Talk:Mario Ramírez Treviño/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: PrairieKid (talk · contribs) 21:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will review the nomination of this article to become a GA. I should be able to start my review today. PrairieKid (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I just added this to my Watchlist. Thanks for the review! ComputerJA (talk) 23:11, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll start with initial thoughts and then pull out the rubric.

Initial Thoughts

Well-written
Good cites throughout

Thank you, much appreciated!

Intro

Good summary in the intro

Thanks again! :)

Criminal Career

In the Criminal Career (and intro) section(s), his name is repeated a little too often.

Done You're right. I removed "Ramírez Treviño: and added "him" where deemed necessary. Please check if you feel further changes are required.

The Criminal Career section is more of an "Early Life and Career" section, as it talks about his early life, before becoming... famous(?).

Done Thanks for the suggestion.

Gulf Cartel infighting

In the "Gulf Cartel Infighting" sections, it focuses more on the Gulf Cartel than on Trevino's career. In fact, for the first two subsections, he isn't mentioned at all. A lot of the background information could be eliminated. In each of the sections, it seems to describe what his men did (with a little on how he ordered them to do it). Then, it gives a 3 sentence summary of how Trevino was affected. It should be the other way around.

Done True. I removed the Background section because it did not mention him (curious readers can click on Infighting in the Gulf Cartel for details like that). I also trimmed Death of Flores Borrego and removed a lot of the details. This death, however, is important because that triggered the disintegration of the cartel and allowed Ramírez Treviño to take his position in Reynosa and become a high-ranking leader (that is mentioned in the concluding sentences).

I also trimmed the Death of El Metro 4 and added Ramírez Treviño's role in it. Do you think the one with El Gringo Villarreal needs any changes?

Bounty and Status

Trying to decide whether his height and weight are pertinent...

I kept them because the Wanted poster of him on the U.S Dept. of State website includes this very information. [1] Feel free to remove it if you wish.

Overall

Article doesn't focus much on Treviño. Goes into unnecessary details about the Gulf Cartel
The information in the "Criminal Career" section about his rise as a cartel should be expanded upon and put into the Gulf Cartel Infighting Section, while the rest should be put into an early life section
Article is well-written
Article is factual and well-supported
His name comes up a little too often at the beginning.

This article definitely has potential. I will begin the rubric shortly. PrairieKid (talk) 21:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review, PrairieKid. I think I addressed your concerns, but please feel free to ask for any other changes if you feel they are necessary. It's been a pleasure to work with you. Your suggestions will definetely help me improve other articles of Gulf Cartel leaders that I plan to nominate to GA status. Cheers, ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 19:47, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rubric

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:
Once his name is removed from the article in a few spots, it will be fine. It is good besides that.

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
The article does not go into Trevino himself for much of the article.

B. Focused:
Again, the article gives way too much information on the Gulf Cartel and not enough on Trevino.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
A difficult task at times for an article like this.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
I would like another picture, but that isn't a big problem.

That's the only image of him on the Internet (as far as the government is aware of).

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
I will put the article on hold for 1 week. I do feel that it still needs a lot of work, but I think it can be done. PrairieKid (talk) 21:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article still has problems with the focus. The Gulf Infighting sections still don't focus on Trevino as much as they should. Fix that and it will be good. PrairieKid (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, PrairieKid. I might be able to tackle your concerns if you can pinpoint the exact changes you want me to address. I don't know if I can trim the sections anymore without making it lose its meaning and giving readers a good understanding of the internal strife within the Gulf Cartel. It might be my own bias of thinking that the details I mention are important, so please feel free to disagree and remove what you don't consider vital. Maybe you can help me by doing some copyediting yourself, because I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Given the fact that this man is a fugitive and notorious for being low-profile, it's hard to get any details of what HE actually does. Most of the stuff sources talk about are on what his henchmen/other high-ranking leaders do that affects him. Thanks for sticking through. Cheers, ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 01:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Gulf Cartel Infighting mentions Trevino's name 4 times. The death of Flores Borrego section is alright, I suppose. I would still argue that it deals more with the background of Flores Borrego, and not so much into their relationship.

The other two sections really are not about Trevino. I don't see the point in the Execution of El Metro 4 section, as it barely even mentions Trevino's cartel, much less himself. The Battle with El Gringo Villarreal section is a little strange. It says that two groups were fighting and some how, a third group (the Gulf Cartel) suffered huge casualties. It doesn't even mention Trevino. THEN, at the bottom, it goes onto a semi-but-not-really related topic that is about Trevino. I honestly think that very little in the last two subsections is useful for the article. Like I said, it is a major problem in focus. PrairieKid (talk) 17:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, it was my mistake. In the infighting section, I wrote "Ramírez" several times without adding his two last names "Ramírez Treviño". (a common practice in Mexico) If we count them now, Mario is mentioned 10 times, not 4. Sorry about it. Now, let me see if I can clarify the confusion. El Gringo and Ramírez Treviño are both part of the Gulf Cartel, but they are from two different factions (hence why the section is called "infighting"). I just made some corrections to make sure to mention that the fight was an internal one within the Gulf Cartel. There is a "third" faction that was engaged in the infighting too, but that was from a guy known as Comandante Cortez. He is mentioned in the first paragraph as the man that helped Ramírez Treviño fight El Gringo off from Reynosa. All of the deaths from the infighting, thereby, should be considered "Gulf Cartel casualties."

Anyways, I think I have an idea for addressing your concerns. I'm going to mix in Death of Flores Borrego and El Metro 4 to make it more in context with Ramírez Treviño's rank ascension. I'll remove unnecessary details and stick with a general context of how he moved up (probably by adding some general details of how other Gulf Cartel arrests pushed him into power). I'll get back to you soon. Thanks for the review! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 18:03, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'm done. I added Flores Borrego's death and M4's execution to his career section. Let me know if any changes are needed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 01:13, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Two things to apologize for- One being that I left this GA review for so long. I really don't know how I managed to forget. I am also sorry that so much had to be taken out of the article. I hope in the future some of those things can be brought back, albeit through a more Trevino-oriented lens. For now, the article does meet the GA criteria. Mario Ramirez Trevino, welcome to the GA list. Thank you ComputerJA for all the hard work. A lot has gone into this article and I (to use a term older than my mother) am pleased as punch. PrairieKid (talk) 05:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A few things for the future:

The lead is now a little long. It is fine for GA, but it could be cut back a little to reach A-Class or FA status.
Some of the old stuff could come back through a Trevino lens.
An update on his current condition, as far as the government is concerned, if anything is availible
For FA status, it would need another, very strict copyedit, not for grammar, but so the wording is more descriptive, flows better and seems a little more interesting. Again, it is at the GA level, but not quite there for FA. PrairieKid (talk) 05:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]