Talk:Methods of praying the rosary

Clean up

What does wikify mean? What kind of cleanup does it need? Why is it insufficient context? --Maria Bernada (talk) 20:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Clean up means that the article needs to be edited for clarity, spelling, grammar, tone, structure, and sourcing. In some cases articles may need to extensively reorganized or even rewritten. You can learn more at Wikipedia:Cleanup. Wikification means to add standard Wikipedia mark up to the text. This includes properly formatted sources, but more importantly internal links. (See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)) Insufficent context means that someone coming to the article wouldn't know what it's about. Most have that has been taken care of now that some clean up has occured, but the article will need a new first sentence to establish context. Dgf32 (talk) 17:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement

I completed the clean up, and we now have a nice stub. Obviously, the article needs to be expanded with descriptions of what exactly the five methods are. Dgf32 (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Iagree, it looks better now, but the reader has no idea what these methods are. I will try to add something. History2007 (talk) 19:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Reading this section might be helpful: IV. MONTFORT’S METHODS OF RECITING THE ROSARY on this page: http://www.ewtn.com/library/montfort/Handbook/Rosary.htm Also you can see my original article on my userpage for reference. --Maria Bernada (talk) 16:35, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

That is a nice link and should be added to the article. But it is long and you will find that most people will not read through 20 pages, that was why I summarized the Motford method, and made sure we do not step on various copyrights. But please do add that link with a few sentences. Thanks History2007 (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I did not mean that you should copy and paste them; I meant you could use it as a reference to help you summarize the methods. Also didn't you copy and paste the prayers from the copyrighted material, just on a smaller scale than me? --Maria Bernada (talk) 19:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I am busy with too many things to do all of that. I think this topic is your specialty, and you obviously know more about it. I can just add a link, if you like. History2007 (talk) 20:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I thought you were planning to summarize the five methods, sorry. I'll do it sometime.--Maria Bernada (talk) 22:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, great. History2007 (talk) 22:34, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll be doing my draft on this talk page. Maria Bernada (talk) 00:15, 5 May 2008 (UTC) To be added right under the introduction:.

Look, you know these methods better than anyone else on Wikipedia, so just go ahead and add them. But please do so after the overview, so the progression is gradual. Just keep the size managable, so people will not get tired of reading them. I already made a template for your use. Thank you. History2007 (talk) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You have got to provide some kind of meaningful information about the methods other than that particular prayers are said at particular times. Reading the section on the five methods gives the reader little to no information about what the methods are or how they differ from the usual way of reciting the rosary, or how the methods differ. Simply telling which prayers are said adds little value. Saying that "a certain prayer" or "certain prayers" are said is pretty useless. Anyone is welcome to write about the five methods, but I don't see any reason for keeping any of the content in that section for now. Dgf32 (talk) 18:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

if I added a little explanation to what the "certain prayers" are about would that be ok? I think it's essential to point out the differences between the methods.

Here's my suggestion for you. Instead of simply rewriting what the instructions are, you should find sources of information that talk about the five methods, their development, history, use, spiritual benefit, etc. How do the methods differ?

One major difference in the methods are the difference in prayers. Maria Bernada 18:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

What was St. Louis de Montfort's reasons for composing each of the methods.

St. Louis wrote:

"In order to facilitate the exercise of the Holy Rosary, here are several methods to recite it holily, with the meditation of the joyful, sorrowful and glorious mysteries of Jesus and Mary. You stop at that which is most to your liking: you can form yourself another particular method, as several saintly persons have done." ("Afin de vous faciliter l'exercice du saint Rosaire, voici plusieurs méthodes pour le réciter saintement, avec la méditation des mystères joyeux, douloureux et glorieux de Jésus et de Marie. Vous vous arrêterez à celle qui sera le plus à votre goût: vous pourrez vous en former vous-même une autre méthode particulière, comme plusieurs saints personnages ont fait.")

So the reason is to facilitate praying the Rosary for various tastes.

