Talk:Miguel "El Gringo" Villarreal/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs) 21:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm reviewing this article. It's my practice to fill out a template first, and then do a more thorough prose and source review afterwards. I also like to copy-edit as I go. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 06:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

At first glance, a solid and interesting article. There are, however, some issues that should be addressed, but that should be easily done.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality, no copyvios, spelling and grammar:
There are minor issues with the prose; see below for a more detailed and thorough review.

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
I recommend, as I state on the article's talk page, that you remove the italics in the title, quote "El Gringo", and move it to Miguel "El Gringo" Villarreal.

Just moved the article's title. Thanks. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 06:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gracias. ;) Good work. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
Much of the sources are in Spanish, a language I don't know, so I'm AGF that they're accurate. However, in my spotcheck, I found a broken ref. See below for a more complete and thorough source review.

C. No original research:
Nothing that's glaringly OR.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
I have some issues with this article's scope; again, see below. There is some information that seems to be missing from this bio article, which I'll go into more about later.

B. Focused:
Seems long enough, but may need more information to be complete.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
A very "by-the-facts" article, with no editorializing about the subject.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Most contributions in the past few months made by just one editor.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
I wonder if you could add more images, perhaps of the other parties mentioned? I'll make suggestions as I get to know the article better.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
Not yet, needs additional work to get it up to snuff. See below. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Prose review

As is my practice, I use this space to explain any copy-edits and suggestions I may have. If I have a question, I ask it here. This is also the place for discussion to occur. As I state above, I tend to copy-edit as I go.

Thanks, your copyedits were helpful. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Criteria 2A: Yes, the subject is notorious, but the article is still a BLP, and should be structured like one. Most bios have information about the subject's date and place of birth, and something about his or her early life. Who was Villarreal's parents? How did he get from being born in the U.S. to being a cartel leader in Mexico? Where did he go to school? What was he doing before crime? Of course, if the information isn't available, you can't add it. If it is, you should add an "Early life" section, even if it's short.

As I mentioned below, I have not been able to find any information on his early life or initial stages of his career. I assume he was a mid-tier leader prior to the Gulf Cartel's internal power struggle, which occurred in 2011. I just sent a tweet to The Monitor's crime expert Ildefonso Ortiz and asked him if he has any sources available. [1] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, that's acceptable. Having access to that kind of information will definitely be helpful, especially if you decide to go forward to FAC with this article. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Criminal career

I'd like to see the sentences in the first paragraph tightened up a bit. There are grammatical errors, and you use too many words that make the prose unclear and clunky, something that occurs throughout this article. In the second sentence, do you mean "were" instead of "where"? How about: "According to the government report, Villarreal operated as the second-in-command in the Gulf Cartel. He led armed confrontations against the cartel's rival group Los Zetas in Tamaulipas, Nuevo León, and its neighboring states in northern Mexico. They were united during the late 1990s and led by Osiel Cárdenas Guillén, but they separated in early 2010 and went to war with each other following several rivalries and leadership voids caused by Cárdenas Guillén's arrest and extradition."

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reportedly, Villarreal had ordered his henchman in South Texas to carryout several kidnappings in the Rio Grande Valley in 2011 and take their victims by force to Mexico after a cocaine shipment was stolen. Needs tightening, and it's unclear. You say that V ordered his henchman in So. Texas to kidnap people in the Rio Grande Valley. Couldn't you just say that the victims were kidnapped in the Rio Grande Valley and brought to Mexico? "By force" is unnecessary, since kidnapping is usually by force.

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Villarreal later became a key player in this event in the first quarter of 2013. I don't understand this sentence. How could V be "a key player in this event" in 2013, when it (I assume the murder of Flores Borrego) happened back in 2011? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:07, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified. Villarreal "later became a key player in the cartel's internal strife in the first quarter of 2013". ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reported deaths

Back in October 2011, he was reported dead by a Texan media outlet during an infighting in the cartel in the city of Valle Hermoso, Tamaulipas. The word "back" is unencyclopedic; I'd remove it. What does "during an infighting" mean? Please explain and clarify. You also don't need "in the city of".

