Talk:Marisa Anderson/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 20:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No images to review. Earwig finds no issues.

What makes the following reliable sources?
- ~~thecreativeindependent.com~~
- ~~daily.bandcamp.com~~
- ~~female.com.au~~
- ~~universalcinema.ca~~
- ~~broadwayworld.com -- this page implies that some of their material is provided by volunteers.~~
- ~~dustedmagazine.tumblr.com -- this is a tumblr blog~~

I'll pause the review till these are resolved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:34, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

QuietHere, are you planning to work on this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:57, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie I somehow completely missed that you posted this. Apologies for the late response. As for this list

The Creative Independent page is a primary source interview.
I don't think that being an interview is enough, but having had another look, I see it's published by Kickstarter, which is a corporate entity; I think the combination of those two things is enough. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bandcamp Daily is also an interview, but I also think is a likely reliable source regardless.
Same for this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If their about page is to be believed then they're quite well established.
I don't think we can take that sort of page as sufficient evidence; I'd like to see something like a list of editors, or a statement of editorial policy. I had a look at their Facebook page and they have 2.3K followers, which is not indicative of a substantial presence. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Would this be a suitable replacement? The staff section of their about page lists multiple editors. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:29, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that looks fine to me. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
UniversalCinema may not be but this Variety article also lists her credit so it's easily replaceable if need be.
Can we make that change, then? Always better to use a higher quality source where possible. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done so. I think I only took the UniversalCinema page because of the quote they included, but that wasn't really needed anyway. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, struck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reason why hosting volunteer writers would preclude a source from reliability. BroadwayWorld is also used in 11,000 articles on EnWP and I'd like to think that's a sign in its favor. If not, there's a lot of citations that need replacing.
Yes, I should have remembered seeing it elsewhere, and I should have looked at our article on it. Volunteers are a problem if they can post without an editing filter, but that's not the case here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dusted has been around for over a decade and their reviews are regularly listed on Metacritic. That they host on Tumblr should not preclude them from reliability. I've seen other sources called reliable which host on other blogging platforms just 'cause it's cheaper than having their own website (though they also have http://www.dustedmagazine.com/).
I agree that if Dusted is reliable, a blog they run is reliable for whatever Dusted is reliable for. I took a look at their about page, and it's not clear what level of editing their volunteer reviews get. I also tried WP:A/S, but they're not mentioned there, and the only mention of them in Wikiproject talk got no responses. We don't have an article on them. Any other info that would help establish reliability? And looking at the information cited, I see it's just the instruments on one album; could we cite the album liner notes instead to resolve this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know of a source which has the liner notes specifically, though I'm looking for one. In the meantime, her record label mentions both the charango and requinto guitar. Would that be any good as a primary source? If not, both AllMusic and NPR list just the requinto. Could just remove the charango mention if need be. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:36, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Both instruments also come up in this interview with Bomb Magazine and this review from Folk Radio so those are also potential options. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:40, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the record label is a fine source -- it's not controversial, nor is it an opinion, so the fact that it's not a neutral source is irrelevant. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

QuietHere (talk | contributions) 02:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some strikes and replies above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And with that, I've made all your requested changes so far. Anything else need doing? QuietHere (talk | contributions) 17:38, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All looks good above. I'll read through next and list any issues I spot, and will then do a spotcheck. Today or tomorrow, I hope. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:22, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

There's no birth or death date, which isn't a problem in itself, but it means that "dropping out at age 19" isn't tied to a date -- it could be anywhere from 1980 to 2010, though I would guess it's around 1990. Is there any way to connect that event to a date?
Suggest linking OUTmusic Award to LGBT music#OUTMusic Awards.
"an eponymous split album with Bhutan-born guitarist Tashi Dorji": suggest giving the name of the album here, clunky though that will sound -- "eponymous split album" just doesn't bring the album's title to mind.
"her four most recent albums": technically this requires an "as of 2023", but that would be ugly, so I would suggest just making this "with whom she released her next four albums".
"where they perform the songs": should be past tense, to match the tense of "had a cameo appearance".
'Anderson's music has been described as falling into the American primitive guitar style introduced by John Fahey in the 1960s, as well as being called a "neo-Americana guitar outsider".' Needs rephrasing; as written the subject is "Anderson's music", so it gets parsed as 'Anderson's music [has been] called a "neo-Americana guitar outsider"'. Perhaps "... in the 1960s, and she has been called ..."?
"Her music is also referred to as experimental on some albums": suggest "Her music on some albums is also referred to as experimental".
The discography is unsourced.

