Talk:Man in Black (Lost)

Creating the article

I realized there was alot of discussion regarding The MIB / Monster from Lost to have it's own article. So I decided to start one up. Here it is, I'll let people more qualified with editing wikipedia to fill in the rest fill in the rest. (Robertomaynard (talk) 23:28, 27 March 2010 (UTC)).

Wow great job guys. The article just needs an image of either Titus Welliver or Terry O'Quinn as the man in black which doesn't infringe any copyright claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertomaynard (talk • contribs) 17:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

agreed, an image of both the actors I think is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.186.21.105 (talk) 02:56, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I Believe that we have already seen the man in black in an other human form.

'Christian Shephard' father of both Jack & Claire came to the island already dead witch is the same way John Locke Came back to the island. He is seen Alive multiple times on the island and appears and disappears like the man in black aka John Locke currently sometimes does. You might also have noticed that he is the one that made Claire stay on the island witch explains why she later calls him 'her friend' He is also telling John Locke to say 'hi' to the his son. DjRavix (talk) 21:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

This is not a forum. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Based on the newest episode, I think it is more appropriate to have a pic of the actor instead of the smoke cloud now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.186.21.105 (talk) 04:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Rewriting the "biography" section

The scetion has to be rewritten. Facts should be written in the order appearing in the TV series so readers can see how the story was developed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

No. Like all Lost characters (or any fictional character) this article should cover the Man In Black's story in an In-Universe style following his character development chronologically. (Robertomaynard (talk) 20:14, 10 April 2010 (UTC)).

No that is just stupid. All the other Lost character articles are written in this fashion, and the Man in Black is indeed a main character. The facts need to be told chronologically from the mythologies point of view like all the other character articles. Plus writing it in that fashion would be confusing to readers. -- User:98.95.60.137

We have to rewrite all articles then. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Taking bets now on birth name

I'm in for Esau. They are fighting for parental love and right to gain the "birthright" of protecting the island. Esau pledges to kill Jacob, Jacob kills Esau, etc etc.173.64.201.181 (talk) 10:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

See Magioladitis's post above. --81.155.159.109 (talk) 13:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

They said in an interview last week that he is not getting a name. –thedemonhog talk • edits

It's Samuel Via Kristin Dos Santos--Aresef (talk) 14:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'Samuel' was not ever a reference to MiB. It might be how the scripts referenced one particular form of MiB played by Titus, but it is never used in the show, not even for the Tidus scenes. In the year 2007 they referenced MiB as 'Locke'. Ofus (talk) 04:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Indeed the name 'Samuel' was never specified on the show, but we should at least mention the name since that's what is used in the teleplays. It's not like the article is titled 'Samuel'- it is fair to briefly mention it as we have in parentheses. -- Wikipedical (talk) 05:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Limited to one form of MiB, sure, it is fair to briefly mention it outside of the lead and main character box, in unbolded text. But putting it in the lead gives it far too much weight. Ofus (talk) 05:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The referenced “E!” article doesn't contain “Samuel” anywhere on the page, even in user comments. Both video clips posted there are not available anymore. So it's absolutely unclear how that reference could be a “reliable source”, if “source” at all. Unless having an official source, the name Samuel should be removed from this article. 217.172.21.161 (talk) 17:58, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The video clips are available. In the second one, at about 2:45 in, Kristin of E! says "The Man in Black did have a name that was in the scripts... The name was Samuel." While the name is obviously not mentioned in the series due to storytelling purposes, it's still his name. -- Wikipedical (talk) 19:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

If you're sure about video availability nowadays (not only a still preview picture and the “E!” logo clip, but the whole clips themselves), then it's obviously a country-restricted content [1]. Can such a source be considered appropriate for encyclopedia? (Not to mention that it is merely an outsider's blog.) 217.172.21.161 (talk) 17:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