Fixed. Clarified by saying "following the Gulf Cartel's internal power struggle that broke out in September 2011" instead of "during an infighting." ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Following a shootout between drug traffickers and the Mexican Armed Forces on 14 August 2012, a Mexican media outlet alleged that Villarreal was killed in Reynosa, Tamaulipas. Although it's not technically grammatically correct, I don't think it's best practice to start a sentence with a prepositional phrase. The media doesn't "allege"; they report or claim. How about restructuring it like this: "A Mexican media outlet claimed that Villarreal was killed during a shootout between drug traffickers and the Mexican Armed Forces in Reynosa, Tamaulipas on 14 August 2012."

Thank you for the suggestion. Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I notice that you're using British spelling. Can I ask why, since the article is Mexican in subject? I have no problems with the usage, but I'd think you'd choose American usage, since the U.S. is closest. It doesn't matter to me, but please make sure that it's consistent. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I don't know why I was using British spelling ... I guess it's because I hardly know the difference between the two.

Facepalm ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha. This might help: American and British English spelling differences. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gulf Cartel infighting

It's not enough to put an article re-direct in a separate section. I recommend that you at least summarize the article here. You can use its lead, but make sure that you make connections between this topic and Villarreal. Or you can simply remove the section and put the article in the "See also" section.

There's some background information on his career section when it talks about Samuel Flores Borrego's death. Since it is linked in the article, I removed it from the See also secton per WP:ALSO. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Battle with Mario Pelón Ramírez

On the night of 10 March 2013, the Gulf Cartel lived an internal strife when gunmen loyal to Villareal and henchmen of Mario Pelón Ramírez clashed in a three-hour gunfight in Reynosa, paralyzing the avenues and streets of the city while the Mexican Armed Forces missed most of the fighting. "Lived" is incorrect here. Who is Ramirez? Don't assume that we know all the parties involved, and please provide us with a short statement explaining who he is. Why did the MAF miss the fighting? Did they just not show up?

Thanks, it's fixed now. To answer your question, the sources doesn't say why the MAF missed most of the fighting. It just says that the "Mexican authorities were absent for most of the melee", and then jumps to explain other stuff. [2] I can remove this if you want, though. I don't think it's that important, nor if it's necessarily true. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the shootout, unofficial reports claimed that Villarreal's ally, Jesús García Román (El Puma), was killed. And that high-ranking Gulf Cartel leader Sergio Ortegón Silva (Comandante Cortez), who heads the faction known as Los Ceros (The Zeros), confronted Villarreal and his forces. The second sentence is an incomplete sentence. I recommend that you add "Other reports stated that..." You also mix your tenses; please changed "heads" to "headed", or even better, "led".

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence of the 2nd paragraph again mixes tenses, especially the multiple usages of the word "has". Please fix.

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, he distrusted Villarreal because he had ties with his rival Juan Mejía González (El R1). There are too many pronouns, which makes it unclear. How about this: "In addition, Ramírez Treviño distrusted him because Villarreal had ties with Ramírez Treviño's rival Juan Mejía González (El R1)."

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stratfor indicates that the infighting between both men might have triggered after Villarreal allegedly betrayed the Gulf Cartel and started working with Heriberto Lazcano Lazcano (El Lazca), the deceased leader of the rival Los Zetas cartel. What is Stratfor? You link it, but I think you should include a short definition. "Indicates" should be past tense. "Might have triggered": It's better to say something like "occurred" or "might have been caused by", because an inanimate concept like "infighting" doesn't trigger anything. How could Villarreal work with someone who's deceased? That's unclear; please explain and clarify. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:47, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. As for Lazcano, I changed it from "deceased" to "former" (he was killed in October 2012). I hope this is fine. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Throughout 2011 and 2012, Mexican media outlets reported in two occasions that Villarreal had been killed in armed confrontations with rival drug traffickers and Mexican law enforcement officers.' You can't report in; you must report on. You state here in the lead that there were two reports about Villarreal's death. Please include that in the body, with the appropriate references, of course.

