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Edit request from MFindrs, 3 June 2011

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Hello! I am curious to why this page has all of a sudden been protected. Looking at the page history it seems that there may have been an "edit war;" however I believe the editing of this page will contribute to his popularity and awareness to fellow musicians and educators around the nation (primarily in the Southern California area, where he resides). As you know being a musician requires a lot of networking thus, in order to expand his career, I feel it is crucial to open this page up to edit his biography (including his early life, recordings, and current activities). Thank You for your consideration

MFindrs (talk) 18:54, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The stated reason for the protection is "disruption". If you wish to discuss the reasons for it, you may like to contact User:Cirt who added the protection. However if you are the subject of this article, it may be better to leave the editing to others to avoid any accusations of bias. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am the editor who initiated the request for temporary protection. The article was a mess, including absurd, unsourced statements and other problems. When I tried to bring it in line with Wikipedia standards, my edits were repeatedly reverted by what appeared to be multiple editors. I'm going to give it another try and see how it goes, and I'll be watching it closely afterwards. I'll also echo what Martin said about potential conflict of interest and take it a step further: if you, User:MFindrs, are Matt Finders or someone acting on his behalf, you should know that Wikipedia articles are not vehicles for networking or career expansion. Any added content must be verifiable, using reliable secondary sources, and the policy on biographical content must be respected. Those requirements really aren't debatable. Incidentally, what you (or anyone) can do is help find reliable sources to support expanded content that's in line with what an encyclopedia article should be. Rivertorch (talk) 05:01, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much for taking the time to write back to me. I really appreciate it. I will surely do my best to make sure sources are cited on this page. I just wanted to help in sorting through the mess that seemed to have been created in Mr. Finder's biography section of the page. I understand Wikipedia is not a vehicle for networking/ career expansion, but it is a factor some people look at when hiring people for gigs :). Thank you for your time, and I hope we can expand this article and discern the fact from fiction on this page. MFindrs (talk) 08:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely. I have now overhauled the article, completing a rough copyedit, restoring much of the lost material (including discography, plus some of the text about recent activities—minus the mind-numbingly long anecdotes about sandwich day—and biographical basics) and making various refinements and tweaks. I have removed the notability template, which had been there since 2008, because I believe that the subject meets Wikipedia notability standards. Sourcing continues to be an issue, and I have added a template to reflect that, as well as adding an inline tag in one specific place (the bike accident and its aftermath, which really must be reliably sourced or just removed, and soon). Further improvements are needed. For instance, a chronological reworking of the career section would be a definite improvement, instead of the rather scattershot approach used now. Rivertorch (talk) 08:42, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that some of the information cannot be reliably sourced because it was gained first hand (meaning, Matt told me himself). Should we scrap it? User:Andrew Hill70 08:50, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Such information would be original research. Some things that he told you might well be sourceable, of course, but there's no rush to add them. Please keep in mind that I am assuming good faith on your part, despite the fact that you reinserted some content three days ago that was patently absurd and potentially damaging to Mr. Finders's reputation, and despite you and User:MFindrs both showing up here almost simultaneously today and making very similar edits to this talk page. Biographical articles are taken seriously around here, and if there's any funny stuff going on (e.g., sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry), it's not going to end happily for you. Rivertorch (talk) 09:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I come in peace. I, just the same as you, want to make this page as good as it can be. I will admit that some of the editing by me and my associates got way out of hand but I can assume, in good faith, we are past that. As to sock puppetry, I am not User:MFindrs. I undid your previous edit because some of the information you took out was true (although the Africa bit was really bizarre). The article looks a lot better without any of that garbage. I would say that 80 percent of the article now (as in without any garbage) was composed by either me or an associate. The discography was entirely the work of an associate of mine, and I provided both pictures along with lots of the information currently in the article. In conclusion, I say we stop these wild accusations and work on bringing this article up to Wikipedia’s standards. I admire how seriously you take this issue, and I hope you’ll take me seriously too. User:Andrew Hill70 09:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Yes, well, I take every editor and every article seriously and, as I said above, I am assuming good faith on your part. That doesn't mean I'm not wary of further disruption, however. Whenever "associates", as you put it, are involved in disruptive editing, it tends to get way out of hand. Given Mr. Finders's professional activities in the field of secondary education, it's almost a given that this will happen sometimes, but it still needs to be dealt with when it does. For the record, there have been no accusations, wild or otherwise, that I'm aware of. According to the page history, you have made a large number of useful, constructive edits to the article, and if you edited around the garbage about the pandas instead of removing or even questioning it in any way—well, it's over and done with now. Just try to realize that that kind of bullshit can make Wikipedia and its editors look bad, and it has the potential to make the subjects of articles look bad, too. Thanks for your willingness to discuss this. I look forward to seeing further improvements to the article over time. Rivertorch (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks you very much sir. (also thanks for the signature advice) Andrew Hill70 (talk) 22:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As for me, I'm just glad a man so renowned as Matt Finders has graced our wiki-world and stirred up some publicity. (Pizzamonger3 (talk) 04:09, 7 June 2011 (UTC))[reply]
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Added section on Retzlaff Vineyards, Tri-Valley Jazz Trio

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Before I became a Wikipedian, I added the paragraph in the Matt Finders article about Retzlaff Vineyards and Tri-Valley Jazz Trio. I just wanted to let everyone on here know that I have close connection to the topic so it would be great if another Wikipedian could review for it for bias. It doesn't seem to be biased, but I know contributors can be without knowing it! SelfieCity (talk) 00:40, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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