Talk:Merry Brandybuck/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Merry Brandybuck. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Doors of Moria

I've removed the reference to Merry helping to open the doors. In the book Gandalf figures it out almost completely on his own, and in the film Frodo has the insight. Merry only asks a question. Djbrianuk 22:20, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

True, but Gandalf himself then points out that Merry's line of thinking was on track the first time, and in the cast commentary Dom points out that he has received a lot of fan mail denouncing the change to having Frodo figure out the riddle instead of Merry, a fact of which Dom is very proud.

Witch-King

I don't have a copy of the book in front of me, and it is a minor consideration to say the least, but I could swear that he stabs the Witch-King in the back of the knee. Am I insane in thinking this? - KaoBear ^(talk) 23:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Merry's stroke specifically, 'pierced the sinews behind his mighty knee'... or words to that effect. --CBD 18:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Yay! I love it when someone confirms I am not stupid. - KaoBear ^(talk) 19:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

pictures

For real? We have pictures from Bakshi and some production of some otherwise unknown play (musical?) in Cincinnati, but nothing of Dominic Monaghan? That's ridiculous. john k 05:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Untitled

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Merry is the Fellowship of the Ring's best connection to the outside world.

This seems weird and strange to me. Anyone care to explain? Graft

Je ne sais pas. Pour cette raison, je n'ai pas l'include quand j'ai change le texte. (I don't know. For this reason, I didn't include it when I changed the text) Parelle

An anonymous user keeps adding some version of the following:

Merry has yellow hair which is unusual for a hobbit) and blue-green eyes.

Can any references be cited for this? I don't recall it, and no one else here seems to either, except for one user. Please offer supporting quotations. Jwrosenzweig 20:28, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

According to the book, his hair colour is brown. Thick, curly, brown hair. From TTT:

'May I lay the sword of Meriadoc of the Shire on your lap, Théoden King?' He cried. 'Recieve my service, if you will!'

'Gladly will I take it,' said the king; and laying his long old hands upon the brown hair of the hobbit, he blessed him. 'Rise now, Meriadoc, esquire of Rohan of the household of Meduseld!' he said."

Emphasis mine. As for his eyes, nothing comes to mind, but I’ll look for a quote. Jo r 22:06, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Good to know - I knew about the Pippin reference (which is golden hair) but I hadn't heard of any description of Merry. Perhaps this is a movie lover.Parelle

Original research tag

It is of course not original research that Meriadoc, who becomes knight of Rohan, was based on Meriadoc, founder of the house of Rohan. Given that this Meriadoc was an ancient English character, which was Tolkien's specialty, there can be little doubt, but likewise we cannot expect to have academic references for every little allusion in that author's works, can we? Anyway, here is a reference to a Celtic encyclopedia which mentions the coincidence. The author - who is no expert on Tolkien - mentions the likeness as possible. Sponsianus 22:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

There is tons of academic work on Tolkien, especially the background to Tolkien stuff in real world literary material. As you note, the author of the linked page is not an expert on Tolkien, and is merely speculating as to a possible connection of which she apparently has no real basis other than speculation. I don't think this webpage qualifies as a reliable source on Tolkien, so it's still OR. john k 05:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Very well, I added a more unanimous reference to the fact that Meriadoc and Rohan were taken from Breton names from a philosophical journal. Please replace it with a better reference if anybody has one. Sponsianus 23:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't "Meriadoc"/"Merry" used to represent a Westron name/nickname? 202.86.194.8 06:00, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that was how Tolkien arranged the suspension of belief. Old-fashioned Hobbit names were "translated" as Medieval names to emphasise their pompous timbre, and Hobbits with such names were given nick-names that Tolkien equalled to light-hearted English words, "Merry" and "Pippin", the latter being an apple.Sponsianus 10:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

May I suggest another name origin or influence. If you believe that Tolkien was a Medieval scholar, there is a Lord named Meriaduc in the Guigemar lay from the french lays by Marie de France in the late 12th century. It's pretty standard reading for medieval students so it's possible that Tolkien encountered this. I have no reason to believe that this particular instance meant anything to him, but it is a remote possibility. --Austin.McKnight (talk) 01:10, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

The Return of the Shadow makes it clear that the name Meriadoc was not created to resonate with "Rohan". The name Meriadoc replaced Marmaduke in an early phase of the composition, before the narrative had reached Rivendell, and long before there was any hint of the existence of Rohan, let alone its name. If anything, an argument might be made that the name Rohan was created to resonate with "Meriadoc" but this seems very dubious as well, since the special relationship of Merry with Rohan appeared quite a bit after the creation of the name Rohan. Mnudelman (talk) 20:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Copy Editing

I went through the article and did some basic copy editing, which included reworking a couple of the sentences for clarity. I also added a "citation needed" under the content section that goes over Merry's original name in the early drafts. I believe that this stems from Christopher Tolkien's "The Return of the Shadow," but I thought someone else might be more suitable to confirm that. I also added a couple more related links where necessary. Maefleur (talk) 00:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Merry Brandybuck/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 02:07, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Very kind of you to take this one on. Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Criteria

1. Prose ✓ Pass

2. Verifiability ✓ Pass

3. Depth of Coverage ✓ Pass

4. Neutral ✓ Pass

5. Stable ✓ Pass

6. Illustrations ✓ Pass

7. Miscellaneous ✓ Pass

Comments

1.

Is there a reason Tolkien is italicized in "Tolkien character" in the infobox? When I see Tolkien italicized, I think of the recent biopic.

Gone. It was in the "Series" parameter for some reason.

The adaptations section isn't summarized in the lead, it can probably be added by a brief sentence stating that he was a character in the Bakshi, Rankin/Bass, and Jackson films.

Added.

" and were laid to rest among the Kings of Gondor in Rath Dínen, then moved to lie next to Aragorn" - Link Aragorn here instead of in the next section

Done.

2.

Accessdates for refs 9 and 10

Done.

"Kalimac Brandagamba" is in the infobox, but isn't cited or referenced anywhere.

Tidied up the list.

Ditto with Holdwine of the Mark.

Ditto.

3.

I remember there being something about the character of Merry changing in the early drafts to the published history, I think he was actually named "Marmaduke" at first. Is this worth adding in your opinion?

He was. Not sure really; it's a bit "fifty fascinating funny facts" unless we have some point to make about it. Happy to put it in if you think it necessary.

Probably best to leave it out; the drafting history isn't really significant except for maybe Aelfwine and a few similar things. Not really important here.

4.

5.

6.

Fair use rationales are all good.

Noted.

7.

"Marmaduke Brandybuck" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Marmaduke Brandybuck. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 15#Marmaduke Brandybuck until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm _Bacon 02:13, 15 August 2020 (UTC)