Talk:Mark Roberts (footballer, born 1983)

Mark Roberts (footballer, born 1983) has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 20, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mark Roberts (footballer born 1983)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk) 09:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

The prose in this article is excellent. I have a minor issue with the lack of coverage of his life outside football. Ideally, even a sentence about his childhood; however if the information does not exist, I wouldn't fail on that basis. But I think something should be there.

My main problem in the article is with the referencing. There are plenty of refs, but unfortunately many of them do not support the text. I also have a slight issue with the number of refs to the Stevenage website; I wonder if it can be a reliable source in judging its own players. But I'm not too bothered by this one at the moment.

Main points:

"spent time on loan with Merseyside based outfit Southport in order to regain his fitness" Ref does not cover fitness.
although Roberts produced a "dominant defensive display": who said this? And it needs referencing, as the ref does not cover it.
"after impressing in the three games he played for the Conference side": Who did he impress? And if possible, how? Not covered by ref.
"during the second half of the 2006–07 season, which witnessed an up-turn in form for Northwich": could the upturn in form be explained and referenced?
"However, he fell out with Accrington manager John Coleman": Not covered by the next ref; this claim needs referencing.
"Roberts re-joined Northwich on a permanent deal after impressing Dino Maamria during his loan spell." Ref?
"drilled shot from the edge of the area": Who said this? Not covered by ref.
"Roberts formed a formidable centre-back pairing with Jon Ashton the following season as the team started putting a decent run of form together during late August and throughout September 2009; with the defence being particularly tight.[47]" Not even remotely covered by ref.
"He scored his first goal of the 2009–10 season on his 50th appearance for the club, giving Stevenage..." Ref does not cover appearance no. or first goal. There are a few more like this; you could do with a ref which lists his first team appearances and goals and that would cover all of these. Soccerbase does this and could be cited for several of these refs rather than the match reports.
"after his initial header had been saved" Not covered by ref.

There may be more references which do not do what they claim, but these are the ones I have noticed. Also:

Link for ref 36 is dead. Linkchecker also gives the bbc links as redirects; this may be an error but is worth checking.

I think this is an excellent article, but I cannot pass with all the referencing issues; you need to find some sources to back up what the article says. It would be a shame to cut out some of the article if a ref cannot be found. Some of the problems are easily solved, but you may have trouble with others. And I would prefer something more independent that the Stevenage website but I'm flexible on that. I'll place the article on hold for a week, but can do longer if required. --Sarastro1 (talk) 09:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Noticed from a message on your talkpage that Stevenage should be referred to as Stevenage Borough before 2010. This one doesn't worry me too much, but I think you should follow consensus. --Sarastro1 (talk) 09:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Firstly, thank you for taking the time out to give such a thorough response/evaluation of the article, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's very difficult writing an article on someone who you actually know, but don't have the references to support it! It's a shame, because I know these things have happened, but I fully understand that without referencing it has to go. I have dealt with the majority of things mentioned, as well as changing a lot of the Stevenage F.C. references to BBC Sport (the only Stevenage F.C. references that remain are reports that back up or provide a more in-depth look into what I have written than other sources).

"spent time on loan with Merseyside based outfit Southport in order to regain his fitness" ----> Roberts spent time on loan with Merseyside based outfit Southport.

"although Roberts produced a "dominant defensive display" ----> completely removed, no reference supports this.

"after impressing in the three games he played for the Conference side" ----> the same again, removed, no reference supports this.

"during the second half of the 2006–07 season, which witnessed an up-turn in form for Northwich" ----> now links to Soccerbase, which shows you a list of Northwich's fixtures during the 2006–07 season.

"However, he fell out with Accrington manager John Coleman" ----> again, removed as no reference supports this.

"Roberts re-joined Northwich on a permanent deal after impressing Dino Maamria during his loan spell." ----> very strange, but no Northwich, Accrington or BBC have published an article on his permanent move. It evidently happened, given that he played for them afterwards for a year and a half, so I'll use his Soccerbase profile reference to show it did in fact happen.

"drilled shot from the edge of the area" ----> very frustrating given that I witnessed the goal first hand, but removed once more.

"Roberts formed a formidable centre-back pairing with Jon Ashton the following season as the team started putting a decent run of form together during late August and throughout September 2009; with the defence being particularly tight.[47]" ----> links now show Stevenage fixtures and results, as well as a Statto chart showing each Conference side's respective defensive unit throughout the season. Filtering also allows you to view this on a monthly basis, but this cannot be linked.

"He scored his first goal of the 2009–10 season on his 50th appearance for the club, giving Stevenage..." ----> as you said, Soccerbase will do a job here, linked to them, as well as other goals during the season where I have noted how many he has scored.

"after his initial header had been saved" ----> see "very frustrating" comment above.

Regarding the redrecting of BBC links, almost everyone who evaluates articles always says this. I think it's because BBC changed the website's format a few years ago and, as a result, links come through as being redirected when they're actually not.

As for the whole Stevenage Borough to Stevenage name change. Even when Stevenage's full title was Stevenage Borough, they were always referred to as Stevenage. It would look ridiculous in an article to constantly write 'Stevenage Borough'. It would be like writing Tottenham Hotspur everytime you wish to refer to Tottenham. In my opinion, it would damage how an article reads, which is quite important to me.

Let me know what more I need to do. Thanks --SBFCEdit (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just about ready to pass now. The only issue is about his life out of football. If there is anything, it could go in. However, if nothing is able to be referenced, I'll let it go. Let me know. A shame that some of it had to be cut. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:24, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have nothing on his personal life that can be referenced unfortunately. I will do a "style of play" section to bolster the article further given that I have some newspaper and programme articles that I can reference regarding Roberts' style of play on the football pitch. Hopefully that will get it to GA. Thanks --SBFCEdit (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll let you do that before I pass it. Looking good now. --Sarastro1 (talk) 09:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just added the section now. Will bolster it even further when I get access to last years matchday programmes. --SBFCEdit (talk) 18:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm passing now. Good job. If you do expand it in future, let me know as I would be quite interested! --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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