Talk:Monica Seles/Archive 1

Archive 1

Origin

The link attached (2), says nothing about her origin. Why is it referenced then? Also, she might be of Hungarian origin, but then again, using that rule, almost every American will not be American... She played for Yugoslavia when she won majority of her titles, so I believe that is what should be put there: Yugoslav/American of Hungarian origin. I think that is fair, no? - Tennis dude

Seems pointless to emphasise Seles' ethnic Hungarian origin, after all we don't ascribe Basque origin to Arantxa Sanchez Vicario or the Aboriginal roots of Evonne Goolagong Cawley. --User:Tracer bullet 16:44, 26 Aug 2004

Emphasise? I don't think it's emphasized... it seems appropriate for the start of the chronology to say who her parents were. --Joy [shallot] 16:09, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Seems like an encyclopedia entry about a famous tennis player should focus on her *tennis* and not on her ethnicity. In any case, Seles played for Yugoslavia up until the stabbing, and for the United States after the stabbing. She is never described as a Hungarian-American AFAIK, and for good reason. --tracer_bullet 17:34, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

One sentence is hardly an emphasis, and I think her fellow Hungarians and Yugoslavians are all very proud of her. It's alright to mention it. .... Has Seles won anything while playing for Yugoslavia ? This would be sth new to add to the article. -- PFHLai 19:19, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

Seles won *everything* playing for Yugoslavia. 8 out of her 9 Grand Slam titles and her entire stint as the no.1 player in the world took place under that flag. In any case, I don't really feel like embarking on an edit war but that bit of information is completely superfluous, and it sort of misleads the reader. Like I said I may as well go around changing the articles to include pointless comments about Cawley's Aboriginal roots, or Sabatini's Italian background. --tracer_bullet 19:31, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

By "playing for Yugoslavia", I meant "as a member of the Yugoslavian team". -- PFHLai 19:36, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

She did win the 1991 Hopman Cup in tandem with Goran Prpic. Never played Fed Cup for Yugoslavia and was widely criticised for it. --tracer_bullet 19:57, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

<sarcasm>Don't forget to also delete any reference to Iran and Armenia from the Andre Agassi article.</sarcasm> --Cantus 00:10, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

As PHFLai has already stated, one sentence is not an emphasis. In order to provide a better balance between that sentence and the tennis content — please add more tennis content! --Joy [shallot]

Yes, please add tennis content. The info on the 1991 Hopman Cup and the Fed cup will be excellent additions on Seles' page. BTW, do Hopman Cup & Fed Cup have their own Wikipage ? Can't find them. Someone in the know may want to make them. -- PFHLai 19:46, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)

In my opinion, it's useful to include ethnic background. Why should we hide it? --webkid 09:27, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

She is not born in Novi Sad, but in Ostojicevo, a place in Banat, Vojvodina, Yugoslavia. My grandmother used to be a friend with her parents, before they moved to Novi Sad. I`d like to have some harder evidence, but I can just make a poll in her hometown or we could ask Monika. Neuboysha (talk) 16:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

grunting

Did Katerina Maleeva really complain about the grunting ? I thought it was Nathalie Tauziat (92 Wimbledon ?) and Jennifer Capriati (one year in San Diego) who complained to WTA officials... -- PFHLai 16:04, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

I think it was Tauziat in the 92 Wimbledon QF, which was then taken and spun by Navratilova in order to gain a psychological edge in the SF, by complaining to the chair umpire that Seles sounded like "a stuck pig". Seles won that match, but in the final focussed all of her energy on not grunting, and consequently got routed by Graf. --tracer_bullet 17:35, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

An excerpt from a fan site ([1]): "All the tennis fans know that Monica has something very unique and special: her grunts. Many players are mad because they think these grunts are a way to bother her opponents. In fact, Monica only wants to get more power on each shot. The first player who officially asked Monica not to grunt was Katerina Maleeva. Since then, this grunting story became a stupid mental fight against Monica.". --webkid 18:57, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How come there's nothing in the article about her being so vocal ? I'm told that it is she who started it. --Jerome Potts (talk) 01:59, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

languages

Does anyone know which languages Seles speaks? Obviously English and Hungarian. Does she speak Serbian? Esbullin this is extremly stupid question....

