Talk:Meerkat Manor/Archive 4

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Archive 4

Meercat Manor#National Variations

For inexplicable reasons, an editor seems to think that the singular noun "content" should take the plural of the verb "to be" (are). Would someone who speaks English well and understands the grammatical niceties care to comment? Abtract (talk) 18:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It is not a singular noun "content" its two items "The content of the UK and US versions of the show" - two kinds of content are not two kinds of content is. The article was very thoroughly copyedited by someone well versed in "grammatical niceties" when it became an FA, and that sentence was there at the time[1]. Feel free to ask him yourself, though, User:Scartol, since you seem to have nothing better to do with your time/life than follow other people around just to disagree with them and leave your subtle insults. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, let's all take a deep breath. There's no need for grammar to ever get nasty. (Even when someone is so audacious as to rudely split his infinitives.) Let's remember that there is rarely one absolutely correct way to say or write something. While there are books that list The Official Rules™, deciding which books to trust is often complicated.

My dictionary, in the entry for "content", says: "usually contents". This – combined with my background understanding of the issue – suggests that it's really not a very important difference. There is certainly no Wikipedia ruling on this, and I don't believe it merits much scrutiny.

However, since I'm curious to know what he thinks, I'll ask Roger Davies to weigh in, since he's someone I trust when it comes to analyzing national varieties of English. – Scartol • Tok 19:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Trust me, its not the grammar but a much larger issue causing the nastiness. :) For the sentence, from my understanding content is usually pluralized content in a statement like this, though contents is also acceptable. I don't see the need for the S added, myself, though if it makes it clearer that it is a plural use to justify it being "are" instead of "is" then I'm fine with it so long as it is in keeping with British grammar rules as well. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 20:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

My take on this is that "content" suggests that the two versions are very similar (and they are effectively being grouped as one) whereas "contents" suggests they are not. I don't see this as an WP:ENGVAR issue. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 04:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...both episodes are similar, with only minor differences in a handful of the 40 episodes. So would content be more appropriate? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought so, though all that really matters in the great scheme of things is that the subject and verb concord (content/is contents/are) :) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 14:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty. I think I'll change back to content, though would it be content is or content are since the content here is still plural, just dropping the S? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me Roger has made it quite clear ... "(content/is contents/are)" ... so why are you insisting on "content/are"? Abtract (talk) 15:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Content when referring to multiples can be corrected noted with content are, not just content is, hence my request for clarification. When its received, I will adjust the article accordingly if needed. Why are you so insistent on continuing to stalk me despite numerous warnings not to and your own supposed claim that you've stopped. You are only changing it to continue to harass and be annoying. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

How weird ... we are in the middle of a debate about plural/singular and you suddenly accuse me of stalking. So far no-one has agreed with your view and Roger has made it quite clear that he thinks "content" should be aligned with "is" and "contents" with "are" yet you insist on taking a different line with your edits; and you have the temerity to advise me how to behave - wow!. Abtract (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

You are stalking. That's already been confirmed by multiple people. You've also been told to get away from articles your victims edit. The discussion can continue between myself and the others without your unnecessary commentary or interference. I'm not advising you on how to behave, I'm telling you to do as you've been repeatedly told to do and stop the harassment and stalking.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted Abtract's edit, as it appears to have been made as a violation of WP:STALK and WP:POINT. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

(od) I've just recast this sentence to remove the contentious phrasing. The sense is unaffected. The beauty of English is that there's always more than one way to skin a cat and it's much more productive to sidestep an issue than to battle it out. Oh, and apologies, I didn't notice the page was protected until after I'd tweaked it. Anyhow, I don't think the change should offend anyone so hopefully, problem sorted. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 07:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope, that's fine, thanks for finding another way to word it. It reads better that way. :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 08:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, a great improvement. Abtract (talk) 08:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Rocket Dog

I have proof that Rocket Dog died. AnmaFinotera said a long time ago that FKMP can be a verifiable source, so:

• http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/fileadmin/files/LH_reports/08_04_LH_report.pdf

You will see that under the LSEEN, Dead, etc. column, you scroll down to Whiskers and see "* VWF060". * means death, and VWF060 is Rocket Dog, proof of that is:

• http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/fileadmin/files/LH_reports/KMP_Name_List_Mar08.pdf

Cruise meerkat (talk) 01:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but we do not know how Animal Planet will deal with it or where it will fall within the fourth series/season, particularly considering what they did with the movie and the "meerkat actors." It also doesn't show how Rocket Dog has died and with it being spread across two pages, it can be seen as being borderline WP:OR. This page[2] however does say it specifically, so I will update the character page. Animal Planet has updated the site for season 4, so I'll be updating the info on the Aztecs shortly. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Meerkat Manor in the UK