There is another problem as well. Wikipedical is correct that the hostess says @ 2:45 "The Man in Black did have a name that was in the scripts... The name was Samuel." However, she makes another statement @ 3:17: "I think they just decided to not give him a name, 'cause it was cooler for him to just be this 'entity'". That statement indicates that MiB was not ever given a name in the actual show. Ofus (talk) 06:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

We agree that he was never given a name in the actual show. No one disputes that. The statement in the article mentions that in the scripts, the name is Samuel. This article should mention that. -- Wikipedical (talk) 00:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I vote for "Samuel". In spanish it appears like Samuel, in portuguese it´s called Jacob´s Enemy but in the first line it says he´s called Samuel. Bachi (speak to me) 23:08, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

The Lost People just put out a video for 2011 Comic-Con where they jokingly mention that MIB's name is Barry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROKCh7TyRcA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.21.201 (talk) 03:38, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Black Rock Massacre

"After the Black Rock crashes onto the island, the Man in Black appears as the smoke monster and kills everyone on board except Richard Alpert (Nestor Carbonell)."

In Ab Aeterno doesn't Capt. Alvar Hanso actually kill two of the three prisoners shackled in the hold of the ship with Richard narrowly escaping execution when Hanso is distracted by the screams of the crew on deck as they are attacked by the Smoke (Man in Black)? If my memory of this is correct could someone change it? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ms.panda.815 (talk • contribs) 11:00, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Tree-Huggers' Nightmare

There might not be anything to this; I just felt like typing-in a random comment, as is my privilege. Anywho, upon reviewing the 'pilot' episode of "Lost", and subsequent episodes, I noticed that the "smoke monster" seems only confined to the foliage and fauna of the island. In the pilot, the scary apparition the hapless castaways first discerned on that eventful and frightful night was the raging monster. It appeared that it wanted to attack them, but like certain species of predators was hindered, due perhaps to lack of opportunity and advantage, or some other reason. I surmise that "Smokey" can't pass beyond the foliage and dirt(or sand). Certainly this must be true when Jacob and various ppl who are in-the-know insist that the creature can't pass on soil, water, and fire(?)

Now, this seems somewhat contradictory as when the monster first appeared to try to kill his intended target (who we now know was the pilot of "815", it was raining. Perhaps "Smokey" can exist when there's falling water as long as it's in the heavy foliage enveloping the entity. It also makes sense that whether in human "form" or otherwise, the monster can't leave the island, as it is surrounded by water. this seems also contradictory, as "Locke" makes the statement that he can leave the island, just not in his "pure" form perhaps. Or was he just lying? --69.74.186.247 (talk) 20:38, 14 September 2011 (UTC)--184.248.12.204 (talk) 05:30, 29 March 2016 (UTC)Veryverser — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.248.3.83 (talk)

John Locke A Coward?

The "Man-in-Black", "The Smoke Monster", of "Smokey" insist that John Locke was a coward, which was why he gave reason that Locke Killed himself. Of course, I'm of the opinion that none of what's said by the monster is true, primarily because, like, he's a M-O-N-S-T-E-R, y'all!!!

But more than that, besides knowing that the evil entity is a mass-murdering and manipulative liar who ungratefully uses Locke's image, the legacy of the character John Locke-hapless as its been-was of course heroic. It does take a brave soul to not only confront his demons, but even as the monster attests, John was willing to explore a whole new aspect(actually a new lease on life,) of opportunity given to someone who should have given-up hope. I would think someone who expected to die in a mid-air plane crash, survive, and literally within hours miraculously has his spine healed and is able to walk again to change his perspective. The new lease is that Locke really had nothing at all to return to after his outback adventure (which seems to have given him some confidence. Actually, I couldn't see how a paraplegic can keep-up with other outdoors-men in a wheel-chair, much less capture and skin boars in such a condition.

