Talk:Meša Selimović/Archives/2007/November

Nationality vs. Ethnicity

Please note that "nationality" in English normally means "citizenship", and Serbo-Croatian "nacionalnost" does not translate well into "nationality"; it's ambigous at best. While the "nationality" and "ethnicity" aren't necessarily exact synonyms, in English they are most often perceived as such; see the considerations under Nationality#alternative usage. However, ethnicity is unambiguous in this context.
As for the wording of the introduction, I maintain (and will continue to) that "Yugoslavian ... belonging to Serbian and Bosnian literature" is

1. Factually correct—he was a citizen of and spent his entire life in Yugoslavia, and belongs to both Serbian and Bosnian literature even by his own admission. While the Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore, it certainly did exist during his life.
2. Neutral—it avoids mentioning of the complex issue of his ethnic affiliation, which is discussed in detail in the text below.

A similar solution was applied to Ivo Andrić and seems to work. Duja► 08:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Duja, he distinguished the terms: origin and direction, which can be interpreted as ethnicity and nationality. As you know, he could say: "narodnost" which would be closer to ethnicity than "nacionalnost" the term he used. Emir Arven 09:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I fail to distinguish "narodnost" and "nacionalnost" myself, at least not in a consistent way (i.e. in most cases, I could use both). "Narodnost" does mean only "ethnicity", while "nacionalnost" may also mean "citizenship" (however, especially when referring to ex-SFRY nations, in 99% cases it means just "ethnicity"): when you read in press "dva lica srpske nacionalnosti", it normally means "two Serbs", not "two persons from Serbia" [1]. Duja► 15:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

But I agree with the new intro. Emir Arven 14:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

There's an interesting thing regarding this. After WWII, during Mesa's short-lived stay in Zagreb, he was asked why he denies his Moslem people in favor of the foreign "hostile" Serbian - he answered this with a connotation of the Ustasha genocide against his people, and that he's proud to say he's a Serb because of that which occurred in WWII. --PaxEquilibrium 16:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha ha...This is really bull shit. Don't be offended by the words, but ha ha ha...man I don't understand you. Tell me honestly, have you ever read any of his books? Emir Arven 13:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding genocide, Serbia is the only country in the world with the certificate by ICJ which says Serbia violated the Genocide Convention. And Serbs or their Army is the only Army which commited genocide, dolus specialis, in the modern world. It is also rude to talk about WWII, because chetnics were fascists who commited terrible crimes in Easter Bosnia against Bosniak population. My cousines were killed in Foča during WWII by chetnics. Emir Arven 13:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You see - that's near to that what I meant under hate speeches.

I will show you references if you want (there's not necessity for that).

I might be obsessed with history, but you are obsessed with war, killing & destruction. --PaxEquilibrium 14:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Just the truth, which is terrible. My people didn't commit genocide, but Serb Army did. Saying that truth, established by world's highest courte, is not hate speech, but history fact. Emir Arven 14:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Truth about that thing has nothing to do with this. Mesa Selimovic has nothing to do with the Serb Army, neither the Chetniks, nor "your people's army". The very fact that you use Serb War Crimes as a link to everything, even beautiful writers like Mesa Selimovic, is what is spreading hate speech. Tell me, what on earth do the Chetniks have to do with Mesa? --PaxEquilibrium 18:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Well you mentioned Ustasha, which were along with Chetnics fascist collaborators. These terms always go together. Emir Arven 18:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

So, you read that word but not the sentence in which it's used? --PaxEquilibrium 22:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Emir why are you talking about fascist collaboration?? LOL!! Did you forget about SS Handzar? You bring up the ICJ, which specifically cleared Serbia of genocide, as only declaring Serbs as genocidal... are you aware that this court was not established during WWII when Bosniaks and Croats, in the name of Hitler, committed a genocide against the Serbs? By calling Serbs genocidal you are also calling Mesa the same, as he declared his nationality as SERB and as he traced his ethnic roots to a SERB ORTHODOX family. Please show some more respect for this great Serbian writer. --24.150.77.3 (talk) 19:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Serbian Cyrillic vs. Cyrillic

I see that for some it is offensive to write Mesa's name in Serbian Cyrillic... so they put cyrillic. Yet it is still written in Serbian Cyrillic, not Russian or Ukranian or Kazakh Cyrillic. So why mislead people into the overly general Cyrillic family when it is clearly written in SERBIAN CYRILLIC?? I realize some fanatics see everything as a nationalist issue, but this is an issue of linguistic accuracy. --24.150.77.3 (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)