Talk:Masako Katsura

Content of discussion originally posted at WT:JA

Help with article on Japanese subject

Cross-posted at WP:RD/L

I am trying to get Masako Katsura to featured article level. I've gone as far as I can with English Language sources, but there has to be many in Japanese, probably with a lot of vital information not in any of the English sources. I could really use the help of someone fluent in Japanese who has a research skillset. The easy stuff first: I'd like to place her written Japanese name in proper form at the start of the article. I got this: の検索結果 from some Wikipedia mirror Japanese site. I have no idea if it's correct or even that I identified the correct part the page that displayed her name. I'd like to place right after her Latin character name something similar to the form that follows, grabbed from another article:

"Hideki Tōjō (Kyūjitai: 東條 英機; Shinjitai: 東条 英機)"

More involved help: it would be wonderful if someone would gather together a list of reliable sources available online, if there are any, which discuss her. It is pretty much impossible for me to do so with the language barrier. Once I have a list, I can use machine translation as best I can to see what they say and if they have any additional information and can ask specific questions here or elsewhere if I identity something to add to make sure I get it right. Of course, anyone who wants to go further and contribute to the article is welcome, but I would ask that anything you add be cited to a reliable source in an inline citation.

Finally, I am looking at a minimum for the following (citable) information all of which, is far more likely to be available from Japanese sources than English: Her exact date of birth, where she was born and lived as a child (anything on her childhood prior to 14 really) her family's details, their parents and siblings names etc., and finally, her date of death or confirmation that she's still alive and where she lives now (she would be 96-97 years old, having moved back to Japan from the U.S. in about 1990). Finally, note that apparently she and her sister toured many parts of Asia giving exhibitions in 1929 and later and it might be that she has mention in other Asian language sources, especially Chinese.

Thanks for any help.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, first, "検索結果" means "search results", so that's not right. I see there's no Japanese article on her which makes this even more difficult. After looking around quite a bit, I found this page, which writes her name as 桂 正子 (Katsura Masako). It mentions that she played billiards in Ginza, which is in Tokyo and seems to match up with the text in the article here. I'm not 100% sure it's absolutely correct, but that's about the best I can do. I'd imagine Oda Mari will have something to add to this. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 03:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems that her name is 桂マサ子 with many search hits. --Sushiya (talk) 03:18, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps she was born 正子 and then popularly wrote it as マサ子? — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 03:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys. Thanks for looking and adding her name to the article. When she was on What's My Line? in 1959 she signed in using Japanese characters. I had the episode recorded on my DVR but then the box broke, or I would have been able to work from it. Just knowing her name will allow me to search the Japanese Google web, books and news and do some machine translations (though sometimes the translations are just awful). I would probably put in the search "ビリヤード"; can you confirm for me that that is the common name of billiards?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Not just awful. I've seen cases in which a seemingly innocuous machine translation came up with almost the exact opposite meaning, compared with the original sentence. Wrongly translated Japanese dates are another problem.  Cs32en Talk to me  04:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I think 桂マサ子 is correct. There are four books written by her in National Diet Library. It's not unusual to use katakan in first names. Oda Mari (talk) 05:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

撞球/dōkyū is billiards in kanji. Oda Mari (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I found these. Video . Images:[7], With K. Matsuyama, and With her sister Noriko (left). These images might be copy-right free. Oda Mari (talk) 06:16, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Oda Mari. The video was already the sole external link in the article. The first two image links lead me to blank search pages in Yahoo Japan; can you fix the links? For the last, is there anything on the page providing information on the copyright? By the way, is any of the text of her books viewable on the Japanese Google books? In just a few lines she might clear up all manner of mysteries about her life, unreflecting in the 600 or so newspaper articles I've read on her in English. It appears to me from translating the book search page you provided earlier that there are only two books, but each has two editions; is that correct? Also, would a proper translation of the book titles be: 1) 撞球上達法 "Improve Your Billiards"? and 2) 撞球入門 "Introduction to Billiards"?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 08:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

As for the two links, it seems they turned out to be as I suspected. Sorry. I don't know why, but they do not like to be linked. Try this. Please copy the addresses below, paste them to your browser's window and go. http://park.geocities.jp/matukinrei/fhoto/mk.jpg
http://park.geocities.jp/matukinrei/fhoto/km.JPG
As for the third link, they say the site is copyrighted. But only the old image, not the whole poster, might be copyright free. Please see my post at the very bottom of the thread. I don't think any text in her her books is viewable. I try to find it later though. As for her books, they are [8], [9], [10], and [11]. I'm not sure these four are different books or any of them is a reprint. I'll call the library and ask them. Please wait for a while. Oda Mari (talk) 09:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The text of her books are not found on the Google Books. Oda Mari (talk) 10:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I called the library. They didn't know for sure but they said probably the two 撞球入門 ( 1956 and 1960) are is the reprint of 撞球入門 (1952). And 撞球上達法 (1960) is the reprint of 撞球上達法 (1956). I try to check further. The translation of the titles is OK. Oda Mari (talk) 09:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help thus far. I have added the two books (diff).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Mistake?

In the section "Exhibition tours", inner link "hustler"(...well known pool hustler Danny McGoorty had...) is maybe wrong. It is the article about magazine.--Freetrashbox (talk) 02:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Good catch. Fixed. Thanks.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:33, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Mistake?

Article states that Katsura and Greenleaf sailed for the US in 1951 on the Breckinridge. Follow the link; the Breckinridge was decomissioned and sold in 1946. c. elhardt — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celhardt (talk • contribs) 04:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The source is very clear that it was the Breckinridge, it just must not be the one linked. There was the USS General J. C. Breckinridge (AP-176) but I can't track it down any further than that at the moment. Maybe it should simply be delinked.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:10, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Though it is not a RS, a comment on this blog says "She went to America by military airplane". Here is a machine translated page. Oda Mari (talk) 15:11, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

P.S. Fuhghettaboutit, see this. I think we can use the image as it was taken in 1950. And enjoy watching Masako and Matsuyama in 1940, it's a short footage though. Oda Mari (talk) 15:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Just curious, but...

Is there anything known about her life during the war? It seems unlikely to me that anyone living in Japan during WWII could have been completely unaffected.204.119.140.66 (talk) 14:35, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I included every verifiable fact I could find about her after surveying a huge number of sources. This does not mean that there isn't material out there, but none I found.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

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Congrats!

Congrats to all editors who edited this article! It made Google's front page (via Google Doodle) today! --Integer123 (talk) 05:19, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Seconded; it's great to see a Doodle that's an FA! {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:58, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

So cool. I spent so many hours on this looking for sources when I was preparing this for FA, but I was never quite sure there weren't a bunch of Japanese sources (and possibly Chinese, given her and her sister's touring there), that I couldn't lay my finger on (despite requesting help at Wikiproject:Japan). Rare to have something get a secondary traffic bump like this, and as I expressed at my talk page (thanks Sdkb), this might get the interest of someone fluent in Japanese to look.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:40, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah, very clearly they followed the article and my writing in order to write the sourced Cnet article on the Doodle. Would have been nice to be credited. Still, this article is the first returned link in the Google results--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:20, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

<sour grapes>Three cushion is the most beautiful of games. As a purist, a person who played hours of three-cushion yesterday, I wish they had featured a natural as the shot, and not some silly, obscure, vanishingly low percentage, open table, small ball, artistic billiards bank shot that is so unrepresentative of the game – serving no educational purpose to revive interest in the main game played in the U.S. for many years, that most people today have never even heard of.</sour grapes>--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:38, 7 March 2021 (UTC)