Spotchecks -- footnotes refer to this version:

FN 2 cites "Her earliest musical memories are of listening to church music and classical in her mother's car, and country in her dad's truck including Doc Watson and the Oak Ridge Boys." The source only mentions that her father listened to Doc Watson and the Oak Ridge Boys, not that it was an early memory, and doesn't support the other information in the sentence.
FN 7 cites "In Portland, she joined the improvisational ensemble Evolutionary Jass Band for six years, recording three albums." This supports her membership of the band, but not the three albums, and I don't think we can call it an "improvisational ensemble" with this source -- it describes both improv and "tightly structured" songs.

To promote to GA, a spotcheck has to come back clean, or very nearly so. I'd hate to fail this as it's in pretty good shape. Can you take a look through the citations and just check to see there are no other inaccuracies like this? That way when I do another round of spotchecks we can be confident I can promote this to GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:29, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cleared up both those spot checks. Turns out I just forgot to include the AllMusic source on those statements; no big deal there. Will have a look through the rest of the sources momentarily, as well as adding sources to the discography section. Just wanted to mention that I have looked for Anderson's birthday/DoB before and haven't found anything regarding it. The AllMusic bio only says she was 19 and I haven't seen anything more than that. Based on all the other present dates, I would guess she was born in 1969/'70 and that she would've dropped out in 1989/'90, but that's obviously OR so I'm not gonna touch that. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 19:25, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK -- do watch out for WP:PARAPHRASE issues as you check your other citations, though -- "Anderson's earliest musical memories include hearing church music, classical in her mother's car, and country in her dad's truck" in the source turns into "Her earliest musical memories are of listening to church music and classical in her mother's car, and country in her dad's truck" -- this is too closely paraphrased. Let me know when you're ready for me to take another look. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:31, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rephrasing that now. Finished checking the rest of the sources earlier so it should be ready for you. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 21:51, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second spotchecks

Footnote numbers refer to this version.

FN 3 cites "living in her car or in a tent and walking around the US to raise awareness for environmental issues. Some of this time was spent in Mexico where she was a part of Circo de Manos and performed among the indigenous peoples and subsistence farmers during the Chiapas conflict in Southern Mexico." The source has "living in her car or a tent, and walking across the United States to raise awareness about environmental issues with 100 other people. She was also part of Circo de Manos and performed among the indigenous peoples and subsistence farmers during the Chiapas conflict in Southern Mexico." This is too close paraphrasing.
FN 13 cites "with whom she released her next four albums: 2018's Cloud Corner": verified -- the "four albums" isn't verified but that's OK because the rest of the sentence covers the other three.
FN 2 cites "On the subject, she has said she likes "to think about improvisation as a conversation" and that it's "really just an art at being literate and expressive no matter what language you are in... I am trying to be very present with the music and to make my intention realized with every performance." Verified.
FNs 18 & 19 cite "Anderson had a cameo appearance alongside fellow Oregon-based musician Michael Hurley in the 2018 film Leave No Trace where they performed the songs "O My Stars" and "Dark Holler" around a campfire." I don't see a mention of a campfire in either source. I've seen the movie, but I don't recall if the two songs are both sung by both musicians, or if one is by Anderson and one by Hurley. Can you confirm that this is phrased correctly? Might be worth citing the movie itself since the Guardian article doesn't make that clear.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:11, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reworked 3 with some different sources, should hopefully be better now but I'd appreciate if you double-checked that. As for 18/19, that whole part is really awkward because none of the sources I've seen just outright state that both musicians had a cameo in the film together. I don't know how to cite a film (Template:Cite AV media?), and I haven't seen the movie in long enough that I don't remember the specifics so I'm not sure how much that would help. This image shows both of 'em with guitars so I think "they performed" without anything more specific about who sings or whatever should be fine. Neither that image, nor the one before it, show a campfire, so I guess I misremembered that part and just slipped it in without thinking. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixes look good. Since we had to make one major change and one minor one, I'm checking a couple more:

FN 37 cites "while also including global influences such as Tuareg and Latin music on Cloud Corner". Verified.
FNs 1 & 3 cite "She attended Humboldt State University before dropping out at age 19." Verified.
FNs 40 & 14 cite "She is known to improvise music rather than compose it on many of her recordings, including the entirety of her album The Quickening." Verified.

A clean set of spotchecks, so passing; congratulations! Would you be interested in reviewing GAs, by the way? There's always a backlog and we do need experienced editors as reviewers. And I don't know if you're planning to nominate other articles, but the GAN list is sorted so that frequent reviewers are higher on the list, so it would help get your own articles reviewed, too. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:48, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]