Talk:Minolta A-mount system

Minolta Dynax name and regional discrepancies

alpha/Maxxum/Dynax oddity

The whole problem with the Maxxum/alpha/Dynax branding stems from the fact that Minolta were not decided on a name of the whole system. Thus, Minolta dubbed the mount 'A' and the flashes were marketed as Maxxum/alpha flashes in America/Japan respecitvely.

When Minolta released the 7000i in 1989, they finally decided on a name of the system, 'Dynax,' under which it was to be marketed worldwide, but since names such as 'Minolta Maxxum Dynax 7000i' or "Minolta Dynax a-7000i' would have been unwieldy, they decided otherwise and marketed the system under three different names (Dynax, Maxxum and alpha).

As a result, the system did not receive a name. Unlike Canon, which started branding their cameras as 'EOS' right from the start, but unlike Nikon or Pentax, which were simply continuations of manual focus systems.

Differences between bodies across regions

As for the differences between the bodies in various regions, it goes much deeper. For example, IIRC, most companies did not include (or disabled) AF confirmation beep in the bodies released in USA because of patent issues. Some models were differently specified and were not directly comparable, and were available in different versions (colour being the most obvious) depending on region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.153.194.14 (talk) 15:15, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

3rd party lenses

ISTR there were many 3rd party lenses available, Vivitar being one of the more common. Tabby (talk) 18:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Patent infringement?

"after Konica Minolta was sued by Hewlett-Packard for patent infringement" -- never heard of this. Google gives nothing. What's that about? 9000org (talk) 15:45, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, this was added by 65.35.229.99 21:09, 4 August 2009, and doesn't seem to have any bearing in reality. Removing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 9000org (talk • contribs)

Classification of Minolta A-mount film cameras and getting this article into shape

Okay, since people have been asking about more models, informations, and order to the article on this talkpage before... Wanting to get something as comprehensive, precise, intuitive, tidy, and well-arranged as Template:Canon EOS film cameras and Template:Konica Minolta/Sony DSLR cameras particularly for a similar Minolta A-mount film cameras template (even if I'm not able to wiki-code something as neat and impressive as those two templates myself), I've spent the last three days googling hard, reading many, many reviews and doing lots and lots of copy-pasting on the Minolta Dynax/Maxxum line. What's hardest to find for such a nifty table are the discontinuation date for all the models.

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as the nifty, official Canon Camera Museum online for the Dynax/Maxxum line because Konica Minolta have sold all of their patents and know-how related to A-mount bodies and lenses to Sony in 2005 who've used it to create the digital Sony Alpha line (which, to a large degree, is pretty much the continuation of the Dynax/Maxxum body line with digital backs), but because Sony act like they've invented their Alpha system from scratch, they don't give a damn about providing any film camera history. Many rumors on the web suggest there once *WAS* something akin to the online Canon Camera Museum for the Minolta A-line film cameras at konicaminoltaphotoworld.com, but having sold their patents to Sony, that site was closed down in July 2006. Looking at the last Wayback snapshot dating immediately before the close-down, it appears all information on the site was restricted to official customer accounts. Two prior snapshots dating 9 June 2004 ("Minolta Analogue Camera History") and 8 July 2004 ("Minolta Analogue Camera History part II") show some indication to the desired information, but again, official customers only. On the other hand, there's also a Wayback snapshot dating February 2011 of a very limited official specs list on ca.konicaminolta.com (one month later, the list had disappeared). Only 7 very late (fifth-generation and sixth-generation) Maxxums are listed at all: 9, 7, 70, 5, 50, 4, and 3, none with any release or production end date, even on their own dedicated sub-pages.

So, my main sources for the following were:

• The German WP article de:Konica Minolta Dynax that has pretty good and semi-exhaustive info on each model's release date.
• Our English WP article here as it is today, particularly information on each model's level of sophistication and numbering of generations.
• A January 2005 Wayback snapshot of Klaus Schroiff's really decent, comprehensive comparison of all Dynax/Maxxum cameras at photozone.de (includes assessment of where each model sits in the Dynax/Maxxum hierarchy and original introduction prices).
• The trade catalogue search hits for most Dynax/Maxxum camera on collection-appareils.fr give a remote idea of how long each camera may have been manufactured.

More good sources on the Minolta A-mount camera line that can be used for further improvements of this article as well as those articles for every single camera:

• Minolta/Konica Minolta/Sony Alpha camera bodies on mhohner.de (each model can be clicked to reach its dedicated own sub-page).
• Exhaustive sites on Maxxum 7000 and 7000i on mir.com.my
• Exhaustive site on the Dynax/Maxxum 9000
• Michael Butkus Jr. claims on his [(Redacted) Minolta manuals as free PDFs site] that he has "most of the Dynax/Maxxum manuals", but only 8 of them actually show up on his page. Seems like he wants you to mail him in person if you want the others.

