Talk:Marian Lutosławski

Questions

Hi, I've started copyediting this article. I'm unsure about the precise meaning of a couple of sentences:

• "Lutosławski installed the first power station for a residential neighbourhood in Warsaw, and introduced new techniques such as the three-phase current". Was this Warsaw's first power station? That particular neighborhood's first power station? Or was it the first power station in Warsaw to serve a residential neighborhood? In what way were those techniques new? Did he invent them? Was he the first to use them to generate power? The first in Poland?

The source (Puczyńska) states that Lutosławski designed the first power station for a residential neighbourhood in Warsaw, period. Although it was that particular neighborhood's first power station the source doesn't say whether it was the first in Warsaw. However, his diesel powered generator for Hotel Bristol was the first in Poland.

• Concerning the bridges in Lublin: Were the bridges he built the first bridges in Lublin or simply the first in that town to be made out of reinforced concrete?

Same source: the bridges in Lublin were not the first in there (the city is centuries old), but they were the first to be made of reinforced concrete, also, the first such RC bridges in the Russian Partition.

• Saying that his brothers were simply "notable" seems rather vague. In what way were they notable?

The source (regional museum) goes into detail, not sure how relevant for our own purposes. His brothers were: Wincenty, Stanisław, Jan, Kazimierz and Józef. Wincenty (1863-1954), professor of philosophy, author of the Polish modern edition of Plato's Dialogues; Stanisław (1864-1937), founder of the first school of commerce locally and other schools teaching delegalized (at the time) Polish language; Jan (1875-1950), editor-in-chief of Warsaw Gazeta Rolnicza (Farming Daily); Kazimierz (1880-1924), a priest and parlamentarian; Józef (1881-1918), book author and social activist; etcetera.

• "He used concrete in the first house of such construction at the Solec street locally, but also at the Church of Christ the Saviour in Vilnius, and many other projects including bridges based on the new François Hennebique technology" I'm not sure I understand that sentence. Was the house he built the first house made out of reinforced concrete on Solec Street?

The museum webpage says that the house made out of reinforced concrete was the first in Warsaw and possibly the first in Congress Poland.

• "His experience allowed Lutosławski to give lectures and courses, as well as write and publish articles and manuals in this area" What area? Civil engineering?

Yes.

• "Notably, a week before the massacre, on August 29, 1918, the Bolshevik Council of People's Commissars formally recognized the right of the Polish nation to independence and irrevocably annulled all Russian agreements and acts referring to the partitions of Poland." Like I stated in the DYK discussion, I think this sentence needs to be removed. It's a classic example of WP:SYNTH.

The relevancy lays in the fact that the extrajudical execution of Marian Lutosławski was that of a foreign national notably by Bolsheviks' own declaration... only one week old. You decide.

Thanks for your help.--Carabinieri (talk) 12:24, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks a million, Carabinieri. Much obliged, Poeticbent talk 15:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Some more remarks:

• I have added some information about why Lutosławski was in Russia in the first place and why he was arrested. I took the information from the Stucky and the Bedkowski sources.
• I removed the link to the Russian Wikipedia article. Based on the question mark, I assumed you weren't certain that is really the right town. If that is the case, I don't think it's appropriate to have that link.

Fine with me. The spelling "Vshekh-Shvyatskoye" (from Steven Stucky) is probably wrong. That's why I put the question mark there. However, it's the only one available to us.Poeticbent talk 19:05, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Addendum: I did a little more digging. Although we have no article in English about the place called by Stucky "Vshekh-Shvyatskoye" (which translates as All Saints), mass executions were indeed conducted during the Red Terror on the outskirts of Moscow at the Всехсвятское village (Vsekhsvyatskoye in Google translate). There's an article in Russian Wikipedia about the local cemetery where the mass graves are located. The cemetery is called Мемориально-парковый комплекс (National Memorial Complex). Nowadays, Vsekhsvyatskoye is a city neighbourhood. In English Wikipedia we have a red link to that toponym at Sokol District of Moscow, with references. Poeticbent talk

I've added a redlink to Vsekhsvyatskoye. How about that?--Carabinieri (talk) 15:20, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

• The OnPolishMusic.com website doesn't look like a reliable source to me. It looks like a one-man project. Tell me if I'm mistaken.

You're correct about the OnPolishMusic.com being a "one-man project", but the scans of the original obituaries and pages from the period newspapers are priceless. Please note, to the right of the webpage, there's a list of sources used. It's a judgement call. Poeticbent talk

I've had another look at it and I really don't feel it should be used as a source. What information currently in the article is mentioned only on that website and in any of the other sources? Even if we remove it as a source, there's no reason we can't keep it as an external link.--Carabinieri (talk) 15:20, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Go for it. Poeticbent talk 15:58, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

• The article states that Lutosławski was already preparing for an indpendent Poland in 1915. Is that really true? In 1915, the war was far from over. Was Poland's independence really already clear at the time? Why were Poles expelled from Congress Poland in Russia in the first place? Wasn't Congress Poland basically part of Russia?--Carabinieri (talk) 16:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Congress Poland was a puppet state created after the defeat of Napoleon. In the following decades the Poles from the so-called Russian Poland were deported to Siberia in record numbers; some 80,000 of them in a single year of 1864, the largest deportation action ever commenced by the Russian Empire.[1] By the year 1915 everybody knew about Poland's imminent return to independence. See: Polish Military Organisation created by Józef Piłsudski in August 1914, the core of the future Polish Army. His intentions were clear from the start, leading to an Oath crisis triggered by the Act of 5th November 1916 signed by the Emperors Wilhelm II of Germany and Franz Joseph of Austria. Poles striving to return to re-emerging sovereign Poland from Murmansk, at the time of Lutosławski activities there, were most likely descendants of those Siberian exiles. Poeticbent talk 18:19, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification.--Carabinieri (talk) 18:26, 1 October 2014 (UTC)