Talk:Min-On Concert Association/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

Min-on is one of the largest international concert associations in the world promoting peace and understanding among world cultures.Stgrlee16 (talk) 22:53, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Added page numbers to references. I believe these are valid references. I cannot find an article in English that exclusively features Min-on.Stgrlee16 (talk) 16:27, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Let's improve this submission

Moved from User talk:jmcgnh

In March DrStrauss left the following comment on the draft page: Comment: Advert tone fixed but still needs more independent references. DrStrauss talk 14:32, 9 March 2017 (UTC) This was followed by another editor who went back to the “advertisement tone” view. Then in July DrStrauss contradicted his previous point and returned the “advertisement tone” view. Submission declined on 9 July 2017 by DrStrauss (talk). This submission appears to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. I have read the link to “reads more like an advertisement.” I have read the draft for Min-on over and over and cannot find evidence as such. Please specifically inform me what “reads more like an advertisement.”

I have scoured the Internet and there is very little in English on Min-on. I used what is available.

First footnote is from Jamaican publication The Gleaner. Jeaneane and Merv Fowler are scholars at University of Wales, Richard Seager is a professor at Hamilton College in New York David Machacek, is a lecturer at University of California at Santa Barbara. Bryan Wilson is Reader Emeritus in Sociology at University of Oxford in England Tokyo International Competition for Conducting. Although the competition is organized by Min-on, it is supported by the Foreign Ministry of Japan, the Agency for Cultural Affairs of Japan, Tokyo Metropolitan Government, and Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK). Judges for the competition come from Austria, Russia, Korea, and Netherlands as well as Japan. Olivier Urbain is a Swiss poet and writer. He has a Wikipedia page (without any sources.) I am at an impasse here, if you can help, I would appreciate it. I think a large international concert association like Min-on deserves to be included on Wikipedia.Stgrlee16 (talk) 22:14, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Stgrlee16 and thanks for opening up a discussion. I can't respond in full right now, but when I get a bit more time, I'd like to move this message and discussion to the talk page for the draft. There's a gap between "deserving" and "can be adequately documented" that we have to bridge. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:22, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you.

I am willing to do the best I can, but so far it is not working. I have personal experience with Min-on in 1970 and that is what is my motivation. As you know, many Wiki entries are less than up to standards. I want to meet those standards, but I keep running into editor after editor who gives me confusing direction. You seem like an empathetic person. Let's make this happen.Stgrlee16 (talk) 03:47, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok, Stgrlee16, let's see what we can do.

I myself am fairly new at the Articles for Creation reviewing process, but what I've learned so far that that most of the time the review goes through four initial steps that should not be done out of order. First is to check whether the submission appears to be a copyright violation, since those have to be deleted when found. Second is to examine the issue of notability, which presents a lot of problems. I try to give an assessment of whether the subject seems likely to be notable, even if the current set of references fail to do it. Third is to judge whether what the submission says is verifiable. All through the process, we are evaluating sources, whether they are independent of the subject or not, whether they are writing something substantive about the subject or if it's merely a passing mention. Whether the matter being added is noteworthy (different from notability, more to avoid unnecessary trivia). Fourth is to examine the writing in the submission itself for neutrality and general conformance to WP standards. There's surely more involved, but these are the only parts I've just started to master. Failing any one of these steps leads to a decline, but the first step that fails should drive the language used in describing why the submission is declined. Doing things out of order leads to inconsistent reviews that confuse the poor person who is just trying to get their article accepted. [Why am I going into all this detail? Because the thought processes we apply as reviewers are very similar to the thought processes that the submitting editor should be going through.]

So, the first thing I did was try to assess whether the language in the submission had been copied from somewhere. I couldn't find any evidence of that, but you, as the submitter, would know better than I if it was copied. If you've copied something word for word from somewhere else, either a print source or something online, you need to rewrite those parts in your own words.

The next step is where I think we are currently stuck. There don't seem to be readily accessible sources that talk about Min-On as an organization, why it is important that it does what it does. These sources need not be online nor even in English. There are a few languages besides English that I can read at something approaching 50% comprehension or better, but Japanese is not one of them. So I'm not going to be much help at locating Japanese sources, but that's where I would expect to look for sources about a Japanese organization. Since it was founded way back in the pre-internet days of the 1960s, we're less likely to find talk about its founding on the internet...but it's not so old that it would have been written up in history books talking about the cultural scene in pre-war Japan.

While we can't cite Min-On's own website for purposes of establishing notability, we can most certainly scout around in it for topics that might lead to useful sources. Coverage of early concerts or the construction of its headquarters building might be something we could use. I don't know. I've just been through 10 pages of Google results searching on the string "Tokyo International Music Competition conducting min-on" without coming up with something I could use. There are several documents that mentioned the word "renowned" applied to Min-On, but all failed as usable sources.

So, we are for the moment stuck. I'm sure this exercise hasn't helped you much. But tell me if you find something better, using these hints, and we can evaluate whether it's enough to go forward with. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:57, 8 August 2017 (UTC)