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I dont think the last set of edits are relevant to the page or topic. The late 2000's included a industry recognized rise of the microdistillery. The people and brands listed on the page were important players in a movement that is rapidly undoing 50 years of industry consolidation... and rapidly changing the market. What was put up in place of this article is a history of distillation that belongs on a very different page. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitterherbs1 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The list of distillers is subjective and surely going to change in the very near future. It does not belong in a general encylopedic entry on the subject. Gussying up "micrddistillery" as some kind of new age liquour process ignores the underlying reality that these operations are one step up from a moonshiner in the hills. Perfumers, essence manufacturers and absinthe makers put a lot of effort into their compositions and products and yet they are ignored in this article to promote a few selected for-profit businesses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marshmallowbunnywabbit (talk • contribs) 21:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]


So how do we reconcile this. You have put up a page describing the most celebrated segment of the distilled spirits industry as nothing special? You included a history of distillation that if anywhere belongs under distilled spirits not the microdistillery movement page. I get the impression that you have something against the whole movement by patently denying its existence and comparing its celebrities to moonshiners in the hills? This is like the processed food industry thumbing its nose at Thomas Keller. Regarding your commentary on absinthe makers being left out... I specifically referenced the top three absinthe makers in the world in the list? Did you actually read it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitterherbs1 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In an article about MICRO-distilleries, I am not sure how Bitterherbs would have justified the inclusion of the TOP THREE absinthe makers. Who decided that these are the top 3? Is this on the basis of the number of cases sold? (And if so, where do the figures come from?). If on the basis of quality/reputation, we're back in the world of subjectivity if we decide to list one distiller rather than another.
Having said that, the article seems a little subjective already in listing two US microdistilleries (Anchor and Dogfish Head), while not listing any European distilleries. So there could be a rationale for listing and linking European distilleries that have a separate WP article already (meaning that they have already been agreed to be notable). Alanmoss (talk) 05:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just put up a version that outlines the movement without specifically referencing any famous distilleries or people. Though I think the belong there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitterherbs1 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looks better to me, though it glosses over the underlying reality that a boutique distillery is little different than the little operations in Paris of the 19th century making potions and perfumes (and absinthe) or really, not much different than George Washington making 'shine' at Mt. Vernon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marshmallowbunnywabbit (talk • contribs) 22:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point Alan. Feel free to add to the article. I think those contributions could be useful. We could also make it totally brand neutral. As for the three top distillers... ok that was a bit subjective. I was going off awards and publicity in the USA. I suppose it is best not to have any names here or form a giant laundry list. There are at least 100 notable chefs in this kitchen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.34.65.19 (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Couls someone elaborate on what is meant by celebrity distillers? It is not clear whether they are celebrities as a result of distilling, or whether Jay Leno etc have decided to set up a distillery as a sideline. Or maybe I'm being stupid... PeterS2009 (talk) 09:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I take it more to mean the former (they become famous as a result of distilling), although there are celebrities like Donald Trump who has a vodka. I doubt if he knows how to make vodka!

More to the point, however, I don't see that the concept of celebrity distillers is at all relevant to the article. Who decides who's a celebrity and who isn't? The distiller him/herself, his/her acolytes, some of the friendly (indiscriminating) press? Hardly NPOV. And if a distiller becomes a celebrity, then his/her product will be so popular, it may no longer be micro-distilled! Alanmoss (talk) 09:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371873/

Errors and US-focus of article

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"A microdistillery is a small, often 'boutique', distillery, most commonly in the United States." Is there numerical evidence of this? What about Scotland, France, Siwtzerland, Italy, Germany, etc. Much of this opening paragrpah is US-focused and forgets the fact that small distilleries operated in Europe prior to prohibition, throughout the prohibition era, and since.

"In the 1990's the liquor industry established the notion of super premium spirits." Remy Martin claim to have launched Louis X111 in 1874.

The whole of the Celebrity Distiller paragraph seems flawed to me and is again US-focused.

"Prior to the microdistillery movement, distillation was largely viewed as a high tech industrial activity and little attention was paid to the makers of spirits." Who viewed it this way? Single malts, such as The Macallan, were not viewed as high tech or industrial, and the head distillers of many single malts were used extensively in brand promotion and PR.

In summary, do the writers of this article want to write about US microdistilleries or global microdistilleries? Alanmoss (talk) 05:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - To redress the US focus I have added references to 4 distilleries based in London, the home of London Dry Gin (despite this product actually being legally produced anywhere in the world.) Two of these are microdistilleries - one appears to produce gin and vodka, and the other just gin. Does anyone have examples of microdistilleries elsewhere in the world apart from the US? I'm sure France and Germany are good candidates, though the Miclo distillery in Alsace seems too big for inclusion. User:peterS2009 —Preceding undated comment added 09:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Blog about micro-distilleries in Japan [1]

One in Wales [2]

Several absinthe micro-distilleries, mainly in France and Switzerland [3] Alanmoss (talk) 13:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would propose "In the 1990's the liquor industry popularized the notion of super premium spirits." I think there are many important micro-distilleries around the world. Can anyone speak to whether or not they have disrupted the industry else ware, as they have in the USA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bitterherbs1 (talk • contribs) 14:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Super premium spirits is NOT a 1990's phenomenon. I already wrote:

"Remy Martin claim to have launched Louis X111 in 1874."

In any case, and as has already been noted, micro-distilleries are not just about super premiums.

Disruptive? I suppose you could look at single malts and say that the development of these over the last 20 years has had a significant effect. But they are still much smaller than blends. By definition, micro-distilleries are unlikely to be a big factor in the market, because they cannot scale up to be disruptive. Alanmoss (talk) 06:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Leopold Distillery

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It is perhaps inappropriate to describe Leopold Bros. as "an example of a microdistiller that began as a microbrewery, and now operates as a distillery alone.". The owners of Leopold Brewing completely closed their operation in Michigan and moved to Denver where they opened a new distillery completely separate from their brewery. It is an example of brewer who left the brewing industry and went on to open a separate distillery. Brawlings (talk) 23:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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