Talk:Maurice Fernandes/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk · contribs) 19:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good, well-written article on a fairly obscure cricketer. While there are few details here about his life, I would maintain that it covers everything that is known and so is broad and covers the main aspects. Everything else checks out pretty well, just some minor nit-picks.

Is there any particular reason in the lead why the 1923 tour is linked but the 1928 tour isn't?

I'd linked it in the following paragraph, rather than on first mention: fixed now. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"At the time, the West Indies had a custom of picking their captain from the colony that the match was being played in..." I think "custom" is phrasing it a little strong. It was more of a economy issue and to avoid island politics. They never did it again (if you don't count 1948, which was slightly different and slightly less ethical), and I think (but would have to check) they didn't do it on previous tours for "representative" West Indian teams. They certainly didn't do it in '26 as HGB Austin was captain in all three "Tests". I realise Wisden calls it a tradition, but I think in this case they are incorrect.

I agree, but I don't have any specific references I can use to list them! Do you have anything? Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Surprisingly little! There is this, specifically on Fernandes, which phrases it less strongly: "Despite overseeing that historic victory, the West Indies selectors continued with their practice of rarely picking players outside of their home territory - due in the main to economic considerations - and Fernandes' Test career came to an abrupt halt." (from Lawrence, Bridgette; Goble, Ray (1991). The Complete Record of West Indian Test Cricketers. Leicester: ACL and Polar Publishing (UK) Ltd. p. 46. ISBN 0951486225.) but there is nothing in Manley's history of WI, which is odd. I think there is a throwaway line in Howat's biography of Constantine and another throwaway line in Lawrence's biography of Headley but I can't get to either book for a day or two. They are referenced in the two players' articles if you are desperate, but maybe just tone it down to "practice" instead of "custom" and expand on the reasons. I'm certain I've nothing which says they hadn't done it before or after; the only way to do this is through scorecards or captaincy lists. So probably not worth bothering with that. (Sorry, long answer!) --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:27, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Repetition of "first-class" in last sentence of lead: not sure I can think of a way to avoid it, and not a problem really.

Yeah, I couldn't see any way around it either! Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Link Intercolonial Tournament?

Done. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Had he just played one match before the 1923 tour? If so, seems about right for the time period in the WI.

Yup. Should I make this clearer in the article? Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I think it's fine as that's what I thought it meant. Just checking as it was so few games, but this was West Indies cricket at the time. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:27, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the Intercolonial tournament, it can be a little confusing to know what is going on as there were a maximum of 2 games and sometimes only 1. It may be worth explaining this so the reader does not wonder how he did in all the other games.

Added a note to try to explain this. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"playing four Tests and eight first-class matches": Being nit-picky, this could be a little vague; does it mean 4 Tests and 8 other first-class matches (i.e. 12 first class matches) or 4 Tests and 4 f-c making 8 in total?

The first option. Rephrased to "and eight other first-class matches." Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The second paragraph of Test cricket is a little long. Is there anywhere it could be sensibly split?

Split the paragraph: not ideal in terms of balance, but the only real place it made sense. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Traditionally, the West Indies named a different captain for each of their home matches, generally selecting a player from the host colony for the honour." As above. I think the reasons should be listed here.

As above: I agree, but I don't have any specific references I can use to list them!

Not a big deal, but is the linked definition of obdurate necessary?

I figure a lot of people won't know what it means, so it's better to link it so that they can check! Otherwise, I think I'd need to remove the quote and just put it into my own words. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:27, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks fine. Other points (not necessary for this to pass):

As I said elsewhere, may be worth pointing out that he was a "white" captain. When this came up before, the issue of him being hispanic came up, but I think most sources say that all captains before Headley/Worrell were "white". But ignore this, by all means as it is just my opinion.
What about a non-free image from Cricinfo?
The only other material I am aware of was that uninspired stuff from the Test cricketers book I think I sent to you. It mentions he was ill in '23, but little else. Maybe worth including, but don't bother if you don't think it is important. And it probably isn't.
Another minor thing which may give context is that the 29-30 MCC team was pretty weak. They had a parallel team in New Zealand and several old crocks (notwithstanding the greatest cricketer ever to draw breath anywhere. Worth mentioning?

I'll put this on hold for these minor points to be discussed before passing. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:53, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed some of the points; as mentioned, I'm on holiday at the moment, so don't have access to my offline sources, nor my photo-editting software to play with the Cricinfo images. Harrias ^talk 11:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the information about the financial issues being the main reason for Fernandes being captain. I had a go with the images from Cricinfo, but in truth, the images are too small for an image of Fernandes to reasonably be extracted. Do you have any references regarding the MCC team being weak: again I agree with you, but just using the CricketArchive tour pages is a bit OR-ish. I'm still sitting on the fence on the "white" topic, I'll probably end up putting it in though! Harrias ^talk 17:25, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Everything looks good now. The only ref I can lay my hands on is this one: "It is true [Headley] entered the international arena against an England side below its full strength. Harold Larwood had not made the tour. Neither had Maurice Tate ... nor Wally Hammond... Despite these absent giants and the problems they might have posed ... [the rest says that Headley was basically fantastic]" from Manley, Michael (1988, 1995). A History of West Indies Cricket. London: Andre Deutsch. p. 32. ISBN 0-233-98937-4. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link) Happy to pass if the weakened nature of the team can be clarified. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noted that the England team was weak: not too much given what the source says: "Early the following year, a weakened English cricket team toured the West Indies, .." Harrias ^talk 21:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]