Talk:Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur

Name

Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur or just Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur? It was moved to the current title on Feb 10 by User:Kp2016rockin, and now User:JDDJS wants to move it back. User:Trailblazer101 also wanted it moved to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (TV series). As this is not uncontroversial, I've twice declined a speedy deletion of a redirect to allow a move. Please discuss to reach consensus. Fences&Windows 22:28, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hmm. The official poster seemed to call it "Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur," as does the Twitter profile of one of the supervising directors, but... an article on the official blog calls it "Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" as does Deadline, another Marvel article, as does Titmouse, and Flying Bark. So, I think the current name should stay. Also, we need some better sources for the page. Historyday01 (talk) 03:40, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:22, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 13 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. WP:SNOW closure. Moved to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (closed by non-admin page mover) Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:11, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

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Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur → Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur – It's considered standard policy to not include Marvel in the title for Marvel television series. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter (TV series), Runaways (TV series) and Avengers Assemble (TV series) just to show a few examples. No reason as to why this should be considered any different. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 21:27, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd be fine with changing it to "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur", at this point, as long as the first sentence says this instead:

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, also known as Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, is an American animated television series based on the characters of the same name by Marvel Comics.

After all, Marvel calls it by "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" as does Collider, ComicBook, Gizmodo, CBR, The Verge, Los Angeles Magazine while Disney calls it "Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" as does CBR, IGN, Newsweek, CNET, to name a few sources. I think "Moon Girl" may be another name, but it may just be a shorthand, and is not commonly used. So, in sum, yes, I support the move.--Historyday01 (talk) 13:39, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Comment. Considering the previous discussion this topic, a while back, @Fences&Windows, @User:Kp2016rockin, and @User:Trailblazer101, your thoughts on the proposal by JDDJS would definitely be helpful so we can reach a consensus. Historyday01 (talk) 00:40, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Move: Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur should be the title per WP:COMMONNAME and since this appears to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Turns out the "(TV series)" DAB was not needed from the start. The lede should start with "Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, or simply Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur," given it is officially used by Disney+ and on the main Marvel.com page, much like the other Marvel Television series as noted above, and is still being referred to as such based on this Deadline interview from two days ago, so it doesn't appear this is a Hit-Monkey situation where they dropped the "Marvel's" branding. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Move: Having watched the show, it's apparent that the Marvel logo is not necessarily part of the title, but just a branding thing. Voicebox64 (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Support move. As with similar cases, "Marvel's" is not part of the common name. O.N.R. ^(talk) 05:24, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Support move. Per above votes. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 11:28, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Support Move: Per above. (came back to Wiki just to comment this) kpgamingz (rant me) 13:39, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Support per the nominator's rationale. ╠╣uw [talk] 15:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List The Episodes By Production Order

Due to the fact that "Moon Girl's Day Off" aired out of order with "Goodnight, Moon Girl", to stick with continuity I think the episodes should be listed by production rather than broadcast. Given that Futurama is listed as this due to the same issue, I think production order should apply to this show as well. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 15:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I can agree with that. That sounds like a good idea. Historyday01 (talk) 02:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Disney+ is listing the episodes by the more preferred production order, which means yeah, production order is more preferable than broadcast, Not immediately switching the order until a consensus is reached. This is all just my opinion by the way. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 20:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Right. I think they should definitely be listed by the preferred production order, especially since this isn't the only series Disney has done this type of stuff, with airing episodes in the wrong order. The same happened with Steven Universe too, as shown on List of Steven Universe episodes. Historyday01 (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Steven Universe does not do production order for its episode list, but rather chronological order like with the List of DuckTales (2017 TV series) episodes. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 15:41, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I see. In this case, I think we should do production order, as they were aired out of order. Historyday01 (talk) 16:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm not clear on what constitutes "airing" order here, given that most viewers are going to see them in app order now that the entire season has been released. At least as of right now, on the Disney+ app the episode ordering is slightly different than the current article's order, with Goodnight, Moon Girl as episode 7 and Moon Girl's Day Off as episode 10. Fluffycritter (talk) 03:51, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

UPDATE: The order changed to the wrong broadcast order. Why?! BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I guess because they didn't want to "confuse" anyone? Historyday01 (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I think someone did the request for Disney just so he could excuse that being in broadcast order is considered okay thinking there is no consensus going by production. I'm not sure how that request is implemented, but Disney might've listened to that user. This leads to unsuspecters preferring broadcast rather than production, but continuity-wise, it should by production order similar to Futurama to avoid continuity errors, but due to the lack of reliable sources at this time, currently its doubtful will ever list the episodes by production order. Will have to wait patiently for the sources to get that consensus needed. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 01:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

