Talk:Misty Fjords National Monument

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External link?

Kayak journey through the Misty Fjords

My own, has many photos of the area. AlaskaTrekker 17:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, such links to pages of photos etc are not considered to be contributing to the article, and are usually removed. (also it is usually considered bad form to link to sites related to yourself, even if they are pertinent.) Thanks for taking care of your own. Cheers Geologyguy 21:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

better location map pls

not that the US-wide location map isn't needed here, but a closeup map like the one on Alaska Panhandle is needed to exactify the location within Alaska and the Coast, which isn't clear at all on the current map.Skookum1 (talk) 15:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm new to wiki and hesitant to make a major change here, but the US Forest Service, which manages Misty Fiords National Monument, uses that spelling (an i rather than a j in "Fiords"). While many locals prefer the "j," the Forest Service's spelling derives from President Carter's Proclamation 4623 of December 1, 1978, which established Misty Fiords National Monument. Seems like the Presidential proclamation would control. AKRanger (talk) 05:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name of the Monument is Misty Fjords since 1980

Hi, while the monument was originally proclaimed by Jimmy Carter in 1978 as Misty Fiords National Monument, the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act of 1980 established it as Misty Fjords National Monument in Sec 503. So I plan to move the page to the correct name unless someone here can give a reason not to. Any opinions? --h-stt !? 13:26, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well... While the ANILCA statute technically changed the spelling, as far as I can tell the common usage is about evenly split between the two spellings. In particular, the Forest Service persists in using the "i" spelling in both its web sites and in all printed publications that I have seen. (The reason I started poking around in this article is a recent article in The Oregonian that uses the "i" spelling, presumably following the Forest Service's lead.) While Wikipedia's policy on article titles prefers common usage to technically correct usage (at WP:COMMONNAME), in situations where the common usage is evenly split we possibly could view the statutory spelling as a tiebreaker. BUT, the policy also seems to discourage changing article titles unless there's a fairly clear-cut case for it, which I'm not sure exists in this case. Personally, I prefer the "j" spelling aesthetically, and I do wish the Forest Service and the larger public would conform to the statutory spelling (not least for consistency with Kenai Fjords National Park, which never suffered this confusion). However, within the policies defining Wikipedia standardized style, I tend to break for the "i" spelling. That said, I don't feel strongly on the topic, and certainly won't fuss if you make the change. —Ipoellet (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just as a postscript: What I don't want to see is some editor (not me) coming along in a year and not seeing this discussion and changing the title back to the "i" spelling, then a year after that it gets changed back to "j" again, and so forth. That scenario does seem plausible, given that this article originally started with the "j" spelling, then was already changed to the "i" spelling (2009-10-15), and now you're proposing to change back to the "j" spelling again. —Ipoellet (talk) 22:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, that was my rename based on Google searches being roughly evenly split, and tipped toward the i spelling due to a) the overseeing agency's official spelling, and b) common English spelling "rules". I don't have a strong opinion either way. Since there is a redirect at Misty Fjords National Monument to this name, it presents no navigational difficulty. It also means an administrator is needed to make the change. Presumably that increases the instances this discussion is checked when contemplating a rename. —EncMstr (talk) 05:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe WP:Commonname applies primarily to objects that were named by convention and over time. Here we have and act of legislation and a formal naming procedure. The fact that the USFS in unable to use the correct name for its own National Monument should come as no surprise to anyone who has ever seen the USFS at work. There is only one correct name, and we should use it. --h-stt !? 15:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC) PS: ping-pong renaming could be avoided by a paragraph in the lead, explaining the naming history. Let's do that anyway, because it will be needed no matter how we finally call this article.[reply]

Thank you for finding and linking the Antiquities Act proclamation! I've been frustrated trying to find older presidential proclamations online. And you're definitely right that the name variations need to be addressed in the article, whichever way is selected for the title. I've tweaked what you did to try to make the lead flow as well as possible, but I'm still not fully satisfied with it. I wonder if addressing the variations in a footnote would be a better approach? —Ipoellet (talk) 17:11, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the introduction of the article is quite decent now. Thanks, Ipoellet for your improvements. And I don't think we can move this into a footnote, as we need to explain the administrative history with the presidential proclamation and the subsequent establishing act by congress anyway. Throwing in the spelling change seems fine. Anyway, I still believe the article should be moved to the current correct spelling. --h-stt !? 13:45, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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