She speaks serbian --Goran.Smith2 11:51, 8 June 2006

she was born in Serbia (in Novi Sad) and lived there for at least 17 years, if she didn't speak Serbian then i don't know how she managed her teenage days. so i guess the logical answer is yes.

i met monika seleš in the 80's , she was fluent in her childhood days in Serbian and Hungarian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.220.53 (talk) 15:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

about the lake

About the Monica Seles lake?

is there actually a lake named after her in india?!? Can i know where in india n where can i read about it cuz ive searched the net and found nothing

She is not...

... a Serbian or Hungarian tennis player, she is only Yugoslav and American tennis player. --Goran.Smith2 16:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yugoslavia as a country name has been officially abolished in 2003, so the statement above shall be corrected to thath she _was_ Yugoslav player (before 2003).

Stop reverting the first sentence, Seles is not a Serb

I changed the first sentence today here from stating "Seles is a Serbian-born ..." to stating "Seles is a Hungarian-American"... tennis player. This is the standard form on wikipedia and it accurately identifies her nationality (American) and ethnicity (Hungarian). This was reverted to Serbian-American, a completely false statement as Seles has never had Serbian nationality (it was Yugoslavia) and is not an ethnic Serb. I added a citation from an interview she gave to clear up the subject and hopefully prevent nationalist reverts.

M. Seles Quote "Question: You grew up as part of an ethnic minority in Yugoslavia, a nation that no longer exists, and at various times you've had to travel under assumed names, fearing politically motivated violence. What is your "official" identity? Seles response: I wouldn't want to revisit the problems caused by ethnic issues. My background is that I'm Hungarian — it's the language I speak with my mom and brother. But really, I see myself as international. I still have friends I speak Yugoslavian [sic] with, and I have my entire American life. So I guess I'm a combination of those three things."

At no point does she call herself a Serb and she wouldn't under most circumstances be considered one. Her ethnic background is Hungarian and her nationality is American - which makes Hungarian-American the most accurate way to describe her. Her birth place in Novi Sad (then Yugoslavia and not independent Serbia anyway) is mentioned in the biography section and considering when she was born that give her a connection with the former Yugoslavia and not to Serbia as a nation. Please stop reverting. --Dreko 22:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi everyone, someone should protect this article from editing since someone constantly changes Monica's ethnicity from Hungarian-American to Serbian.

If users reverting it to HUN-AM did under an username, or avoided sockpuppets, they would avoid misunderstanding like mine (I reverted it as I seemed it was vandalism). Bye. --Attilios 21:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

As of 7th June, 2007, Seles is also a Hungarian citizen officially. So she definitely _is_ American-Hungarian. Yugoslavia ceased to exist long ago so there is no point to include this former country in her nationality anymore. I wonder she also possess Serbian citizenship yet? (Lawn_Walker)

I think some people are spending too much time fighting about Monica’s ethnic background and nationality. No doubt her ethnic background is Hungarian. Re her nationality, she was born in Novi Sad, city in Serbia, at that time it was part of SFR Yugoslavia. By birth, she automatically became citizen of Serbia and Yugoslavia. (This part is a little bit complicated but in SFR Yugoslavia, everybody was citizen of one of 6 federal republics and based on that the person was citizen of Yugoslavia)

Monica moved to the USA in 1986 but she didn’t take US citizenship until 1994. Instead of that, she continued playing under the flag of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (latter Serbia and Montenegro) after the disintegration of SFR Yugoslavia. She decided to take US citizenship only after she was stabled with a boning knife during a tournament in Hamburg and the person who tried to kill her received a shameful two-year suspended sentence.

After that, she played under US flag. I’m not surprised that she recently become Hungarian citizen, without revoking her US and Serbian citizenship. However, as a tennis player she didn’t play under Hungarian flag. So, there is no reason to change the first sentence over and over again. --N Jordan 23:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Monica Seles was born in Novi Sad, thats where she started her first tennis steps. Her parents are from small town in the north of Serbia called Kanjiza. Thats the one and only truth. But me as a serb would never consider Monica a serbian. Primarily because she is not one, she is of Hungarian origin and secondly because she has left her home country at the worst possible time plus she took American citizenship. If something is enough thats got to be it.

