Talk:Menon (title)
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[edit]Could someone add links to notables. B Nambiar 15:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Peacock items
[edit]Kindly keep the menon article anthropologically fidel and please donot repeatedly add peacock items. In case of paliam family you have to provide appropriate citation.Users Anandks007 and Nunquam Dormio have been repeatedly reverting and editing it back to inadequately referenced and peacock stories prolific sections and versions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 09:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
- There is no peacocking going on and you are repeatedly vandalizing the article by adding unwanted symbols like ā instead of a and adding biased and out of date information. Axxn (talk) 10:13, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
- In Malabar Menon title was held by the Chavers, not the scribes (as was the case in Cochin). Only a few were literary pioneers compared to the vast majority, who were soldiers. Axxn (talk) 10:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I am from North Malabar myself and Nambiar by birth although a non-casteist and a researcher of anthropology of social mobility in medeival and post colonial Kerala and perfectly understand what peacocking Anandks007 and others are doing on the Menon article. Actually you are the ones wo are vandalizing. Where is the references for ?
1. The royal families of Cochin and south Malabar marry only from Menon families – peacock usage a total bull shit. There may have been individual instances if so they have to be cited properly.
2. You may want to check out topics like vedas, sanskrit and innumerale articles where such phonetic symbols are used.It is for the facilitate phonetic understanding and has been extensively used in wikipedia. Otherwise you have option of simple english version of wikipedia.
3.Adequate reference is required for Paliam family is a menon family
These are only a few examples for how peacocking is done in the menon article. Any student of anthropology with a decent knowledge that Menon is a matrilinial hereditary or non -her title granted to scribes. Some families who had this title also engaged in the military profession or were landlords like any other Nayar subsects and is not peculiar to the dignity of menon.
- OK Mr.Nambiar (who thinks he is something above and different from all Nairs). Let me explain a few things.
- (1) Male members of the Cochin Royal family used to marry only Menon women. But things have changed now and currently they (both males and females) marry Varmas, Menons as well as Brahmins.
- (2) Paliam family is a Menon family. Paliath Govinda Menon, who led the battle against the British was the Paliath Achan during 19th century.
- (3) Phonetic symbols are used to specify the differences in pronounciation. It is not used for common spelling. It can be used on 3-4 occassions in an article, but can't be used everywhere, if the most commonly spelling is different. Axxn (talk) 10:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
- OK Mr.Nambiar (who thinks he is something above and different from all Nairs). Let me explain a few things.
FACTS about Peacock items
[edit]1. Menon is a profession title means head clerk. All nairs are Shudra the servents to namboohiri and how come they become "ROAyL" or is it the meaning of "royal".
2. Male members of cochin royal family engaged in asambandham unions with Nayar women of Kerala and is not restricted to those dignified as menon alone. So only individual cases of such unions with menons existed . So this claim that it is “only” to menon women is bogus. If you have any source that it was restricted to menons you must cite it in the article. (What stupid acts)
3. Paliath Govindan Achan (and not Govinda menon) was the last Paliath Achan to occupy the position of Prime Minister in the Kingdom of Cochin until 1825. Infact Nadavarambu Kunhikrishna Menon who succeded Paliath Givindachan was a rival of the Paliam family. Paliath Govindan achan was imprisoned and later died in 1832 in Benares. Diwans of Cochin Thottakkat Govinda Menon (son of Sankunni Warrier) and later his brother of Thottakkat Sankunni Menon were all appointees to the office of Diwan of cochin after the hereditary prime minister ship of the Paliam family to cochin was abolished by the Raja of Cochin and did not belong to the Paliam family.So donot confuse between paliath Govindan achan and Thottakkat Govinda Menon. Inspite of these historical facts if you have statements in a historical document that Paliam family was a menon family then you should cite it in the article otherwise the claim is bogus.
