Talk:Mariavite Church

Zaborowski's assertations

An additional difficulty with this page is the inclusion of Robert Ronald John Maria Zaborowski's assertions that he leads a signficant North American branch of this religious movement. In fact Bishop Zaborowski is simply an Episcopi vagantes (see relevant listing at Wikipedia) with no real following and therefore this part of the listing is essentially fraudulent.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.8.158 (talk) 22:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

He'd be an episcopus vagans. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:42, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Having known Zaborowski for over 40 years I could easily prove His "assertations" as I hold all records in his archives. Yet I'll follow his example of ignoring such slander as there truly is nothing to prove to anyone. God knows how He lived His life and God will judge accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CFAD:5B00:AC6A:167C:5583:65F2 (talk) 15:42, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

North America

This article has come a long ways but still needs lots of work IMO. Firstly, someone truly both logical and grammatical needs to integrate much of the "Relations between Catholics and Mariavites" as it is largely redundant with the history above it. Secondly, I do not buy for a second the statements about there being 300,000+ Mariavites in North America. If so, where are their chuches, schools, seminaries, etc., that a group of such size would necessarily have? This needs verified sources, not the self-serving statements of its proponents without independent review. Certainly there may well be 300,000+ North American Catholics who are sympathetic with this groups devotion to the Tridentine Mass, a less-centralized, hierarchical organization, and so on, but this is not at all the same as the group having 300,000 actual members. Rlquall 19:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Official site of the Mariavite Church says there "25,000 believers in Poland and 5,000 believers in France" [1]. And no information about believers in North America, there is even no evidence that there is "the autonomous Province in North America". I delete this information until the author would proove it. Slawojarek 20:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed the headquarters of "Old Catholic Mariavite Church in North America" was in my father's hometown of Wyandotte, Michigan (also home to large number of Poles) then I recognized the address, to my surprise it is right next to my family's home parish and the Mariavite HQ is nothing more than a normal house with no sign or anything. Also I am a religious Polish-American and quite familiar with our religious movements and history in America and I have never nor has anyone in my family ever even heard of this American Mariavite Church so I suspect this is something someone made up or there is a huge underground secret society of American Mariavites - I suspect the former.Zaynaq (talk) 02:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I can also confirm that the alledged "HQ" is just a private residence. Numerous contacts wit "Bishop" Zaborowski have truned up no information. He has declined to share clergy names, locations, parishes, addresses, etc. I have been directly involved with the independent movement for 30+ years and have seen much in the area of exageration. I suspect that that is what we are seeing here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.56.39 (talk) 20:30, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

According to an article in Encyclopedia of American Religions, published in 1996, except for a chapel in Zaborowski's residence, "observers have been unable to locate any of the congregations" and Zaborowski "consistently refused" to provide details, e.g. an address, about any of the 157 parishes, with 356,034 members, that he claimed were part of his church in 1995 – his claims are unverified, there is no WP:RELIABLE source for any of Zaborowski's claims. This was commented on in 2006 The corresponding Polish article, which lacks references, claims that Mariavitism existed in 1930s North America and that Francis Mary Ignatius Boryszewski, a Carmel Henry Carfora priest, was consecrated as a bishop of this Mariavite group by Old Catholic Church of the Mariavites Bishop pl:Maria Jakub Próchniewski – Episcopi vagantes and the Anglican Church only states that Lloyd consecrated Boryszewski in 1930 (p41) while Encyclopedia of American Religions adds, in a qualified way, that "it appears that [...] Prochniewski consecrated Boryszewski a second time in a separate ceremony in 1930" (p230). There is no connection between Zaborowski and an ostensibly historical Mariavite group, at best it is a recycling of a name. I tagged two sections with {{Disputed-section}}. A 1975 newspaper article shows that "Archbishop Joseph Skureth, OM, superior or general of the Polish Mariavite Church in America." This contradicts what historian John Bukowczyk wrote in 1987: "No record of direct Mariavite involvement in the United States has surfaced." Skureth was associated with various episcopi vagantes whose congregations also only existed in their imaginations. It is part of a subculture pathology that was pointed out in the 1940s in Episcopi vagantes and the Anglican Church (pp1–4). –BoBoMisiu (talk) 17:22, 24 October 2015 (UTC); modified 16:47, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Relations Between Mariavites and Roman Catholics

This section cites almost no sources and seems to be quite biased. I have removed some of the most unsupportable claims, but someone really needs to look at this.Mayor Beauregard 01:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

another source

I encourage people interested in the Mariavici to read The Third Adam by Jerzy Peterkiewicz. No doubt adherents will have problems with it, but it contains information such as the hypostatic union of Mother Kozłowska with Christ in the Eucharist, and her spiritual birthing of Archbishop Kowalski. The Third Adam --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:54, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

"They said nota bene took place"

This sentence doesn't make sense as it stands: "They said nota bene took place in Płock, which was for the Mariavites a clear sign that God has repeated this message to the people." "The said 'nota bene'" might make sense, except there is no 'nota bene' in what precedes it. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Catholic Church naming conventions RfC

There is currently an RfC at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Catholic_Church)#RfC:_should_this_page_be_made_a_naming_convention that may be of interest. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 23:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

"noblewoman" yes but nun more important

Yes she was szlachta but that she was a nun is more important, and if only one of these facts should be in the lead, it should be this. --142.163.194.74 (talk) 10:10, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

What is this article about?

What is this article about? The two churches, or only one of the Mariavite churches?
The website in the infobox has the name Kościół Starokatolicki Mariawitów (Mariavite Catholic Church), which is the name of another article, Catholic Mariavite Church.
The article is titled "Mariavite Church", yet the name of the Church in the infobox is "Old Catholic Mariavite Church". Veverve (talk) 15:16, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

"see also: Priestly Fraternity of St Peter"

Why is this "see also" link here? The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter has nothing at all to do with the Mariavites. --2607:FEA8:FF01:4B63:A4BC:6EF:C08B:19FD (talk) 11:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

You are right, I removed it. Veverve (talk) 14:36, 20 January 2022 (UTC)