So, without further ado, here's the proper classification of Dynax/Maxxum cameras that I've arrived at with all the above sources, in order to be adopted into this article and the relevant articles for each model:

• First generation (no special designation outside of Alpha AF in Japan, Maxxum AF in the US, and simply AF in Europe, 1985-1990?)
  • Minolta 7000AF/Maxxum 7000: Introduced in January 1985. Listed in trade catalogues from 1986-1990
  • Minolta 9000AF/Maxxum: Introduced in September 1985.
  • Minolta 5000AF/Maxxum 5000: Introduced in 1986. Listed in trade catalogues from 1986-1987
• Second generation (i = "intelligent", 1988-1992?)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 3000i: Introduced in 1988. Listed in trade catalogues from 1990-1992
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7000i: Introduced in 1988. Listed in trade catalogues from 1989-1992
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5000i: Introduced in 1989. Listed in trade catalogues from 1990-1992
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 8000i: Introduced in 1991. Listed in trade catalogues from 1990-1991
• Third generation (xi = "eXtended Intelligence, 1991-1995?)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 3xi: Introduced in 1991. Listed in trade catalogues from 1991-1995
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7xi: Introduced in 1991. Listed in trade catalogues from 1991-1994
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 2xi: Introduced in 1992.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5xi: Introduced in 1992. Listed in trade catalogues from 1992-1994
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 9xi: Introduced in June 1992.
  • Minolta Maxxum SPxi: Introduced in 1992.
• Fourth generation (si = "Sophisticated Intelligence", 1993-1999?)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 700si: Introduced in 1993. Stated clearly as "manufactured 1993-1997"
  • Minolta Dynax 500/Maxxum 400si: Introduced in 1994. Listed in trade catalogues from 1996-1998
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 300si: Introduced in 1995. Listed in trade catalogues from 1997-1998
  • Minolta Dynax 500si Super/Maxxum 400si: Introduced in 1995.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 600si Classic: Introduced in 1995.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 800si: Introduced in 1997.
  • Minolta Dynax 505si/Maxxum HTsi: Introduced in 1998. Listed in trade catalogues in 1998
  • Minolta Dynax 505si super/Maxxum XTsi: Introduced in 1998.
  • Minolta Dynax 303si/Maxxum QTsi: Introduced in 1999.
  • Minolta Dynax 404si/Maxxum STsi: Introduced in 1999.
• Fifth generation (single-digit designation, 1998-2006)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 9: Introduced in December 1998 (Asia & Europe), April 1999 (US). Official discontinuation announcement by Konica Minolta dating January 2006, declaring sales will end by late March 2006: [1] (The announcement only vaguely talks about all film SLRs being discontinued but the 9's German WP article says the announcement related specifically to it.)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 9Ti: Introduced in November 1999.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7: Introduced in 2000. End announced in 3rd quarter 2004, seemingly sold up to late 2004/2nd quarter 2005 outside of Japan: [2], [3], [4] (see review by Raindogs451), but the Japanese version of the official Konica Minolta page still showed it available for order up to March 2006: [5] (but the 9 was gone from the list by then)
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5: Introduced in 2001.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7 Limited: Introduced in 2001.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 4: Introduced in 2002.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 3 Limited: Introduced in 2003.
• Sixth generation (2-digit designation, 2004-?)
  • Minolta Dynax 30/Maxxum 40: Introduced in 2004.
  • Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 60: Introduced in 2004.

Oooookay...so with all of the above and some background information of reading lots and lots of reviews and some educated guesses, I'm trying to create something *VERY* tentative that remotely looks like the Canon EOS timeline template above. From about the mid-1990s or the fourth generation onwards, the level of sophistication with Minolta Dynax/Maxxum cameras grew more complex than the three levels of Flagship aka professional/Enthusiast aka semipro/Entry-level, hence from then on I've adopted a more sophisticated hierarchy resembling similar evolutionary changes in the Canon EOS timeline.

• Flagship/professional level (1985-1998?): Minolta 9000AF/Maxxum 9000 (first generation, 1985-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 9xi (third generation, 1992-?)
  • Higher flagship/professional level (December 1998-March 2006): Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 9/9Ti (fifth generation, December 1998-March 2006), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7 (fifth generation, November 2000-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7 Limited (fifth generation, 2001-?)
  • Lower flagship/professional level (1997-?): Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 800si (fourth generation, 1997-?)

