Talk:Medvedev–Tsitsipas rivalry

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 January 2023. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was proposed for deletion by Fyunck(click) (talk · contribs) on 9 January 2023.
It was contested by Hameltion (talk · contribs) on 2023-01-09

A fact from Medvedev–Tsitsipas rivalry appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 January 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in a tennis match against Stefanos Tsitsipas, Daniil Medvedev called the umpire "a small cat"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Medvedev–Tsitsipas rivalry.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that in a tennis match against Stefanos Tsitsipas, Daniil Medvedev called the umpire "a small cat"? Source: "After the set Medvedev asked the umpire if he speaks Greek and then called him 'a small cat' for not giving a code violation." Source
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Rizal Monument (Madrid)
- Comment: There are some spicier quotes in the article, but probably not suitable for main page

Created by Hameltion (talk). Self-nominated at 19:43, 8 January 2023 (UTC).[reply]

On hold pending resolution of AfD. If this is kept, feel free to ping me for a full review. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 07:19, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Tamzin looks like the AfD closed as Keep some time today 1-17-23. Bruxton (talk) 23:40, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems: - Given that this is about two people talking a lot of shit about each other, it's important to be strict on BLP.
- upset about some of his opponent's etiquette during the match and especially that Greek Tsitsipas apparently called him a "bullshit Russian" at the net Did he or didn't he say it? If Medvedev alleges it but Tsitsipas denied it, maybe something like ... during the match—including, he alleges, that Tsitsipas, who is Greek, called him ...
- With so much devoted to them saying mean things about each other, including extensive quotes, should there be a bit more about the "contrition" mentioned in § Reception? Genuine question; we wouldn't want false balance either.

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Quick note on the hook: Putting an insult against a living person on the Main Page is always a concern, but here I think it's okay given that 1) it's a pretty minor (almost comically minor, really) insult, b) it doesn't contain any provable statement of fact (i.e. it is not defamatory), and c) the subject of the insult is not named in the hook (only in the article, where there's more context). So with all that said, @Hameltion, if we can address the two points above this is good to go. Bit more quoting than I'd like, but just on a stylistic level; not enough to be a copyright issue. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 00:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review @Tamzin. Just made an edit re both points. Some sources are hedgy about "bullshit Russian" but others aren't, and Tsitsipas has never disputed that he said it (and the video bears it out if you turn up the volume). "Contrition" was kind of vague, so removed that and added briefly what the sources say match by match. Hameltion (talk, contribs) 16:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These changes address my concerns. :) I think this is a much better way to structure things and balances the article out better.

and I think I'll get to use my first {{DYKsmirk}}.

This might make a good quirky hook.^(?) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 16:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not really an article-worthy rivalry

Per WikiProject Tennis and wikipedia guidelines: According to WP:NRIVALRY, rivalries are not inherently notable. We can only have articles about tennis rivalries if there is significant media coverage about the rivalry. For example, great rivalries like Agassi–Sampras or Federer–Nadal warrant an article, but articles about rivalries like Agassi–Rafter and Federer–Hewitt have been deleted by the community. If in doubt, consult WP:TENNIS before creating a new rivalry article. Tennis has players play each other many times just by its nature. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:13, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, just removed the deletion tag. Sorry I didn't check with WP:TENNIS before creating, I'll do that before my next non-person tennis article. However, this is one of the most notable post–Big 3 rivalries in men's tennis, and multiple quality sources for WP:GNG (1 2 3) describe not just their matches but the nature of the rivalry. I could see why one might want a WP:merger into the #Rivalry section of each player but I think Wikipedia is better served by a standalone article. Hameltion (talk, contribs) 16:40, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hameltion, thanks for making the article; I agree this rivalry warrants its own page. I added the 2023 Rome match as well as some more details in the Relationship section. Cheers LDR062185 (talk) 06:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @LDR062185, thanks for making additions, and welcome to Wikipedia. I removed some possibly unencyclopedic language that appeared to be original research (such as uncited inferences or interpretations of YouTube videos) or relatively tangential to the relationship. Being comprehensive, while a worthy aspiration, is not Wikipedia's goal; reflecting what's available in reliable sources is. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 13:53, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]