Talk:Maltese honey bee

Maltese honey bee depicted on stamps

how about we include the following set of stamps that depicts the maltese honey bee which was issued by maltapost some years ago https://www.maltapost.com/news-details?id=4998 --NahlaMaltija (talk) 19:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

deleted part

""where prior to summer 2022 over 5500 beehives were kept by over 250 beekeepers""

those figures including also the non-Ruttneri colonies - there no stats indicating how many of the colonies are ruttneri --NahlaMaltija (talk) 16:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough, I thought it was an interesting piece of info. to show how small the beehive population was on the island and therefore potentially showing how easily the Amr bee could be under threat from a small number of hives. Do you know of any published info. on how many Amr hives there are on Malta, or how many honey bee queens are imported into the island each year - sometimes the local Agriculture Department via the Bee Inspectors will publish that data? Bibby (talk) 19:13, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

otherwise that part needs clarification as it gives the impression that those colonies are ruttneri

- no there is no such stats, the Coalition is putting pressure on the government to start collecting that info - but without expensive genetic testing it is really difficult to know NahlaMaltija (talk) 19:31, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

That is DEFINITELY 100% what NEEDS to be done next... you may find that it is not very expensive to do, if you can find a lab in a university, etc. that has the equipment it's quite straight forward to do (for a basic DNA result). The quickest, cheapest and best (more accurate for an island average) would be to go around the island over a few days at the height of summer and collect drones with a drone trap (butterfly net on the end of a long pole with a queen pheromone lure in it), and then also collect honey bees by setting up feeding stations at the same time in the same place. These bees can then be combined into Drones and Workers in only say five sets each (corresponding to each location) - the individual bees are then combined and the err mush is DNA tested, this gives you a very quick, easy and cheap way of seeing what the proportion of DNA's are flying on the island. THEN you could do the more expensive DNA analysis of testing individual hives in individual apiaries. the first would tell you what you have on the island, and should you be concerned, and the second would tell you what you have left to work with. Judging from what I've read in the past couple of days (and few months as in Ireland they are trying to get legislation passed to protect the Amm bee - they haven't a chance, no science to back up the argument) you should be successful in getting to Amr protected to some degree, best case an outright ban, worst case a system in which Licenses are issued to beekeepers at present that want to import, but that no further ones will be issued after the first year, and the license lapses IF it isn't used - basically you'll get a bee ban eventually, it'll just take longer.

Oh, and if you discover with that DNA analysis that the intro-gression is high, you can harvest the sperm from drones and preserve it, that's do-able and not that expensive. Bibby (talk) 23:15, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your detailed reply, there is lot of work going on by the coalition including a review of the local and EU laws to verify whether a ban on imports is permissible. Thus why a page about the coalition is important as there will lot of upcoming information to post. NahlaMaltija (talk) 05:03, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

You might have better luck then with trying to get a wiki page set up for just the Coalition instead / as well? 2A02:C7E:2D56:3A00:C8CC:4E07:57E2:80D7 (talk) 16:59, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

A Wiki page dedicated to the Coalition (but Linked to the Maltese Bee page), would need to be set up by a non member, otherwise it would automatically be rejected. It could be done if we start putting it together. NahlaMaltija could start putting one together on his Sandbox page and (I think this can be done) link us into it via our Talk pages, we can then edit it, etc. to get it ready. The more the merry-er Ho-Ho ;-) Bibby (talk) 17:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

out of curiosity, since accounts on wikipedia are not linked to any real identity, how could someone verify whether the writer is a member or non member of the coalition? NahlaMaltija (talk) 11:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I have no idea...

I suspect there may be ways, to identify computers, etc. but I guess that only kicks in when someone is being promoted to an Admin. / Mod. or something? Bibby (talk) 20:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

noted NahlaMaltija (talk) 20:33, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

we have already started drafting the page

Draft:Coalition for the Conservation of the Maltese Honey Bee NahlaMaltija (talk) 11:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Do you have any DNA tests to show the evidence of hybridization? Bibby (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

the genetic testing done was by analysing the mitochondrial DNA which indicates the origin rather than hybridisation. The latter would require sequencing of the nuclear DNA. However, hybridisation can be easily proven by morphometric analysis - which reflects what's in the nuclear DNA. There is also a software that helps in this

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00218839.2020.1827705?journalCode=tjar20 NahlaMaltija (talk) 20:32, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Be careful of wing morphometric analysis, research that I've seen from Ireland (not yet published) which compared the estimated DNA from wing morphometric analysis, potentially showed a 25% error rate, just to give you one example, recent wing morphometric analysis from England have got the beekeepers there convinced their bees are hybridizing with the A. m. caucasia, without realising that there is a natural cross-over of its wing measurements with those of the local A. m. mellifera. Bibby (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

"Coalition for the Conservation of the Maltese Honey Bee" section

Hi NahlaMaltija

Thank you for your recent contribution to this wiki page. But I have a few questions / queries.