• • me as a serbian montenegrin from belgrade would never consider seles (ethnic) serbian, not only becase she is of hungarian origin, but because she proudly played for multiethnic yugoslavia, not just for serbia, and she was indeed truly yugoslav player, adored in all of yugoslavia. i do think she left her country at the best possible time for her and i think she made for yugoslavia much more and much better than many serbs or my montenegrian did at a time, staying in their country and messing with boundaries. it was enormous pleasure seeing monica with a racket instead, perhaps, with a gun. btw, i belive she has three citizenships now - serbian, american and hungarian. she still have some relatives in vojvodina.

comeback

I really don't think Seles said that she would come back to tennis in early 2006. She would be too old to do so.70.243.228.101 22:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

69.152.174.203 02:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Stabbing incident

It would be interesting to read more about her stabbing. I don't remember anything about it, only that it happened in the 90's sometime (the article says 1993). --Kimonandreou 01:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I too found the blase mention of it surprising, given that it wasn't an insignificant event. --59.100.131.213 10:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

to be honest, there is more mention of her injury on the guy who stabbed her's page!! i put this on the discussion page there - although it doesn't give this info on her page (although it seems to be worded the same) can anyone please explain how a 10 inch knife PLUNGED into something leaves only a 1.5cm DEEP wound?? 1.5cm isn't even an inch. to plunge a knife into something would read that it went ALL the way in, or at least somewhere near all the way in. to be honest, her wound was little more than a scratch! maybe plunged isn't the best word to use here. maybe jabbed? i don't know, it just doesn't seem as serious as what it reads like. - but yeah, i kinda agree, although it does seem blase, and a bit strange to have a little bit more info on the stabber's page, there is the fact that it wasn't a serious stabbing. i mean 1.5cm, it would just have broken the skin, she was in absolutely no danger of losing her life. get a ruler, look at 1.5 cm, and then think about that on your own body, it's going to touch no vital organs! yes, sad she was stabbed, i'm not trying to detract from that, but it seems to have been blown out of all proportion. just my opinion of course. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It is not our own opinions that matter. It is whether a subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, and there has been a lot written about this stabbing in various books, magazines and newspapers. I even found a 550 word article about the stabber in the Neue Zürcher Zeitung from 2005. The article on the stabber was deemed on 9 December 2009 to be not notable enough to warrant a separate article, and was changed to a redirection to this article. However, there does seem to be enough written about the incident to expand this section rather more. Coyets (talk) 12:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hungarian citizen?!

Where did you get that information? Give us first some references, please; and then add that info in the article. OK? --Göran Smith 21:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Hungarian articles:

[2] (article in one of the two biggest Hungarian news portals, index.hu)

[3] (original article on a sport portal)

[4] (article in a leading daily political paper)

[5] (article in a popular, red-top like tabloid)

Note that the articles refer "MTI" (the official Hungarian News Agency) as source (an MTI released news of June 7, 2006). Alas, the articles are hard to understand if you do not speak Hungarian, but they are all about that Monika made the official Hungarian Oath of Citizenship, presumably keeping her US citizenship as well.

Maybe it is not enought to made the update appear in the article; in this case we shall wait for the (probably soon) upcoming bulletin from the Hungarian Immigration Office. Please decide whether to remove the references from the article until it became verified on the approved level (I personally think that this kind of news is hardly imaginary but it does not really count). --Lawn_Walker

I'm pretty sure the US does not allow dual-citizenship so I don't think she can be Hungarian. Also there is not mention in this page to why Monica Seles changed her nationality from Yugoslav to American, there should be probably be a mention to why she changed nationality as I think its a pretty big deal. --David

Seles/Seleš

What is the correct way of spelling her surname: Seles or Seleš?

