Talk:Marion Hartog

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Marion Hartog article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Marion Hartog was nominated as a Language and literature good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (April 11, 2021). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

A fact from Marion Hartog appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 November 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Marion Hartog founded the first Jewish women's periodical in 1855?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marion Hartog.

Wikipedia

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

Jewish Women Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish Women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish WomenWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish WomenTemplate:WikiProject Jewish WomenJewish Women articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Marion Hartog

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:00, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Marion Hartog

... that the first Jewish women's periodical was founded by Marion Hartog in 1855? Source:https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/hartog-marion

Created by Kyuko (talk). Nominated by Andrew J.Kurbiko (talk) at 10:56, 28 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Regards, Jeromi Mikhael ^(marhata) 14:19, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recommending that the bolded subject be moved forward and the hook changed to an active verb:
ALT1: ... that Marion Hartog founded the first Jewish women's periodical in 1855? Yoninah (talk) 20:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Even though the Jewish Encyclopedia source is public domain, it should be cited in the text. Please add a cite to the second paragraph under Career, per Rule D2. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 01:11, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Kyuko (talk) 02:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Restoring tick per Jeromi Mikhael's review. Yoninah (talk) 15:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Marion Hartog/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Whiteguru (talk · contribs) 17:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Starts GA Review; the review will follow the same sections of the Article. --Whiteguru (talk) 17:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Observations

Lede is extremely short. Normal expectation for lede is two or three paragraphs.

Reference 14 is a pdf in Hebrew. A translation is needed. reference 14 is the first reference to this Journal Marion Hartog is famous and remembered for creating. You cannot supply this in Hebrew to your readership. Consider Jstor on the Wikipedia Library.

Reference 15 is to her sister, Celia. Linking to the Wikipedia article on Oxford DNB is not acceptable. Use Wikipedia library for full access. Consider (open access)

Reference 16 needs to be a little more clear what is being referred to. The online version does not give page numbers. What is being used as a reference here?

Reference 17 needs to give a more fulsome coverage of the graceless response Benich had to the Journal and the (then) failure (we are speaking 1855) of Jewish men and women's political emancipation in 1860. This needs to take notice of this important moment of transformation. Hartog did not write for the next 52 years of her life. Now we look to Broad in its coverage which, inte-alia, includes, mean that no obviously important information should be entirely absent from the article. We need to consider the impact of Benich in the Jewish Chronicle on Hartog's Jewish Sabbath Journal. See Galchinsky, 217-218.

Final

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:

Marion Hartog’s Laurel House Collegiate Boarding and Day School for Young Ladies was established in 1869.

This article is lacking analysis of the reception and impact of Marion Hartog on Victorian England. She had a important contribution in Education in the school she established. Reference 11 has 21 citations of the contributions and activities of Marion Hartog in the school she established. For example, the second citation gives,

The children of the ‘better class’ obtain scarcely any at all. Not only are the more advanced branches of Hebrew altogether neglected, but I am pained to state it is becoming quite rare to find a Jewish boy or girl able to translate a simple Hebrew prayer, or a section of the Pentateuch... I maintain that there are numbers of Jewish youths in our midst who cannot even read [sic] the sacred tongue, and whose futile attempts to pronounce words of four or five letters are painful to listen to ... Whence arises this neglect of all that is connected with the highest interests of Judaism? It springs from the fact that our community has changed, and is changing. Our fathers had higher notions o f the importance of religious teaching than we entertain.

Further evidence of the importance of education in the life of Marion Hartog:

The Times obituary of Marion Hartog observed that “the main work of her life was devoted to teaching, for which she had quite unusual gifts”). The conception of the female ideal extended to the classroom. According to Robert B. Shoemaker, Girls were expected to emulate their mothers and boys their fathers. As middle class boys grew older, they were taught in time management and accounting and encouraged to become diligent and independent. In contrast, their sisters learned about duty, self-sacrifice, and submission to authority.

At this point, the article is lacking balance in coverage of Marion Hartog and her works, contribution to Victorian England, and her lasting influence. Her contribution via the school she established is an important facet of her life and works; she did not write for the next 52 years of her life, yet, conducted Laurel House Collegiate Boarding and Day School for Young Ladies. The article cannot simply be about Marion Hartog as a Jewish woman writer in Victorian England.

Review placed on hold, await your discussion of these points and inputs. --Whiteguru (talk) 10:45, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~On hold~~

Thank you kindly for your in-depth review! I'll take the time to go through it and respond accordingly as soon as I have the chance, probably sometime in the next week. –Kyuko (talk) 03:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyuko: This review is listed over on WP:GANR as on hold for 13 days. Another of your GA nominations was passed today. On the talk page it was indicated that the review should be resolved within 7 days. If there is no response in the next day or so, this review will go to fail. --Whiteguru (talk) 06:59, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping. I'll begin reviewing the above issues. –Kyuko (talk) 15:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No action has been taken for 3 days, review goes to fail. --Whiteguru (talk) 21:38, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.