1. Your name is NahlaMaltija which means Maltese Bee, which suggests to me that you are in some way connected (maybe representing) the Coalition for the Conservation of the Maltese Honey Bee, is that right?

2. Apart from the first sentence, the rest of the Section is unsupported; the Source cited does not re-iterate the statements / aims. Are you able to provide direct links / sources to support these claims, etc.

3. As you appear to be more familiar with beekeeping on Malta and the A. m. ruttneri can you provide us with more Sources / Links for this page, to increase it's accuracy and relevant content?

The first two questions are very important, if you could answer them as soon as you can, it would be appreciated. Thank you in advance. Bibby (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Bibby thanks for your message.

1. Yes I am one of the founders of the new organisation
2. The website is in Maltese so the aims are objectives are listed in Maltese - Just the scroll down the main page and check google translate the part "DWARNA" https://nahlamaltija.wordpress.com
3. yes I can do that

NahlaMaltija (talk) 18:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

regarding 3 - I have just added more references NahlaMaltija (talk) 18:10, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, unfortunately if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the page Maltese honey bee, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. Wiki asks that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{request edit}} template);
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:Spam);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or PROMOTING anyone or anything is not permitted. Bibby (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi there is no conflict of interest as we are just stating the AIMS and OBJECTIVE that are in the statute which is a legal document. This is an NGO that was established to conserve the Maltese honey bee. In the article we are just stating facts which were verified by an independent source (https://www.guidememalta.com/en/buzz-national-coalition-launched-to-protect-the-maltese-honeybee). The Maltese honey bee is on the verge of extinction and without this NGO, this will happen sooner than what we think. Thus this NGO is essential in the conservation effort of this very rare bee. NahlaMaltija (talk) 19:58, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Please read the links provided. You have not otherwise you would not have said "there is no conflict of interest". It would be normal / common place for your entire Edit (additions) to this page to be summarily deleted (reverted). I'm just saying this for you to not be surprised if that happens: That's why I've stepped in to try and prevent that and work with you and these new edits, containing important information. It's only the section for the new Coalition that you will have a WP:COI.

Welcome to wiki editing. Hopefully you will also assist in other pages. Bibby (talk) 22:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

we are still new to wiki editing and there is a lot of material to read and to familiarise ourselves with. It will take us time and we hope to work together for the greater good. thanks NahlaMaltija (talk) 17:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Template Message

Recently this page has undergone a re-write, and I believe has had the needed Sources added to it to justify the removal of this Template requesting additional Sources. Anyone that objects please say so in this Talk Section, otherwise I will have it removed shortly.

If you want to help further, I would be grateful if you could provide a link / source for the date of the arrival of varroa onto the island, and also can you support the claim that they are defensive against pests (I don't mean aggressive to the beekeeper) ... like beetles? I've heard it shows defensive against the Asian Hornet?? Bibby (talk) 23:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

we dont have the asian hornet here, what you mean is oriental hornet.

- i dont know where they got the source that it breeds well with the italian bee

- regarding being defensive against wasps and hornets - you can find that in the following scientific paper https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/abs/1997/04/Apidologie_0044-8435_1997_28_5_ART0005/Apidologie_0044-8435_1997_28_5_ART0005.html

this part

https://nahlamaltija.wordpress.com/2022/07/23/maltese-honeybee-vs-oriental-hornet/#jp-carousel-106

the NGO captured videos regarding the defensive mechanisms - just look them up on youtube as i cannot post them here

the ngo channel on youtube is Koalizzjoni ghall-konservazzjoni tan-nahla maltija NahlaMaltija (talk) 17:36, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

regarding Varroa arrival , the information is in this study but there is only an abstract available , would need an account for the full thesis

https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/handle/123456789/64471 NahlaMaltija (talk) 17:38, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Just removed this Template, took a long time, but Team Work got there in the end! Thanks NahlaMaltija for the help! Bibby (talk) 23:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Welcome NahlaMaltija (talk) 05:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Amr vs Oriental hornet

Now that is impressive! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQDW_IPUI8Y

We might be able to get that on the wiki page, I've never put a video on a page before so I would need to figure it out, and check that copyright is Ok. Bibby (talk) 23:22, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes there are much more videos with different strategies, they can even block the hive entrance with propolis. Or stay on alert at the entrance NahlaMaltija (talk) 05:12, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

There is also a video in english about the maltese honeybee if you wish to publish NahlaMaltija (talk) 05:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Strategies against the Oriental Hornet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMDEsW1AeFc

Maltese honeybee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CCAlUXlaGU

--NahlaMaltija (talk) 09:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)