCESS. @Centcom08: Something like that, @Favre1fan93:'s thing, cleaned up a bit. Can we test that out? Pumpoffed (talk) 18:40, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, that is the cleanest formatting style. When I mentioned about Tom Hiddleston's character from Loki, I immediately thought about that style but don't bother to discuss it further since I am busy with the election here in our country today. Kindly do what Favre1fan93 has suggested for the style. Centcom08 (talk) 23:10, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Done and done! I hope the election goes well. Pumpoffed (talk) 23:33, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

• Checkuser note Pumpoffed is a checkuser  Confirmed sock.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 19:21, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

And guess who the sockmaster is, Favre. I don't think they're ever going to stop. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:57, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

TotalTruthTeller is probably thinking of a new name to sockpuppet with right now. — SirDot (talk) 22:04, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Cast in lead

Hi SirDot, is there any particular reason you believe we need 14 cast members listed in the lead? — HTGS (talk) 21:31, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

The cast list is based on the actors who appear in the main-on-end credits sequence and should not be changed. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

We don’t need every actor from the credits to be listed in the lead; as it currently is the list gives WP:UNDUE emphasis for a lead paragraph and is far too long. Readers who wish to know the full cast list can find it easily in the body. I’m happy to work with you on finding a happy middle ground for which actors to include, but statements like “the cast list … should not be changed” are unhelpful and counter to the way Wikipedia works. — HTGS (talk) 01:04, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

The lead should cover all of the main/starring cast members. Otherwise you're actually giving UNDUE to select members based on what criteria? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:21, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

There are many different criteria we could use. We could check independent reliable sources for which actors they list more often; we could have an arbitrary cutoff of number-of-episodes (I started at 3 or more) until we get the list to a more manageable length; we could prefer cast who are independently notable (blue-linked). There are plenty of approaches that other Wikipedia articles employ if we did want to cut the sea of blue down. But I gather there’s enough support for the full list that I won’t push it at this point. — HTGS (talk) 23:07, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

We have guidelines about following the credits for film and TV cast lists specifically to avoid discussions such as this, where editors try to come up with different criteria to only include the actors that they think are important. The list is determined based on the credits, which is an objective measure, just like every other TV article. No discussion required. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

@Adamstom.97 this continued attitude of “no discussion required” isn’t helpful on Wikipedia, and I find your reliance on primary sourcing unusual and problematic. But I’d appreciate if you could point me to the specific guidelines that recommend using primary sources for determining which cast to list in the lead. — HTGS (talk) 01:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

There is widespread consensus for determining TV cast lists based on onscreen credits, per MOS:TVCAST. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Adamstom.97, I think you’re misunderstanding me. I don’t want to remove the cast list from the article! I just want to shorten the cast that gets listed in the lead. — HTGS (talk) 08:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

He does understand you, but there's widespread consensus for determining TV cast lists based on onscreen credits, which includes all those listed in the lead section and not just some of them. —El Millo (talk) 17:28, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

No, that sort of consensus really doesn’t include lead sections. You’d have to actually show me the consensus to prove that point. I’m not sure why some users are so committed to a standard that is so rarely applied elsewhere, but it's clear that there is consensus here on this talk page to list the entire cast, so I’m not going to push that, but just know that that decision is not backed up by consensus, guidelines or convention elsewhere. (See lead sections of Ozark, Boardwalk Empire, Gilmore Girls, 24, Pride and Prejudice or Atlanta.) — HTGS (talk) 20:45, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Keeping the cast list in the lead consistent with the rest of the article is standard for all MCU articles (of which there are many) at least. Just because you can find examples where this is not done does not mean we should change the standard approach here. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:47, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

If you are acting on a standard for MCU articles, you should have said so. I'm not familiar with those standards, and I appreciate that there is probably a decent distinction between styling for regular TV shows and that of MCU shows—which must have significant parallels to the films. My examples obviously keep their style under MOS:TV, not WP:MCU, so they will naturally have some differences. For the record, I still hold that 14 actors in the lead is too many for a show of this scale, and I dislike the emphasis given to primary sources, but I am clearly outnumbered on those opinions. — HTGS (talk) 04:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Agents of SHIELD's 13 actors mentioned are over its seven seasons, but it's probably therefore less comparable CreecregofLife (talk) 04:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)