Anyone know what is up with MM in the UK? I'm not seeing any fourth series premiere dates yet, and the AP UK site hasn't been updated in awhile. Has it been dropped in the UK? Was the movie aired there at all? The latter seems to have been a purely US AP creation, but curious to know for sure. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the UK is still in season 3. Someone from the UK on a fansite said they just watched Journey's End, which is in season 3. Cruise meerkat (talk) 21:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Series three aired completely last year. Guess they are still in reruns. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I heard a rumor that Meerkat Manor was not premiering in the UK. Just a rumor though. Idk if it is true or not. Meerkatxoxo (talk) 16:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

One of the recent news reports mentioning RD's death also noted that the series would be premiering in the UK later in the year (like they did last series/season). No sign they will get to see the movie though.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Protected

Article protected for a short time due to edit-warring. Black Kite 01:14, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Removal of addition under Meerkat Manor Criticism

Why is a forum site not reliable when it is used to reference the opinion of fans? Are not fan opinions valid? --Belleferret (talk) 18:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Forum postings of fans are not a reliable source. Deciding that some folks complaining on the Discovery forums is somehow reflective of overall opinions is original research and personal opinion. There are no reliable sources or professional reviews complaining about the change, which be the only way such information should be included. So basically, no, fan opinions are not valid unless they are being reported by a reliable source. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 20:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What is the justification for saying that? Provided the entry clearly states that some fans think blahblah, then citing a fansite is surely ok? Abtract (talk) 20:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn't, now do like you have been told by multiple admins and take this article off your watchlist and stop your damn stalking. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion

Fora usually cannot be regarded as a reliable source. As everyone can start publishing, while WP:RS states a "reliable publication process" is required. That clearly is not the case here. There also is WP:EL stating links to discussion fora should be avoided. Species8473 (talk) 03:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reasoned response. I'm still not quite sure why a fan forum can't be quoted as evidence of fans' opinion but thanks again. :) Abtract (talk) 08:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Besides the point of fora not being a reliable source, stating there is "considerable criticism from fans" can be regarded as original reasearch. As pointed out by AnmaFinotera previously. For this to be added in the article, it must first be published by a reliable source. All these policies exist to ensure articles are not filled with nonsense, and remain factual. In this instance there may be thousands of fans perfectly happy with the new narrator, while a small minority complains. It's also possible for a group of people to push an opinion on a forum. I could sign up, ask some friends to do the same, and together start creating topics on how Stockard Channing is in fact a far better narrator. Using that as source would end up with having some very bad information in wikipedia. I hope this explains the issue. Species8473 (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I see it now. Thanks for explaining it; how helpful that was. Abtract (talk) 11:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

A Few Amendments & Updates

I continue to be amazed at the quality of content on this page. All credit to you AnmaFinotera and whoever else has contributed.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with the processes behind Wikipedia so I've only just discovered my messages and worked out how you would like my contributions. Here are few:

Firstly, it is innacurate to list me with the "Editors" who cut the video and audio footage together. I am the "Series Editor" or you might call me "Senior Producer" or "Supervising Producer". It is an editorial role not to be confused with the technical role played by Renoir, Amanda etc.

On the subject of editors you need to add Matt Meech and Mike Bolsover who edited season 4.

You also need to add Hayley Smith and Chris Harries who were the Producers of Season 4.

With regard to the movie MM:The Story Begins, you have a quote from a US journalist saying that it was made from re-edited footage from the series. I categorically refute this. The footage for the movie was shot entirely separately from the series and specifically for the movie only.

Awards update:

We won the presigious Panda Award for Best Popular Programme at Wildscreen 2008 for Season 3 , ep 8 "Journeys End"

We have also just won the Grand Award : Family Programmes at New York Film & TV Festival 2009 for Meerkat Manor: The Next Generation (Season 4)

New York Festivals quote: “The Grand Trophy is the most prestigious award we present. The Grand Trophy Winners are selected from the top scoring Gold Awards for outstanding entry in all categories. Only 4 four Grand Trophies were awarded the 2009 festival. Winning a Grand Trophy is a prestigious honor reserved for the Best in Show.” You can read more on their website.

Thanks

Suricat (talk) 13:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks :) I've added the two additional editors and producers. I removed you as an editor (the infobox no longer has a field for supervising producer though). Unfortunately, for the film quote, unless there is a reliable source specifically refuting it (i.e. a press release, alternate report), per Wikipedia guidelines it generally must be kept. However, I will double check on that to see the best way to handle it. Congrats on the two new awards. I will add those as soon as I pull up the URLs :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the break out quote and rewrote the first bit to make it clearer that it was his opinion rather than a fact. Thanks again :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:15, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Sean Astin

Why isn't Sean Astin credited as one of the US narrators in the block at the right side of the page when he narrated 3 our of the 4 seasons? Keplerfan (talk) 19:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. "Our?" Are you also from Southern Star? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

"Our" was a typo... meant to write "out." Sorry for any confusion. Thank you for fixing the page. Keplerfan (talk) 21:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

No prob...just figured I'd ask since we've had some SS folks edit here before :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)