Talk:Millwall F.C.–West Ham United F.C. rivalry/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lemonade51 (talk · contribs) 17:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I'll review this. Far to say the article has some way before meeting the GA criteria...

General

• Few dead links which need fixing.

Deadlinks removed and replaced.--Egghead06 (talk) 21:17, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

• I see no problems with the images and their licenses.
• There are several instances of WP:OVERLINK, like Upton Park and Premier League. Go over the article and remove links where repeated.
• Is it 'sent off' (Millwall had two players sent off during the match) or 'sent-off' (Kevin Nolan, was sent-off after only nine minutes for serious foul)?
• Is a 'notable matches' section needed when there is a 'Full list of results' table and you can just state the notability under the notes column?
• Use numerals for numbers greater than ten. So "The game itself saw about fifty West Ham supporters invade the pitch on three " should be 50
• Either use inverted commas when quoting something or apostrophe. Don't use both.

Removed multiple overlinkings. Replaced sent-off with sent off. Removed 'notable matches' section, notes section covers them all. Replaced multiple instances of twelve with 12, sixty with 60 and so on. Went with " " instead of ' ' throughout article.

History

• "Millwall Rovers Football Club were formed in 1885 by tinsmiths at JT Morton's canned food factory on the Isle of Dogs...", remember: football club is singular, football team is plural.

was, done. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• "Millwall reached the semi-final that year, which was quite a feat for a Southern League side" how so?
• "...but were eventually defeated by Southampton", the team was

Removed whole mention of Southampton semi, does not relate to rivalry. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• "The second competitive meeting was a Southern League match that became a game that which spanned two centuries"

Removed. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• "Thames Ironworks were disbanded in June 1900 due to disputes in the running of the club.", should that be 'in' or 'over'?

Fixed.--Egghead06 (talk) 21:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

• "The following month the club was relaunched as West Ham United." how about 'rebranded' or 'renamed' even? Relaunched reads very spacey.
• "During this period, The Lions went twelve games...", no prior introduction to 'The Lions'; I suggest you replace that with Millwall, or in the formations section include the nicknames.

Replaced Lions and Hammers with Millwall and West Ham respectively. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• "with two goals by Billy Bridgeman and one by Jack Flynn", two goals from
• "Four months later on 28 January 1911, Millwall travelled to Upton Park as a South London team for the first time."

During the wars

• "On 17 September 1932 West Ham beat Millwall 3–0 at Upton Park in the Second Division, with two goals from George Watson and one goal from Jackie Morton"
• "On 27 December 1938, 42,200 fans at Upton Park...", fans? Spectators is less ambiguous.
• "The game ended 0–0 and still stands as the record attendance", what is the relationship between the attendance and the final score? It would be better to incorporate that attendance fact in the previous sentence.
• "They played nineteen non-competitive games against each other during the Second World War, Millwall won three, West Ham twelve and four were drawn" replace comma between 'Second World War' and 'Millwall' with colon.

First top flight meeting

• "It was the featured Sunday game on The London Match, an LWT sports show", italicise The London Match as it is a programme.
• "The game was highly eventful. Millwall missed a penalty and had one saved by West Ham goalkeeper Stephen Bywater, who was subsequently sent off.", replace full stop with semicolon.

Done. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Upton Park riot

• "The FA handed both clubs misconduct charges, of which Millwall..." → "The Football Association (FA) handed both clubs misconduct charges, of which Millwall"

Done. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Tables

• It would be nice if they meet MOS:DTT for ease of accessibility.
• Under full list of results, does the note column need to be sortable?

Made record by comp sortable for accessibility and notes unsortable. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Players who have played for both teams

• "Lomas joined ex West Ham defender Tim Breacker" → "Lomas joined ex-West Ham defender Tim Breacker"

Supporters and hooliganism

• "Hooliganism reached its' height in the 1970s and 80s" → 'its height'
• "...but against the Police and many other firms associated with other" and "Millwall warning Police of a higher probability of violence due to this", Police or police?
• "The Football Association later handed Millwall three charges..." → "The FA later handed Millwall three charges", as you have previously linked and referred to the FA as its full name under the history section.
• "Fixtures between Millwall and West Ham United are currently categorized by the Metropolitan police as category C; games which carry a high risk of disorder amongst supporters", three things: one, categorised as per British English. Two, 'Metropolitan Police'. Three, incorrect usage of semicolon -- replace with dash.