So i am reverting the article to keep it accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.201.1.30 (talk) 09:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 12:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Paliyath Swaroopam
[edit]Paliath swaroopam was actualy menons and they assumed the title of "achans" later on,Cochin rajas always address the paliyath valiyachan as menon.reference Kottaratil Shankuni's "Ayithiha mala". Aiyihya mala is he biggesy blunt book ever written —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.201.1.30 (talk) 09:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Where is
[edit]Bhavana, Nithya Menon, etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Govindsharma (talk • contribs) 05:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Kindly keep the article devoid of peacock terms and adequately referenced . Users like Anandks07 and Linguisticgeek are simply engaged in ego satistfying reversals. In case there is discontent about a section let us discuss about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 08:38, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
The menon article has peacock terms without citation as described in the discussion section of the article. The article has been modified by me several times with appropriate citation and during these i have mentioned the reasons. However inspite of this you seem to be reverting or undoing to an older version that has inadequate citation and prolofic peacock claims.I am therefore reverting it to the properly referenced version without peacock terms. I encourage you to participate in a discussion and not to revert to inadequately cited older version. Such repeated reversals by you to older version of the article which is inadequately referenced and has peacock terms amounts to edit war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
In "Artists and entertainers" section, one prominent name is missing. Its none other than Maruthur Gopalan Ramachandran alias MGR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.99.44.175 (talk) 10:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
i prof dr t m saratchandraprasad panicker-thazhathuveetil am also a hindu menon panicker belonging to the kiriyathil nair kshathriya caste with pure kshathriya blood on the thazhathuveetil FAMILY side being founded by kattile karanavar shankaranarayana pillai who is sanctified and worshipped at thazhathuveetil tharavad which is more than 350 yrs old at karumalloor alangad,the thazhathuveetil family traces it origins to north central kerala with many illustrious descendants including parur t k narayanapillai first chief prime minister of travancore-cochin ,i am personally a recipient of the EMINENT CITIZEN OF INDIA AWARD ,AND A VISHISHTA CHIKITSA MEDAL,FROM THE GOVT OF INDIA, OTHER AWARDS I HAVE RECIEVED INCLUDE A SHIROMANI AWARD,GOLD MEDALIST AND DISTINGUISHED PRACTITIONER AWARD AND I AM THE FIRST ALLOPATHIC DOCTOR IN INDIA TO CERTIFY THE FIRST THREE DEATHS DUE TO TRASFUSION AIDS WITH ALL ITS COMPLICATIONS ON 3 SUCCESSIVE NIGHTS IN CHRISTIAN MEDICAL COLLEGE VELLORE 23 YRS AGO I HAVE BEEN ATTACHED TO THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS IN IRELAND IN DUBLIN AS [HON] PROF FOR THE PAST 15 YRS AND AS CONSULTANT PHYSICIAN [HON] TO BEAUMONT HOSPITAL DUBLIN FOR 16 YRS,INCIDENTALLY FROM THE THE THARAMEL PANICKER SIDE I HAVE INHERITED VAISHNAVITE HINDU ARYAN BHATTATHIRI BRAHMIN BLOOD AS MY MATERNAL GRANDFATHER WAS THARAMEL GOVINDA PANICKER SHIVARAMA PANICKER , LATE S R PANICKER WHOSE FATHER NARAYANA BHATTATHIRI WAS FROM PALUR MANA NORTH PARUR AND MOTHER WAS A THARAMEL KUNJAMMA INCIDENTALLY THERE WAS A STRONG FAMILY HISTORY OF DIABETES IN BOTH THE THAZHATHUVEETIL AND THARAMEL THAVAZHIS AND I MYSELF HAVE PRACTISED CARDIDIABETOLOGY AS A PREFERRED SPECIALITY FOR THE PAST 2O YRS AND HAVE DONE CONSIDERABLE RESEARCH WORK AND CONDUCTED CLINCAL TRIALS IN INDIA AND IRELAND ,INCIDENTALLY I AM ALSO LEGAL HEIR TO THARAMEL ACHUTHA PANICKER WHO WAS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST JENMIS[LANDLORDS,ZAMINDARS] OF HIS TIME —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.97.46.153 (talk) 23:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
i prof dr t m saratchandra prasad panicker , from the thazhathuveetil tharavad at karumalloor alangad aluva kerala , am a MENON PANICKER ,from one of the most aristocratic caste hindu kiriyathil nair families of north central kerala with a number of thavazhis spread all over kerala and i am probably with one of the largest set of family members any where in the world,i am an awardee-eminent citizen of india,vishisht chikitsa medal, shiromani award,gold medalist,and distinguished practitioner award ,a practising overseas trained consultant physician,trained in various centres of excellence in india and ireland and i am a certified specialist in cardiology ,diabetes,occupational diseases and chest medicine holding multiple exit conferred fellowships and an M R C S ATTAINED FROM THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS IN IRELAND,I ALSO ATTAINED THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS ON THE 16 TH OF MAY 1994, I AM ALSO A THARAMEL PANICKER BEING A LEGAL HEIR TO THARAMEL GOVINDA PANICKER SHIVARAMA PANICKER [LATE S R PANICKERS] LEGAL HEIR AND GRAND SON AND ALSO GREAT GRAND SON AND LEGAL HEIR TO THARAMEL ACHUTHA PANICKER WHO WAS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST JENMIS [LANDLORDS-ZAMINDARS OF HIS TIME]WITH EXTENSIVE INHERITED AND ACQUIRED ASSETS ALL OVER ERNAKULAM DISTRICT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.225.106.111 (talk) 05:46, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Menon Panicker