• Enthusiast/semipro level (1985-?): Minolta 7000AF/Maxxum 7000 (first generation, 1985-1990?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7000i (second generation, 1988-1992?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 8000i (second generation, 1990/91-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 7xi (third generation, 1991-1994?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 700si (fourth generation, 1993-1997)

• Entry-level (1986-1994?): Minolta 5000AF/Maxxum 5000 (first generation, 1986-1987?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5000i (second generation, 1989-1992?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5xi (third generation, 1992-1994?)
  • Higher entry-level (1994-?): Minolta Dynax 500si/Maxxum 400si (fourth generation, 1994-?), Minolta Dynax 500si Super/Maxxum 500si (fourth generation, 1995-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 600si Classic (fourth generation, 1995-?), Minolta Dynax 505si/Maxxum HTsi (fourth generation, 1998-?), Minolta Dynax 505si super/Maxxum XTsi (fourth generation, 1998-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 5 (fifth generation, 2001-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 4 (fifth generation, 2002-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 60 (sixth generation, 2004-?)
  • Lower entry-level (1991-?): Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 3xi (third generation, 1991-1995?), Dynax/Maxxum 2xi (third generation, 1992-?), Minolta Dynax 300si (fourth generation, 1995-1998?), Minolta Dynax 303si/Maxxum QTsi (fourth generation, 1999-?), Minolta Dynax 404si/Maxxum STsi (fourth generation, 1999-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 4 (fifth generation, 2002-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 3 Limited (fifth generation, 2003-?), Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 40 (sixth generation, 2004-?)

So I'd suggest that this evolutionary diversification particularly of the Professional and Entry-level should be treated just like in the Canon EOS timeline table: Rather than splitting up the three-level hierarchy on the left, just stack up the individual model boxes on top of each other *WITHIN* their respective level, just like they did it at the Canon EOS timeline, depending upon each camera's level of sophistication. Plus, I think the generation number of each model could be communicated with colors, just like they've used them for features such as Pellicle mirror, APS-format, and Panorama function at the Canon EOS table.

Most of all: We need additonal editors power here to get rid of those many question marks in my list up there! Do you guys know more searchable/googable trade catalogues of the 80s and 90s so we can get more reliable end-of-manufacture dates for every camera? Plus, there's still so much more to the sources I've given above to be ported here and into the dedicated sub-articles on every single camera.

I think we should also for a large degree model our Minolta A-mount article here on Canon EOS, as the two were very similar and each other's main competitors at the time (something which should be mentioned in both article leads), only the EOS article looks in a much better shape at the moment. One short introduction on the background behind the A-mount and how it came about in the mid-80s and a general overview (not more than maybe five(?) paragraphs) of the line's and Minolta's history (how the A-mount compared in market penetration to Canon EF/EOS, I think Minolta's A-mount had very different market penetration success with their entry and professional level cameras each where only one of the two was really selling or was readily available in stores), how Minolta began to team up with Konica from the mid-90s on, how around 2000 Minolta licensed the first Dynax/Maxxum bodies off to Kodak who'd just slap digital back-ends on them for crude digital cameras that never really got off the ground in sales figures (or was that Canon with their EOS's?), the Minolta-Konica merger in 2003 and how it led to a few transiational ("Dimage"?) models before they've sold the entire system to Sony which have turned it into the Sony Alpha system.

Next up, my above list or table of A-mount film SLRs. I don't even think we should have much on every camera model in this overview article here. That's what dedicated own articles are for. Maybe a little about each generation's innovations and charactestics here, but not too much.

Finally, a dedicated Minolta A-mount timeline template at the bottom of this and every A-mount SLR camera article, like the ones for the Canon EOS series and the Sony Alpha series. Please, somebody with proper wikicoding skills do one with my above information already!

Having mentioned original introduction prices above, would there also be room for today's used prices somehow somewhere? I mean that can also serve as a hint as to how those models differ in level of professionality and how the Minolta engineers thought ahead on some models or only built short-lived toys or steady and trusty, but uneventful entry-level cameras with others, right? From my experience, the first three generations (except the 9xi) can all be found in full working condition easily for about 10-20 bucks on eBay today, any it's with the fourth generation, the si cameras, that things get really interesting in used camera prices today. As Minolta was really branching out and heavily expanded their range between top and bottom A-mount cameras with the fourth generation, their used prices nowadays depend upon what level of sophistication each model sits at from the fourth generation onwards. All entry-level cameras (except maybe the Minolta Dynax/Maxxum 600si Classic for its intuitive handling that avoids the complex LED menu wherever possible and has everything available at a simple button push or wheel jog, and either the 9 or 7 has inherited this nifty feature form the Classic) still go for as low prices as most models of the first three generations, as the entry-level fourth to sixth generation cameras are generally regarded mere cheap plastic toys today. I think the 800si as the high-end flagship of the fourth generation still can cost you a low three-digit amount, and the (next to Canon EOS-1N and Canon EOS-1V) highest-ever developed film SLR, absolute *POWER-OF-THOR* cameras Dynax/Maxxum 9 and 7 still cost you a four-digit amount. --79.242.203.134 (talk) 01:54, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Okay, having slept this over, I think we definitely need to split this article up into Minolty Dynax/Maxxum for the bodies vs. Minolta/Sony A-mount, akin to Canon EOS vs. Canon EF lens mount. --79.242.203.134 (talk) 19:55, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, who will do it? --Angerdan (talk) 19:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but your comment above is way too long to discuss conveniently. Still, I'd like to add some ad-hoc comments:

• Please don't use the Canon articles as guidelines, as they are not very well organized.
• Whatever you do, please don't merge Minolta/Konica Minolta infos with Sony info! There should be cross-links (of course!), but as they are using a different nomenclature, it would only confuse readers if you mix up the info. It has taken a tremendeous amount of time to straighten most of the nomenclature in the Sony articles.
• If you create camera-specific articles, I suggest to either omit the Dynax/Maxxum/α (α, not Alpha!) names in the article titles or list them all three (except for the few camera names which would be ambiguous without the prefixes).
• Market prices are irrelevant in Wikipedia, as this is an encyclopedia, not a sales guides.
• Forget about grouping cameras per "entry"/"pro" etc. classifications. Such attributes can be mentioned in the camera-specific articles, but these cats are subjective and will only confuse people.
• Most any of the info (including models, submodels and naming variants and codes, release years etc.) you are looking for has been very thoroughly researched (with an international focus) in the German Minolta-Forum. Worldwide, this has been the top site for Minolta technology and history. However, it is down since fall 2016, but you can still find a lot of the info (including the sub-forum headers, which show the exact spelling of all model variants world-wide) in the Wayback machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160127212254/http://www.mi-fo.de/forum/

• Eventually, there should be separate articles at least for the more important models, but this master article should contain a complete list of all Minolta and Konica Minolta A-mount bodies (but not Sony models).

--Matthiaspaul (talk) 21:51, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

• a.) In any case, the Canon EOS master article is in a far better shape than this one.

• b.) In fact, my intention behind splitting the bodies from the lenses was motivated at least in part in order to separate film from digital.

• c.) But in any case, original prices (as some German Dynax Wikipedia articles have them) still serve as one from a number of indicators for the model's level.

• d.) At the very least, the "flagship" aka professional Dynax/Maxxum cameras (9000AF, 9xi, 800si, 9, 7) were always officially designated by Minolta. The entry and mid-level cameras were also easily to tell by original price and number of built-in features, except with the si generation that really went all over the place where categorizations are a bit harder to make.

• e.) Well, I think my above list is fully complete on release dates (even if maybe half of them could use some specification nas to exact month or quarter of the year) and pretty much complete on models and naming variants (and I have no idea what the codes are good for nowadays). I've browsed the Wayback Snapshots of www.mi-mo.de for about 4-6 hours today, but I couldn't find the one information I need most at this point: End-of-production dates for every model. The site was neither any good as for any more exact introduction dates than the one we already have above. --79.242.203.134 (talk) 12:07, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

P. S.: But for what it's worth, that mi-mo forum has helped me find a few more interesting sources to use as weblinks on articles or to mine for informations:

• Minowiki: Spiegelreflex: Die Gehäuse - Analog
• 7-part Alpha Silver Jubilee – 25 years 1985-2010
• The Minolta Users' Group: Minolta Auto Focus FAQ, Version 1.1 (last updated 24 Aug. 2003)
• Guide to Minolta Cameras or What They Didn't Tell Us in Their Docs, compiled by Petr Holub (2002-2003, based upon the old Minolta Users Yahoo group)

--79.242.203.134 (talk) 14:10, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

 Done: Template:Minolta Dynax/Maxxum SLR film cameras --Angerdan (talk) 19:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Awesome! Thank you so much, Angerdan! I'd already given up hope to see my dream of a proper table template fulfilled. Just one thing: Why does the Dynax 4 appear two times: Once at Higher-entry level, and once at Lower-entry level? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:71:4F76:877:5C4E:1043:371F:5230 (talk) 19:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Maybe i'd just overlook them. Creating a table from scratch can tend to create mistakes. Please do any further comments on the discussion page of the template. --Angerdan (talk) 11:26, 10 June 2018 (UTC)