All fixed.--Egghead06 (talk) 21:32, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Referencing

• Although this is not a GA requirement, it would be nice to see a consistent date format when citing a source.
• Newspaper refs should have the location parameter filled, unless it is stated in its title (ie: Birmingham Post)
• Is it The Telegraph or The Daily Telegraph? I'm inclined to believe it's the latter and that's how it is formatted on its Wiki entry.
• Ref 8 was created on 15 May 2003, not 15 March
• Ref 47 redirects to the homepage, not an article on the 'The Mothers' Day Massacre'
• Ref 50, 52, 53 and 82's works are BBC Sport. BBC is the publisher.
• Where is the author for Ref 45? Likewise the title of the match report is not the scoreline, it's 'West Ham suffer day of shame'
• Ref 82's publish date? Author?
• Ref 111 doesn't seem to be working for me. How is this by any chance a reliable source?
• Ref 119 was published in the Sunday People, even though the article is on the Mirror website.
• Ref 135 published in The Express? Can't see evidence on the source.

Corrected, removed Express mention. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 139 needs a (subscription required) template. Author needed too.
• Should IMDb be used as a source?

Fixed - Replaced with a review from The Guardian and add an additional ref from the NY Times.--Egghead06 (talk) 21:27, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Removed the other IMDb ref, replaced with Daily Mail. BillyBatty (talk) 13:39, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• Can you justify this blog as a high-quality, reliable source?

Removed this, too opinion-based. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 141 is published on Amazon.

I have replaced the Amazon links with some from a Google search for these titles. They are not user written and are not trying to sell you the book. They merely comment on the books, and for their use in this article, that the subject matter includes the rivalry.--Egghead06 (talk) 04:17, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• Ref 100 needs a retrival date.

Done. BillyBatty (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I was tempted to fail, but as two users have worked on this I think it's managable that you both can make the necessary corrections. On hold for seven days; I'll have another check once you've addressed my comments. Lemonade51 (talk) 17:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for taking this on! I've addressed a bulk of the issues you've raised. Pretty straight forward, and primarily grammatical, which is what this article was lacking, a good copyedit. Just the dead links and some references to go. If you want to go through and strike what I've done, that'd be helpful for when I tackle it again. BillyBatty (talk) 20:09, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Some more things...

• "West Ham supporters invade the pitch on three occasions, forcing the game to be temporarily suspended once.", hmmm check tense.
• "...Millwall were cleared of all charges while West Ham were found guilty of two: "violent, threatening, obscene and provocative behaviour" and failing to prevent their fans entering the field of play" bit in bold (BIB) is quoted
• Not sure if 11v11 is a reliable source. Have cited Statto's head to head instead.

Appreciate this is done now but FWIW 11v11 on its leader page claims to be "11v11.com - the official site of the Association of Football Statisticians" so it would be a surprise if it was not a reliable source.--Egghead06 (talk) 18:31, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

• 'West Ham United Football Club' and 'Millwall Football Club' are the publishers, not the works.
• Author and publish date for Ref 53 and 104?
• Ref 56, 127, 128, 131 author?
• Ref 79 publish date?

Just mainly referencing. Shall pass once comments have been addressed. Lemonade51 (talk) 15:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

All done, except for a publish date for 104. There isn't one. BillyBatty (talk) 16:35, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

My mistake, 103. Corrected it myself and have passed, nice job on the article. Lemonade51 (talk) 16:52, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Cheers for that! Do you think it'd take a lot of work to get this up to Featured Article standard? For example, the Tarrant refs, are they done correctly as inline citations? Or should the book title be removed and it just be a page number to satisfy a FA, as per Loveless (album)? BillyBatty (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2013 (UTC)