UPDATE: Episodes 7 and 10 are once again arranged in production order. 69.116.88.150 (talk) 19:17, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

They don’t appear to be. If one episode has literal clips from the other episode wouldn’t that give away the fact that the second episode would come earlier in the production order? 67.85.13.55 (talk) 04:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

actually the listing of the production order now seems accurate but why not just list it in that order, especially since Disney plus has it in that same order, and if they ever actually put it out on dvd, it would clearly also be in the production order as otherwise the flow of episodes doesn’t make sense 67.85.13.55 (talk) 04:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Season 2 page erased

So... why exactly was the season 2 page erased? BestDaysofMusic (talk) 02:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

@BestDaysofMusic: As explained in @BaldiBasicsFan's reversion, such a content split ought to garner consensus at the talk page first, rather than bypassing the natural discussion process through an AfC. The AfC reviewer should have noted this was a content split that needed to be discussed first rather than accepting it. I will note that independent notability must be met by the WP:GNG should a split be agreed upon, though I would recommend working on getting the first season article done first and then moving to the second one to justify the existence of separate articles and thus a split. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the List of Gravity Falls episodes article, the seasons have their own articles, so it might make sense to create separate pages for the two separate seasons of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. However, as I and 101 stated, a consensus as such is required. It’s just two seasons and this isn’t like The Simpsons or Family Guy where those shows have multiple seasons. At best, the entire episode list can be separated into its own article, but per MOS:TVSPLIT, the series needs to reach between 50 and 60 episodes. Right now, there is no season 3 announced, and the current episode order is 40. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 04:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Cancelled

According to an insider with connections to the crew members of the show, Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur has been cancelled. The source currently points to a tweet by said insider Owlphibia, but I do not feel confident using a Twitter link as a viable source anymore. Tumblr-based website Disney TV Animation (don't know if it's affiliated with Disney, somebody please verify) expands on the cancellation, in which they now employ unusual strategies to predict a show's success such as requiring a great showing on Disney+ to earn a season renewal. As of this post, there are no reliable sources like a Disney press release or sites such as Deadline, Hollywood Reporter, Entertainment Weekly or the like. If anyone can find a much better source, please post and cite. ElMeroEse (talk) 03:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

- Owlphibia Post: https://x.com/owlphibia/status/1847138399100022984

- Disney TV Animation Post: https://disneytvanimation.com/post/764728407687905280/moon-girl-and-devil-dinosaur-is-cancelled-after-2 ElMeroEse (talk) 03:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I heard about that on Twitter too and saw this by a storyboarder, Gabi Rode, who worked at Disney [apparently NOT on the show though], along with some others who worked on the show here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here seem to say the Owlphibia post is legitimate. I did find a MovieWeb post but... they cite the Owlphibia post as evidence and say the storyboarder Gabi Rode gave the evidence "weight." Otherwise, there were reports that a season 3 was in the works earlier this year. Otherwise, I haven't seen ANY tweets from Steve Loter or Pilar Flynn, the two showrunners, about this... so I don't think there's enough from reliable to say the Owlphibia claim is legitimate at this point. Historyday01 (talk) 14:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Steve Loter, whose tweet is quoted in the pro-season 3 tweet you mentioned, actually said there that season 3 hadn't been greenlight, so that dosen't mean is 100% in the works, just that they had scripts but they still need for Marvel and Disney to tell them if they'll move forward with a third season. BestDaysofMusic (talk) 10:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

In any case, I still think we need some better sources at this point... Historyday01 (talk) 13:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I’m sorry but this reasoning is nonsensical. Why are you acting like you know better than all these people who actually work at Disney. You can’t just link a bunch of people who work at Disney and basically tell them “you’re wrong because I said so”. Someone who worked on the show has even called out this behaviour. “[It’s] like going to a funeral and telling me my favorite family member isn't dead”. And no, scripts being written does not mean anything. Both The Ghost and Molly McGee and Hailey’s On It had scripts written for seasons that were never made. I see no reason to believe the sources are insufficient other than the first stage of grief; denial. Tylerfunf555 (talk) 16:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

