Talk:Malik Maqbul Tilangani

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Please only add those facts with credible references. --Altruism 10:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mr Altruism,

Vepachedu pages are a poor source of Telugu history. For years, the draft histroy is incomplete. In addition, many comments of Vepachedu betray his bias and prejudice to certain communities. Many of his remarks lack historical basis. It is unfortunate that his webpages are widely referred by certain groups elated by "glorious" accounts given by Vepachedu. Please delete Vepachedu references and add books by Kotha Bhavaiah Choudary and M. Somasekhara Sarma.

Gannama Nayak (Malik Maqbul) was not a treacherous person. He was captured along with Prataparudra, Harihara, Bukka, Jagannatha Pandit etc by Ulugh Khan and taken to Delhi. Prataparudra committed suicide on the way. The others were converted to Islam. Harihara & Bukka weere sent to Dwarasamudram to put down Hoysala rebellion. They reconverted to Hinduism and established Vijayanagar empire. Maqbul (Gannama Nayak) did not have this opportunity as he was sent to far-away Multan to administer Sindh. He proved his worth there. He was sent to Warangal as a Governor when Musunuri Kapaya Nayak asserted independence, because Gamnnama was familiar with Warangal. However, Kapaya repulsed Gannama's attack. It is possible that Gannama made a half-hearted attack on his fellow Nayak. Both were together earlier serving Prataparudra. Later, Maqbul was sent to Gujarat where again he proved his worth. He was taken into Sultan's court and earned a great name as a capable Wazir. He was given the honour "Khan-i-Jahan". He died a natural death and a big mausoleum was bulit in his honour, which stands to this day, near Nizamuddin railway station in Delhi.Kumarrao 12:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated edits

Dear 220.226.199.10,

Do not edit without giving reason and supporting citations. The original article is based on large number of sources including those of muslim historians. Take an Username and do your edits after discssing on this page.Kumarrao (talk) 07:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Delhi Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Delhi workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Delhi or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 15:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Conversion

Gannama was captured along with King Prataparudra. The choice for them was conversion to Islam or being flayed alive. The king chose to commit suicide. Gannama was converted under pressure.Kumarrao (talk) 10:08, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Gannama was not castrated. There was no such reference in the book by M.S. Sarma.122.175.82.141 (talk) 14:53, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

july

@Kautilya3: Where in the article it claims that he converted from Hinduism? Yes, the conversion took place but where does the source say he was a "Hindu". Can you cite a WP:HISTRS which clearly say that he converted from Hinduism to Islam? What I removed was just a blocked sock's edit, not supported by the source. Ratnahastin(t.c) 12:07, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

You won't find any sources saying he was a "Hindu" because the term "Hinduism" didn't exist then. But that was the religion (in modern parlance) that was practised in Andhra at that time. If you have any doubt if he was a practising Hindu or not, the fact he commissioned a translation of Markandeya Puranam should settle the issue. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:19, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

And that needs to be decided by reliable sources. Judging his religion based on a puranam is  WP:OR. We can't say all Indians were either Hindus or Muslims that time, there were many other religions including, jainism, buddhism, atheism, christianity at that time. In general, there are enough indications to know that what was the religion of the person that time, such as Guru Nanak in those days, he is referred as born a Hindu by sources. But if reliable sources don't mention the religion then it means that the former religion is unclear. We can change back to Category:Converts to Islam as supported by the source. Ratnahastin(t.c) 03:39, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

For example, when Muhammad Ali or Michael Jackson or Cat Stevens embraced Islam, they did not declare in the template, I am going to convert from 'XYZ'. We infer from the upbringing, name, family, reputed sources, interviews etc. Especially within India's Hindu majority setup, as per constitution anyone who is NOT Muslim/Christian/Parsi/Jew is considered (yes, including Buddhists and Sikhs) as Hindu. Even if a Muslim in India gives up his religion and is yet to adopt a new faith can still be considered as Hindu as per constitution. BUT, here it's not even that (i.e. from Sikh or Buddhist family etc.). So, one should bring 'evidence' to show that one was actually NOT a Hindu (i.e if he was a Parsi/Jew/etc). You have similarly removed categories from many pages, please revert those for which there are enough sources. Loveall.human (talk) 04:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Michael Jackson never embraced Islam though. Can you stay on the topic? Ratnahastin(t.c) 04:51, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Should have been Jermaine Jackson in place of Michael Jackson for what I was trying to explain. Sticking to this topic, how can one prove that one was certainly a 'Hindu'? Or, shouldn't it be the other way, with evidence to prove that one was not a Hindu? Why did you remove tags of MANY pages without even discussing in the relevant talk page or in my talk page? Loveall.human (talk) 05:11, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Onus is on you to verify your original research than ask evidence to refute something that hasn't happened. See WP:V and WP:OR. Ratnahastin(t.c) 05:21, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

For example, in this version, the citation had this source which even has the certificate of conversion. But, you removed the tag here, ⁣ just like the MANY other pages, WITHOUT any discussion or verifying them the sources. Is this vandalism? Sticking to the above topic, what is the criteria now to say that she was not a Hindu, shouldn't the onus be on who is claiming otherwise with evidence? Loveall.human (talk) 05:39, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

The source say that these "speculations" are not verified and "remains to be seen when the truth will be revealed". Misrepresenting the sources (note that addition of such categories requires self identification per WP:BLPCAT) by derailing this discussion with off-topic comments about unrelated article won't justify your WP:OR. Ratnahastin(t.c) 06:01, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

It is just 'one' of the sources, even with the certificate for conversion. The "speculation" and "remains to be seen when the truth will be revealed" was clearly about her marriage, not on her conversion. It is you who should bring evidence the other way. Why are you misleading your mass vandalizing. You have done many such without even bothering to communicate or check or remove for specific pages. For example here, even for one who is not alive for Periyar Dasan why did you remove the category meant for organizing meant for List of converts to Islam from Hinduism? And all these mass undoing without even discussing, so I had to comment in this conversation. As discussed here, there is an unhealthy mob bullying pattern that is being observed in pushing far right wing POV which is keeping List of converts to Christianity from Hinduism and List of converts to Islam from Hinduism pages from maturing for almost 5 years stuck with such disruptive activities. Hope admins notice the pattern beyond all the Wiki policy reasons for selectively for certain lists, while others are not. Most importantly need 'discussion' in the relevant page/my talk page for genuine collaboration instead of mass undoings.Loveall.human (talk) 08:07, 24 July 2021 (UTC)