• Correct serbian spelling is Seleš and correct hungarian spelling is Szeles. Vanjagenije 10:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Coach Dinkins

This was obviously a joke during the USA telecast of the 2007 US Open and I don't think the entry should be calling David Dinkins her coach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.111.153 (talk) 19:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 11:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hungarian citizenship

• Szeles Mónika magyar állampolgár!, teniszinfo/sportforum.hu, June 7, 2007
• Szeles Mónika magyar állampolgár lett, index.hu, June 7, 2007
• Titokban lett magyar állampolgár Szeles Mónika, HVG, June 7, 2007

Try finding a HUN-ENG online dictionary and start to translate these article's first paragraphs, or at least their titles. Monika Seles became a Hungarian citizen as well, try to accept it :) Yup, she has 3 passports since june 2007. --91.82.32.54 (talk) 02:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I have looked and been unable to find even ONE English language source for Seles having become a citizen of Hungary. If she had done so, there would be MANY English language sources for this. Tennis expert (talk) 06:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Why should be there? She's not really noteworthy nowadays... There's not much Hungarian sources abt this either btw. But you know what? Try emailing her, or at least her biggest fanclub. You'll get suprised. --87.97.106.78 (talk) 17:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The assertion that she is no longer noteworthy is ridiculous. Her "fan club" is not a reputable source. Also, see this. Tennis expert (talk) 19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian citizen

I translated the titles of the articles which speak for themselves. I also inserted a quote from the fourth reliable source claiming basically the same. English sources preferred if you have some (that's not the case here). The articles mention (one of them even in the title) it supposed to happen in secret, I think that's why you can't find any coverage in English sources.
All Hungarian sources are reliable enough: Index and Origo are the largest news portals in Hungary (the latter owned by T-Online), HVG is a frequently cited, reliable weekly considered the leading news magazine in the country. Squash Racket (talk) 03:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no reliable source for Seles having obtained Hungarian citizenship. Various persons (and now you) are for some reason pushing an agenda to convince the public that she has obtained it. If she had obtained Hungarian citizenship, an English language, reliable news agency would have picked up on it and publicized it. Hasn't happened. Enough said. Tennis expert (talk) 04:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

That's not necessarily true, and there's nothing wrong with using foreign language sources on Wikipedia. You have no compelling reason to disregard the sources given beyond "I can't read Hungarian" and "I don't believe it". Please refrain from calling users "vandals" for making content changes you disagree with. --Haemo (talk) 05:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

When did I say that "I can't read Hungarian"? When did I say that "I don't believe it"? When did I say that this user was a "vandal"? Don't misquote me again. There is good reason that many editors of this article have repeatedly reverted over the last 6 months attempts to add so-called information about her secretly obtaining Hungarian citizenship. Not one English-language source has reported her having done so. She is an American citizen. She has lived in the United States for over 20 years. Before she stopped playing on the professional tennis tour, she played on United States national tennis teams for many years. She has no reported tie to Hungary other than what appear to be rumor reporting and wishful thinking media reports in Hungarian language sources. If she had obtained Hungarian citizenship, secretly or otherwise, the English-language media, particularly those in the United States, would have been all over this. If would've been front page news. That never happened. Squash Racket's edits are against the overwhelming consensus. All of this is why his edits in this respect are "vandalism." Tennis expert (talk) 06:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, see WP:REDFLAG. Tennis expert (talk) 07:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It is not an exceptional claim (not even big news) that an ethnic Hungarian (both parents Hungarian) asks for Hungarian citizenship. English media doesn't follow her that much nowadays, and she retired in February. I see no concensus, just your opinion here.