You will have to use verifiable secondary sources. You will have to find books where writers have written about the methods. If there is no body of secondary works on the methods, then they are not notable enough to be in Wikipedia. If they are notable, you will have no problem finding materials written about them. You can not compose an article based purely on the instruction page from the Montfort Missionaries. You will have to find sources to gather information. This is how every article on Wikipedia is written, and this article will not be any different. You need more sources. Dgf32 (talk) 18:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

IV. MONTFORT’S METHODS OF RECITING THE ROSARY on this page: http://www.ewtn.com/library/montfort/Handbook/Rosary.htm (will paraphrase what the book says about the methods when opportunity offers) --Maria Bernada 18:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I will now clean up the page, retaining all the meaninful content. Anyone should feel free to contribute information that is not original research and that is supported by verifiable citations. Dgf32 (talk) 18:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you mind if I work on a draft on this page? That way under your supervision the expansion might be done in an acceptable way. --Maria Bernada 02:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maria Bernada (talk • contribs)

It's not supervision. I just want to make sure you understand the type of content on Wikipedia and the quality standards for content on Wikipedia. Dgf32 (talk) 20:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The Five Methods of St. Louis-Marie

First method

1. The prayer "Come Holy Ghost" is recited, in which one denounces the distractions that may come while saying the Rosary.
2. An offering prayer for the whole Rosary, composed by St. Louis-Marie, is recited.
3. A short prayer--asking for a particular virtue associated with the mystery at hand--is recited, and at the end of the decade there is a concluding prayer.

Second method

A few words related to the mystery at hand are added to "...Fruit of thy womb, Jesus..." part of the Hail Mary, to help be focused on the mystery better. This is an old German custom. For example, for the mystery of crucifixion, one would recite "...thy womb, Jesus crucified."

Third method

1. This method is a combination of the first and second methods, for the use of Daughters of Wisdom.

• The additional prayers are slightly different from those of the first method

• In the tenth decade, the intercession of the nine choirs of angels is asked.
• A prayer to St. Joseph composed by St. Louis-Marie is recited three times at the end of the Sorrowful mysteries.
• In the fifteenth decade, the intercession of all the saints is asked.
• At the end of the fifteenth decade, a prayer to the Blessed Virgin composed by St. Louis-Marie is said and concluded by the Superior saying "Nos cum prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria. Amen" (May the Virgin Mary with her Loving Son bless us.).

Fourth method

There is a small reflection on the life of Jesus/Mary for each bead, usually associated with the 15 mysteries.

The title of this method is "Summary of the life, death, passion and glory of Jesus and Mary in the Holy Rosary," which is expansion of mysteries by reflecting on significant details of the fifteen mysteries and noting related mysteries. For example, the mystery of the Finding of Jesus covers the whole laborious part of his life:

• 1. Ave: To honor his hidden, laborious and obedient life at Nazareth.
• 2. Ave: His preaching and his being found in the temple among the doctors.
• 3. Ave: His fasting and his temptations in the desert.
• 4. Ave: His baptism by St. John the Baptist.
• 5. Ave: His wonderful preaching.

(etc.) Similarly, for the mystery of the Assumption, the whole life of Mary--starting from her predestination and Immaculate Conception--is reflected.

Fifth method

Small reflection for each bead regarding the Rosary itself; its power, its history, its prayers, in what manner it is to be said, etc.

References

Permission to use Copyrighted Material

Email that I got today:

The USA province of the Company of Mary (to whom copyright in "God Alone" belongs - © Montfort Publications 1987) has granted you permission to use quotations from the "Methods of Praying the Rosary" on your Wikipedia page. You should acknowledge this permission on the web page. All good wishes. From: allerton [AT] montfort.org.uk

--Maria Bernada 01:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Be sure that all material placed into the article is descriptive in nature, is written in full sentences in paragraph form with proper grammar, and maintains proper encyclopedic tone. Dgf32 (talk) 21:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

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