This information was backed up by the "Reported death" section, which was merged with Criminal career. Sources #8 and #4 back up the reports. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By then, the Gulf Cartel was suffering from an internal strife, as rival factions within the organization were fighting amongst each other for the control of the Tamaulipas and the cartel. The phrase "suffering from" is unencyclopedic. I'd restructure things a bit: "By then, rival factions within the Gulf Cartel were fighting amongst each other for the control of the Tamaulipas and the cartel."

Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, you identify Stratfor here; I suggest you do the same in the body, as I state above. Remember, the lead summarizes the rest of the article; also remember that everything in the lead must be in the body.

Don't know how I missed that. Thanks. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The shootout was due to an apparent power grab herald by Mario Ramírez Treviño, another high-ranking drug lord of the Gulf Cartel who wanted to kill him and his associates to thereby lead the cartel as the undisputed kingpin. "Herald" (a person who announces) is used incorrectly. Perhaps you meant the verb "heralded"? It's still not the best choice, though. This sentence is very unencyclopedic. How about: "The shootout was caused by an attempt by Mario Ramírez Treviño, another high-ranking drug lord of the Gulf Cartel, who wanted to remove his rivals and become the undisputed leader of the cartel."

Fixed.

After thinking about it some after saving the above discussion about the "Reported deaths" section, I want to request that you change its title because it sounds like Villarreal died more than once. Actually, I suggest that you remove the section and simply place the small paragraph in the previous section.

Fixed.

I know that I'm being pretty picky here, but to be honest, it's warranted. I recommend that you work on the prose, and the few structural issues I have with the article. I'm happy to assist you however you need. Good luck. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I don't think you're being picky. I appreciate your input and I'm glad to accept your concerns and your final decision. Thanks for thorough review. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tough article. I don't think an empty section for Gulf Cartel infighting is acceptable, there should at least be a summary within the article. My initial perception is that I have the feeling he is a very notable druglord and that this probably fails on "main aspects" in particular and quality of prose. As a biographical article it seems to have a major problem with recentism, surely something must be known about his earlier life? It reads a bit like a newspaper/magazine in a lot of parts. I wouldn't pass it, needs quite a bit of work in my opinion.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 17:52, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. ☠ Blofeld, I haven't found anything on his early life and career, nor have I not found any mentions of him prior to 2012. The earliest source of him I've found in my research dates back to January 2012, though I'm sure there are court documents of him from 2011. [3] Given this information, I think Villarreal is not a "very notable drug lord"; he falls more in the "regional, local warlords" category. [4] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 18:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm aware that he isn't as notable as somebody like Pablo Escobar but he seems pretty notable to me. If no earlier bio details are available, fair enough, but I'm still not convinced your article cuts the mustard for GA.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:59, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think he's that notable. He is not mentioned in any U.S. Department of State indictment that date back to the "old-generation" drug traffickers of the Gulf Cartel like Tony Tormenta, Jorge Eduardo Costilla Sanchez, and others. Villarreal is just a regional kingpin that had the chance to climb up the ladder for a while when other top men were arrested or killed, but he faced the same fate as they did. I got a direct message on my Twitter from The Monitor's crime expert and he told me that he couldn't find anything on his early life. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:09, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Eric Corbett

This article clearly fails GA criterion 2a as it's currently presented. A biography that only covers the last two years or so of someone's life isn't really much of a biography. The article is clearly centred on the shootout and its background, but Villareal wasn't the only one involved in that. So even if it were renamed to reflect its actual subject it still wouldn't meet the GA criteria. Eric Corbett 13:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like consensus agrees. I agree that changing the focus and a title change would help, even if it's something like Criminal career of Miguel Villarreal. I can imagine the possibility of a notorious criminal not having any information about his early life, and like the others here, I agree that the lack of that information means that this article isn't a bio. I also think that there needs to be more information about Villarreal's involvement in the cartel infighting. I recommend that we let this article fail for now, which would allow ComputerJA to include these things, and then resubmit. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed completely.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:46, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you all for your comments/suggestions. I am OK with the final decision. I couldn't find any information on his early life, but I do understand now that the article does not meet the requirements for GA either way. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]