Talk:Mark Watson-Gandy

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Justicia - Konstantinischer St. Georgs-Orden.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Baron of Myrton

Hi CNMall41 I hope you're well, I know you said you weren't convinced.

So I've gone ahead and screen captured the Myrton entry in Burke's Peerage (page 2648 of 107th edition):

https://jumpshare.com/s/fqIWIABxpzmEdfwHpNzN

As you see, Mark Watson-Gandy is in fact the Baron of Myrton and also Lord of the Manor of Buckland.

Does this evidence suffice for putting his legal title back on the page? Thanks! Kellycrak88 (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I will take a look. I think it is the same thing but phrased differently. I will take a look at what other sources say. How often is that publication published? --CNMall41 (talk) 01:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I changed it back to Baron of Myrton per that source. I left the "feudal" description so that it links to the appropriate explanation of what it is. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:29, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I am looking closer at this edit and have to ask where you got the information. I do not see it in the sources you listed, including the "does not appear to use the title" and the year of ascent. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

It's all there in Burke's Peerage 107th Edition it's a book page page 2648 the Burke's Peerage profile link screenshot of the page I provided earlier - I think that link allows you to download it as a PDF - there are further pages showing the lineage and father etc, which I can upload later as that's on the next page. Some people don't choose to use them professionally which appears to be the case here. Kellycrak88 (talk) 11:13, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

title also listed here https://www.registryofscotsnobility.com/baronage/ Kellycrak88 (talk) 11:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I shortened the details to make it clearer to the reader. I also removed the COA in the infobox as that is reserved for a picture of the subject. On a side note, I am willing to help create pages for anyone who qualifies in the space you are editing. I see you are updating quite a bit about these designations. let me know. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:04, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

appreciate your help - yes as a project like the Scottish Clans project (which I've contributed to) Wikipedia:WikiProject Clans of Scotland the aim is to create dedicated baronage pages in similar vain to peerage pages for each Barony for example Baron of Myrton should have it's own page with history, previous barons, coat of arms, properly sourced of course Kellycrak88 (talk) 20:27, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I have created a lot of pages so have the experience. If you want to leave a topic on my talk page I will start working on it in draft and we can collaborate. Need to get myself out of the Indian Film pages as it's starting to ruin my editing enjoyment. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

amazing - also btw it does seem to standard format on wikipedia for the shield from the coat of arms to go in the info image box of a person of nobility when there isn't a picture of the person, for example: Simon Fraser, 16th Lord Lovat Kellycrak88 (talk) 10:10, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I thought my comment was clear? Here it is again:

it's not a courtesy title, he's the substantive title (in the United Kingdom, a title of nobility which is owned in its own right, as opposed to titles borne as a courtesy title by a noble's relatives, or acquired through marriage) I removed the word courtesy and replaced "Scottish feudal title" with "in the Baronage of Scotland" linking to the page for more info to keep uniform with other pages

Referring to his title as a "courtesy title" is incorrect as he is SUBSTANTIVE TITLE HOLDER. He is not married to or a family member of the substantive title holder.

Furthermore, the class of his title is in the Baronage of Scotland, referring to it as a "scottish feudal title" is broad and not defined, there all types of feudal offices and titles. For example Laird, Tacksman, Hereditary Baillie, Constable of a Castle, Chamberlain, Keeper of a Forest or Royal Park, Sheriff (Hereditary Sheriff) -- feudal but all not part of the Baronage. Kellycrak88 (talk) 07:59, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41 Hi, I hope you're well, please let me know on this edit above when you get a chance please. Let me know if I can make these edits to the page! Thanks

btw I created Baron of the Bachuil hope you llike it Kellycrak88 (talk) 10:14, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

hi @CNMall41 you're reverting my changes to the page but you're not responding here on the Talk page, I only made the changes as you've stopped responding :/ Kellycrak88 (talk) 22:37, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

hi @CNMall41 I'm still waiting for a response on this as it's not a courtesy title - as you can see above I've been following up for weeks - waiting for your comment Kellycrak88 (talk) 13:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure of the reasons for the last edit but we do not need all of these descriptors. Wikipedia is not here to promote someone or post their RESUME. I left a message on my talk page about the other but at this point you will need consensus to add the other.

@Kellycrak88:, I was away for a death in the family. I am looking but as stated above, I do not see the reason for the descriptor. --CNMall41 (talk) 02:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I am very sorry for your loss, @CNMall41. My heartfelt condolences to you and your family during this difficult time.

Regarding the discussion, a courtesy title is typically used for children, former wives, and other close relatives of the substantive title holder. Could we remove the term "courtesy title" from the page? Additionally, instead of referring to it as a "feudal title," could we replace that with "noble title in the Baronage of Scotland"? Kellycrak88 (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Typically used in Wikipedia per MOS? I don't see this as standard. I also don't see the sources for what you are trying to do. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

but the word courtesy to describe it is incorrect, it's not a courtesy title he's the substantial title holder. I'm suggesting that we delete the word courtesy from the page.

We're also incorrectly calling it a feudal title. Pre-2004 they were often referred to as feudal titles. Since 2004 the law changed and ended feudalism in Scotland so that is not the correct term today. See the change in the law (Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2000/5/notes/division/1/3/6/11 the official explanatory notes) when the dignity of these titles became protected in law as personal non-territorial titles. Kellycrak88 (talk) 12:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)