For the third time: don't call my edits vandalism and read WP:VAN. Thank you. Squash Racket (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, right, the English media doesn't follow her anymore.... That's why the producers of the immensely popular American television show "Dancing With the Stars" recruited her to be on the show and why they gave her top billing in their promotions of the show. That's why the American media thought her retirement announcement in February 2008 was front page news on the sports page. That's why there's only 18,900 Google English-language references to her retirement announcement. Yeah, she's considered to be a no body these days.... Tennis expert (talk) 07:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Announcing your final retirement is the same level as asking for a second citizenship in a little European country (supposedly) in secret? Squash Racket (talk) 08:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I've restore the info again; Expert, be aware of WP:3RR. This info is fine to include. Lawrence Cohen § t/e 05:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do you believe this information is fine to include? What are you basing your conclusion on? Tennis expert (talk) 06:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Look, I've just done a cursory look and while some of the others seems a little sketchy, one of them is using Heti Világgazdaság, a Hungarian newspaper so there's a little more verifiability there. Would language like "Hungarian sources say she received Hungarian citizenship" seem a fair compromise? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, while a little weaker, a Canadian site, SLAM! Sports reports "Former world No. 1 tennis star, Yugoslavia-born Monica Seles, who is an American citizen, recently also became a citizen of Hungary. According to Monica, she did it to please her Hungarian mother." So it's not just the Hungarians. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I've found this sentence in a search result in the German magazine Focus: Monica Seles wurde als Ungarin in Jugoslawien geboren und ist heute amerikanische und ungarische Staatsbürgerin. But I can't find it in the linked article. Can someone help? Squash Racket (talk) 08:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Meanwhile I added references from Népszabadság, Magyar Nemzet and Nemzeti Sport. Squash Racket (talk) 14:17, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

As there was even an ANI thread about this, I would appreciate if newspapers of record (even if "only" Hungarian) wouldn't disappear from the article. As you can see this guy questioned this recently even with seven(!) references in the article and even four(!) sources were deleted like there were none.

Some administrators were also involved in this, I would be reluctant to ask them again to reinsert the reliable references supporting the statement, but it's better than revert warring. Squash Racket (talk) 05:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

My only question is why so many references are deemed necessary? How many sources must it take to convince people? More than two notes looks plain silly for a single statement (it gives the particular statement undue weight by excessive number of notes, which are visually striking^{[1][2][3][4][5][6]} and break the flow of the text). Hungarian sources are OK if no English ones are available, but for an English speaker with no knowledge of Hungarian, there's no way to tell which Hungarian source is that country's National Enquirer and which is their CNN, so to speak, and just adding Hungarian sources won't do anything to help. With an English reference from a reliable source, I don't see why more than one Hungarian source should be kept. I should say I've seen this happen before, in the Hypatia article in particular (12 notes about nationality, Greek vs Egypt). In that case, I think one editor simply merged all the sources into a single note, but now it's down to a single note with a single source which is no longer challenged. If half a dozen Hungarian articles is what it takes to avoid dispute for now, I imagine putting them all within a single note like so ^[1] can be done.--Boffob (talk) 07:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The English language source is not as reliable as the Hungarian ones. This fact was seriously questioned, so having a few references is very much valid here. BTW that is quite common after disputes, administrators didn't have a problem with having seven(!) references. I agreed to remove some as a compromise, but enough is enough.

For now even seven references don't seem to be enough. This is only one well referenced sentence, so WP:DUE doesn't apply here.

The Hungarian sources I left in have their own pages on Wikipedia, so even English readers can easily tell them from unreliable sources. Squash Racket (talk) 09:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The cites should be in the infobox as well (using the same notes, not duplicate ones, with a "ref name=" tag), as it appears the editor who removed Hungary from the infobox simply did not read the intro paragraph. I still think all the separate Hungarian sources should be put in a single note.--Boffob (talk) 15:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I hope the comment below clarifies a few things to you about the situation.

I have nothing against adding references in the infobox (though why can't "ref name=" tags be used there?). About the single-note:

• it would suggest the English ref is reliable and the Hungarian ones are not, the reality is quite the opposite
• the Hungarian sources exclusively deal with the supported statement, the English one barely mentions it
• though I frequently dealt with references/citations I haven't seen such a solution on Wikipedia
• Wikipedia totally accepts foreign language references, especially if these have their own pages here, so their reliability is easy to check. Squash Racket (talk) 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I meant do use "ref name" tags (instead of copy-pasting the same notes such as I've seen for, say The China Study and elsewhere). I'm not saying the Hungarian references are unreliable, it's just that, again, they all say the same thing, so most are unnecessary (because they're redundant). A few editors (how many really?) seem to dispute them, which is why the English one has to be there, eventhough it's just a short mention. For those who can't read Hungarian (most users of English wiki) and don't trust foreign sources (though they should trust the other editors who put them there), it's the only reference that supports the statement. That's the entire rub, isn't it? You may add n Hungarian sources, if the editors who dispute the statement can't read them, they'll still dispute the claim, so adding more foreign language cites is pointless. But having a cite or two both in the infobox and the intro should stop repeated removal of the Hungarian citizenship information. In fact, if you split all the cites in the intro between the intro and the infobox (so that there's no repeat, and each part has 2-3 notes), then I won't have a problem with excessive notes like this^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]...}.--Boffob (talk) 03:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I got your comment on "ref name" tags wrong. I agree with your proposal, I moved two references to the infobox, that is acceptable to me (if stability remains). Squash Racket (talk) 05:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the infobox part was removed again, but the editor in this case says it's because "country" here means country that she played for (at some point in her career). If that's the case (it's quite possible), then Hungary should not be listed in the infobox.--Boffob (talk) 10:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I won't edit war over that, I added back the two refs to support another part of the sentence, I hope we can finally move on. Squash Racket (talk) 13:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

i dont know where you got the idea of calling Seles an ETHNIC Hungarian. my grandmas last name was Sereŝ and she called her self an ethnic Serb. she could speak Serb, Slovak, and Hungarian. Hungarian is a culture and a state of mind NOT AN ETHNICITY. there is no such thing as ETHNIC hungarian. for the sake of arguing, genetics and history even prove that Hungary has no actual ethnicity. Kabina (talk) 20:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your very first edit on Wikipedia. Squash Racket (talk) 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Serbian and Hungarian citizenships were aquired after the retirement. She played for YU and US only

Infobox Tennis player means the information about this persons tennis career. That is why we have two inputs in box called "Country" - Yugoslavia and the United States. If this box was about her citizenships then it would have included United States, Serbia and Hungary, but it's not about that.--Avala (talk) 10:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

"According to Canadian and Hungarian news media"

If the source is reliable (and that is easy to check), we don't need to add "according to media of that and that other country". Until there is no more reliable source disputing the fact, the statement is simply true.
If someone wants to include such info, we also indicate origin of all the sources mentioned in the article. Squash Racket (talk) 03:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

As you know, none of us have been able to find a source about Seles receiving Hungarian citizenship "in secret" except in the Hungarian and Canadian news media. Therefore, it is totally appropriate to indicate this problem in the article itself. This makes this citizenship "fact" different from all other facts in the article, which to my knowledge can be verified through news media of innumerable countries. If I am wrong concerning a particular fact, I have no problem with your adding, e.g., "According to published reports in British news media." By the way, in your edit summary, you said, "if this gets reinserted once again, we will indicate other sources' origin too, including 'American media.'" I think you should be cautious about editing just to make a WP:POINT. Tennis expert (talk) 06:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It is interesting that you are talking about WP:Point after you had deleted this information even with references. Administrators had no problems with the sources and the wording and their earlier comment on this talk page was very clear about that:

That's not necessarily true, and there's nothing wrong with using foreign language sources on Wikipedia. You have no compelling reason to disregard the sources given beyond "I can't read Hungarian" and "I don't believe it". --Haemo (talk) 05:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to emphasize how odd it would look if all the sources would be labelled that way. It is also telling you used quotation marks for the fact so despite the kind edit summary you seem to question the fact itself.

The sources include Hungarian newspapers of record Népszabadság and Magyar Nemzet. Squash Racket (talk) 06:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Material removed

I've removed the following as it isn't sourced:

• Seles is left-handed.
• Seles' final against Martina Navratilova at the 1991 US Open was the only all left-handed women's singles final of a Grand Slam event.

Can anyone confirm the follow?

• The age gap between Seles (17 years old) and Navratilova (34 years old) at the 1991 US Open was the largest in a Grand Slam women's singles final.

Is any of the below information important?