Locke is right there with Sheppard, Kate, Jarrah, and Michael in trying to find a way off the island by exploring its interior. Also, Locke is somewhat-dare I make such an uh, unmanly statement-a sympathetic and loving person as he gives comfort and ease to Walt, Kate, and The Junkie.

When Locke has a lapse of "faith" and miscalculates the outcome of not pushing the button, he resolves to clean-up his mess by meditating in a sweat-teepee I think it's called. (I reserve judgement as to whether either of the two tricksters, Jacob or "Smokey" spoke to him while he was "sweatin' out" his resolve. He then takes the most daring plight to rescue Eko from the "Dharma Bears" who have become man-eaters!!! (I personally would have demurred and elected to have thrown bad-asses Kate, Sayid and Sawyer at'em, since all three are hard wired for a fight at a blink!) Oh yes, I forgot. He initiates and ventures forth before all the scaredy-cat survivors(and that includes Kate and Shepard,) and brings first kill to the object of their prime terrors: A very clever wild boar. Coward? *pfttth*!!!

And lastly, I do think it is a good sign of one's character when they decline a tempting invitation by a contentious 'prince of lies' to kill the one person who has defined grief and misery in their life from birth. Again Sawyer is elected by John to kill the object of both their ruin because like Kate, John Ford has "murder-in-his-heart". (It would have been interesting if Locke, instead of being head of the "Others", could have been selected to to head the "Temple" instead of that weepy, constipated Jap: John would have proven more wily and resourceful in dealing with both "Smokey" and the inept decision to revive the dead Jarrah. Plus, Locke had "faith" and "kung-fu fooey" didn't!!!

Lastly, Locke makes the two ultimate, selfless sacrifices. Of course setting the "atlas" wheel back on its axis, knowing it would transport him away fom the island, the one thing he never wanted to do-leave that is. And then tricked by Jacob in believing his death would somehow save the island and his left comrades(now that's having just TOO MUCH FAITH,)commits suicide! Except Ben Linus intervenes and murders him.(I'll get to that matter in a appropriate discussion section.)

You wanna see someone who never had faith in himself or anything\anyone, and a true coward? Why,that obvious would be Desmond (Dizzy) Hume, with Rose Nadler running a close second!!!

So, of course "Smokey" just lies to everyone, since his interim goal is to kill everyone on the island, and that includes Claire Littleton!!! What does puzzle me is that when "MIB" tells Ford and Kate that Locke was eliminated as a candidate because he was "weak"(not a murderer, I suppose,) why didn't they counter his assertion? "Smokey" took Locke's form because he was one of the few ppl. most would readily trust!!!

One last thing: Why weren't Rose and Bernard Nadler considered "candidates"? They were arguably the only survivors and the last to remain on the island, while the others "escaped" or died? and they proved that they could weather the privations and dangers of the island with just each other, the two most unlikeliest of the survivor!!! And the monster was right there all along and could have manipulated them "three ways from sunday". For that matter, why couldn't the dog, "Vincent" been selected? --69.74.186.247 (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2011 (UTC)--184.248.12.204 (talk) 05:30, 29 March 2016 (UTC)Veryverser

Incomprehensible

I just watched the first two seasons of Lost and reading over this storyline, it is just incomprehensible to me to try and follow. I don't blame the Wikipedia editors who put it together, it's the Lost writers' fault. Still, if anyone could improve upon this and make it more comprehensible, it would be very welcome. "Lost" is indeed an appropriate name for anyone trying to follow the plot of this show. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 21:38, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

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Changed unclear first sentence

The first sentence previously said that the entity most frequently called "The Man in Black" is a character from Lost. I don't think it meant to. I think it was supposed to mean that the most frequent name for the entity on Lost was The Man in Black, so I changed it. If the article was really saying that the most frequent reference to The Man in Black is to a character on Lost, rather than to, say, Johnny Cash, there should be a reference cited with some evidence for that before the sentence is changed back. FideliaE (talk) 01:50, 11 August 2019 (UTC)