As I said before, the sources ARE insufficient. Since Twitter had thrown all verification measures out the window (except for some limited accounts), tweets can be even more unreliable than they were in before. They are self-published sources. I expect there WILL be more articles on this in the future, and at this point, the sources I mentioned and those in the original post, aren't enough. We need to have a high standard of sources on here and cannot be promoting misinformation. I'm only trying to use the BEST sources possible, not judge anyone in any manner. I have seen so many bad sources used for pages before over the years. Since this is clearly contentious, as this discussion evidences, we need the best, most reliable, source possible, per what is stated at WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:RSSELF, and WP:SPS, at the very minimum. I did another search and found two other articles here, here which STILL cited the same exact tweet from Owlphibia as evidence (and Gabi Rhodes' tweet). That tweet should NOT be given so much weight. I still stand by needing a better source.Historyday01 (talk) 18:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not, these are people who work at Disney. Do you really think every single one of these accounts are lying about working at Disney? If these sources are insufficient, Wikipedia really needs to reconsider their guidelines. I thought this website was supposed to be a source for information, not a way for people to live in their fantasy lands where they can just say no to news they don’t like. Tylerfunf555 (talk) 23:22, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

This discussion is clearly turning to not be productive with you, unfortunately. The existing sources are Twitter links. If it was from Loter or Flynn, it would have much more weight than coming from a storyboarder. I don't doubt that those I cited work at Disney. More than that, not allowing these sources isn't about saying "no to news...[I] don't like" but rather that the sources noted above are insufficient. Otherwise, I will keep looking for good, reliable sources on this, as the reported cancellation (of the articles I've read, they seem to hedge it, either calling it "reported" or something of the sort) is a big deal considering the cancellation of Hailey's On It! recently and the fact it would go against the company's stated commitment to diverse stories. While saying all of that, I refuse to add insufficient (and unreliable) sources here. Just look at how the cancellation of Hailey's On It! was sourced on that page: an article in TVLine. If something like that IS available for this series (there is on TVLIne article already cited which notes that Season 2 Part 2 will be premiering sometime early next year), which I can reasonable state it WILL be, then it will be added into the article. Otherwise, no. Besides, if the series DOES end in early 2025, then the end-date of the series will be added to the article at that time.Historyday01 (talk) 01:50, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree. It could be like how a Disney TVA employee said the Darkwing Duck reboot was cancelled only for Tad Stones, who is consulting on the reboot, to say the opposite years later. They could just be misinformed. BestDaysofMusic (talk) 11:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. And the series might be not be technically cancelled, but just not renewed. A lot of the articles I read used a lot of weasel words, so that's part of the reason I'm hesitant in addition to what you stated earlier. Historyday01 (talk) 14:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC) UPDATE: I reversed a recent reply by Tylerfunf555 here, noting "not only is this comment hostile, but it is clearly not conducive to further discussion. I think this user may have a connection to the subject [i.e. they may be an animator for Disney themselves], based on their arguments here, and clearly are not posting here in good faith." Notably, they claimed they don't "care about what the articles say" (this says everything and implies they are possibly being a bit disingenuous) and incorrectly claimed that I am doing "mental gymnastics to avoid accepting the truth" (all because I am insisting there be strong reliable sources), among other claims. Clearly, they are not coming to this argument in good faith, as far as I can tell (due to their responses up this point), although I have done my best to approach them in good faith. I stand by everything else I've said in this discussion up to this point. I recommend said user step away from their keyboard for a bit and cool off.Historyday01 (talk) 19:13, 23 October 2024 (UTC) Update: I found another source, but all they cited were tweets (from a series director Samantha Suyi Lee, storyboarders Sixiao Tang and Jules Bridgers, and Disney animator Gabi Rode), which fall into the self-published sources guideline... sigh. Historyday01 (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2024 (UTC) Update #2: One user, @User:BaldiBasicsFan, added this article with the sentence "On October 22, 2024, Disney Channel cancelled the series after two seasons" an I removed said claim, noting, in part, "This cites a tweet of someone who didn't even work on the show. As such, removed....I want to use the *best* sources possible. I know a LOT of articles are jumping on this, but they are *almost exclusively* citing tweets, which are self-published sources by definition." I just looked for other articles and couldn't find anything with reliable sources.Historyday01 (talk) 20:43, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Do you feel the Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur article might be a candidate for protection, especially following the multiple edits addressing its cancellation? ElMeroEse (talk) 23:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I do. Historyday01 (talk) 01:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

As an update, I removed related sources from the main page as they cited the SAME Owlphibia post. Historyday01 (talk) 00:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)