• Seles appeared on the sitcom The Nanny as herself.
• Singer/songwriter Dan Bern has a song about Seles on his Fifty Eggs album entitled "Monica".

It doesn't look that way to me, but I could be mistaken. If the material is important, then it shouldn't be in a trivia section (trivia meaning "unimportant information"). - Tbsdy lives (talk) 23:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Information can validly be in a trivia section and still be important. Tennis expert (talk) 06:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, no actually, it can't. Seriously, go look up the definition of trivia in any number of dictionaries, and in our own article - trivia. It means unimportant information. - Tbsdy lives (talk) 05:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, actually, it can. Trivia sections are discouraged but not prohibited. And not every fact in a Wikipedia article that satisfies the notability requirements must itself be notable. Tennis expert (talk) 08:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Give me an example of non-notable material that is important or useful enough to have in an article. There are many reasons why this guideline should be followed, I leave it to you to provide me with evidence to the contrary. - Tbsdy lives (talk) 09:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

P.S. I appreciate the effort you took in reorganizing the merge [6] :-) Tbsdy lives (talk) 09:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

split article

I would suggest making all the tournament tables and statistics into a separate article.--Levineps (talk) 19:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Australian/America open?

The "Records" section lists the Australian open twice. Should one of the entries be the US open? Fig (talk) 11:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Scratch that - it probably means there were two records for Australia and none for the US. Fig (talk) 19:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I do not agree with the inclusion of the sentence 'Parche admitted that he stabbed Seles to help Graf regain the No.1 ranking'. Parche was a criminally insane man and so why is his opinion of the Graf/Seles rivalry relevant here? It sounds like he's being quoted as a reliable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.56.24 (talk) 12:48, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, since he's the dude who stabbed her, who better then he to explain what his motives were? Actually, I don't think he was insane at all. He did what he set out to do, and he accomplished his goal. A crazy person thinks they are invisible or something like that. I want my sport's hero to win, so I will stab her opponent. It's an evil plot. But it's not crazy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.120.92.137 (talk) 07:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Monica Seles citizenship (moved from inappropriate section above)

Completely wrong.One did not have to be necessarily citizen of one of the 6 republics to be considered citizen of Yugoslavia.So called "republic citizenship"was never enforced and there was not "de jure"stationary law about that.They are many examples to that claim, of handful of people becoming stateless after Yugoslavia ceased to exist because none of the republics wanted them,or they were simply found ineligible for any citizenship.My mother is example to this(she was stateless for some time in Croatia because of her serbian origin and not being born in Croatia although she lived and worked there for 30 years.) as well as many Kosovo Albanians who never held Serbian citizenship due to various circumstances but they did have Yugoslavian passports.Many erased citizens of SR Slovenia are stateless up to now a days etc. The point is,after dissolution of Yugoslavia,everybody had to apply for citizenships of new formed countries and it was up to discretion of those sovereign nations whom they would admit.A FACT! 70.79.193.42 (talk) 04:48, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

That is not true. Everybody in Yugoslavia was supposed to have so called "republic citizenship". The problem about "erased citizen" in Slovenia was about their right to become citizens of new, independent Republic of Slovenia - not about their previous "republic citizenship" in former Yugoslavia. But in former Yugoslavia it was not possible to get a passport or mandatory identification card without the Citizenship Certificate. That certificate always included republic citizenship. So, Monika Seles become citizen of Serbia by birth and unless she revoked that, she still hold that citizenship (together with US and Hungarian). I don't understand importance of that. --N Jordan (talk) 07:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

• NB Monica Seles (and citizenship) are being mentioned at WP:RM In ictu oculi (talk) 20:43, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

the Germans again - unsuitable photo on de.wikipedia.org

What's behind the Germans' obsession with MS?

Always trying to run her down, to bash her, to ruin her public image?

Don't believe me? Look at the photo in German WP on MS...

Breast silhouettes, nipple, panties...

What can be done about it?

--89.204.137.180 (talk) 16:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

• I looked at the de.wp article, and to be honest, I don't see a problem with the images. If you do, de has talk pages, posting here will likely never be seen by anyone who edits the de.wp page. Courcelles 05:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

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