[edit]I think we need to elaborate more about all the sub-divisions, especially Menon panicker as they were the creamy layer , most close to zamorins & other rajas & running a royal line in palagat as in this article has mentioned. Do any one have referenced facts about them?? Personally i know they used to supply army to zamorin & have been high ranked officers in zamorin's army & menon paniker women were married to zamorin or others from samoothiri kovilakam. Am not a historian to show any reference to above facts. [so cannot put in Wikipedia also] so if some one historically inclined can check there vast collections & put some thing about it here will enlighten every one & Some of those informations will be definitely new for me also, Am looking forward to see all that . Thank you . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.171.8.217 (talk) 19:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
- Geographically also, Palakkad Menons were considered superior to other Menons. Chandrakantha.Mannadiar (talk) 08:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
etymology
[edit]royal family of palakade
[edit]The citation was from mathrubumi news paper. I think its credible enough. as the said news paper is one of the most reputed malayalam news paper. If no one have objection we can enter that data under menon paniker . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.191.229.119 (talk) 12:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
kshatria status
[edit]As pointed by some senior editors, menon is not a kshatria caste, but only a kshatria like caste. so I have written it accordingly.[caste of kshatria like function but no actual status] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.191.229.119 (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
In Kiriyathil-Illathu Nair community Nair, Menon, Nambiar, Panicker, Kurup, Pillai, Thampi etc. are only titles and not sub-castes. Sub-caste is either Kiriyathil Nair or Illathu Nair. Caste is Nair, religion is Hindu and category is General Category. Menons who belong to Kiriyathil Nair caste are called Kiriyam-Menons. Similarly, Nambiars who belongs to Kiriyathil Nair caste called Kiriyam-Nambiars. Kiriyathil-Illathu Nairs were called Thampuran and Thampurattiyar or Kammal and Ambaraal by their servants and the people who belonged to communities which were ranked lower than Nair.
From Census report 1961: "The Nairs of the village belong to the highest subdivisions known as Kiriyathil Nairs and Illathu Nairs. The former was also known as Vellaima Nairs to whom belonged to aristocratic classes such as Panicker, Kurup, Kaimal, Kartha, and Menon." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.219.50.5 (talk) 04:58, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
tamilian0
[edit]please give reference to back up your claim menon is a tamil name Sesshomaru666666 (talk) 02:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Why don't you give reference to back up the claim of the word being of Malayalam origin? Anyone who knows Tamil will know it is a pure Tamil word. Please do not create disturbance and learn to accept the truth. (Tamilan101 (talk) 02:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC))
Malayalam & tamil have common roots . so it is possible both languages have this term. I suggest removing 'tamil' as long as you cant provide citation, as menon is purely a Malayalam community. 'Everybody knows' doesnot count in WP. please provide citation & we will be more than happy to put your 'tamil' claims. Sesshomaru666666 (talk) 08:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
It is obvious that Tamil101 is a Tamil Nationalist, his/her disruptive edits must be blocked. 117.204.85.31 (talk) 17:28, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have removed the section. It can be reinstated when somebody comes up with a source that complies with our policies. - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Warlords
[edit]Can anyone come up with a reliable source verifying warlord status, please? - Sitush (talk) 07:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Fawcett and "royal family" as sources
[edit]Fawcett is an old British Raj source and such things are not considered to be reliable, as also is Edgar Thurston. Equally, the "royal family" source is inherently unreliable, if only because there are no royal families in India yet this lot still claim to be such. This has been determined to be unreliable at WP:RSN. These are why I have been reverting various anons from Karnataka. - Sitush (talk) 18:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
- The IP has just added this, which is clearly a mirror of Wikipedia (that is, it has just copied our content) and even more clearly a dodgy website generally. - Sitush (talk) 19:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
New source
[edit]Someone recently added "Kaanipayyoor Sankaran Nambudiripad, Reminiscenes, Kunnamkulam Press" as a source. It needs a page number and I am pretty sure the title is spelled incorrectly. However, and worse, I don't even think it is reliable - reminiscences are generally the opinion of the writer, not subject to independent editorial oversight. The publisher is also obscure. - Sitush (talk) 10:42, 5 April 2018 (UTC)