Talk:Malayalam cinema/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Moderated discussion on the location of the Malayalam film industry

Extended content

Location of Malayalam movie industry Kochi as the location of Malayalam movie industry is well known and reported very often in media and this information well cited on this page. An edit by 69.47.228.36 removed this information and all the associated citations. Instead 69.47.228.36 inserted "Thiruvanthapuram and Kochi" which is wrong. It has no evidence or citation. Prathambhu (talk) 06:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Prathambhu has specific agenda to glorify Kochi, which is very evident from his contributions, and acquired warnings. The user was involved in various edit wars in Kochi page too. The links provided along with the article to prove that Kochi is the only centre of Malayalam cinema is not serving the purpose. Most of the links are dead links, the information is missing there. Other links are about news items which says opening of some studios in Kochi. No links were provided to prove Kochi is having all the studios and production facilities in Kerala. So, to avoid an edit war in this page, I suggest to utilize the talk page to resolve the conflict. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 06:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC) 69.47.228.36 wanted to add a statement including Thiruvananthapuram as base of Malayalam movie industry which is wrong and has no citation. This seems to be an agenda to glorify Thiruvananthapuram by giving wrong statement. Aarem seem to support it again with ZERO evidence, no citation. 8 out of the 11 citations added by me are working links. Others are available in print. I can upload scanned copies of the same. Most of the additions I added in Malayalam movie page are not Kochi specific as can be seen by my edits of. Aarem is wrong on that. On the contrary Aarem at this point is supporting a wrong statement with NO evidence. I too suggest to utilize the talk page to resolve the conflict. In that case we should revert to a version prior to the edit war started by 69.47.228.36. Let us resolve this first if you need to add any change to this. Best ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.248.130.148 (talk) 07:06, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Prathambhu (talk) 07:24, 19 February 2013 (UTC) The information existed in the previous pages for a long time. It was edited out and brought back several times without any citations. I have only provided authentic information by adding citation. Same information existed in South Indian film industry page also for a long time. Here again, I have only added citations. Out of the 11 links I provided, 8 are working. The scanned copy of the article from Passline Business Magazine is below, that makes it 9/11 links working. File:Mollywood-Kochi.jpg I hope now it is clear that it is only substantiation of existing information that I did with addition of citations. With this clarification let me revert to the version existed. Prathambhu (talk) 07:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Edit by ChroniclerSanjay has some citations missing. Please add it. Prathambhu (talk) 07:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Malayalam film is not centered in Kochi. The shooting locations may be centered in Kochi now, but the production facilities are not. Aleppey and Trivandrum has most of the production facilities. If some one could list down these facilities in Kochi and other places, you would be knowing that the industry is not centered in Kochi. This is my opinion based on the knowledge I have in film industry. Thank you guys. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.90.103.156 (talk) 01:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC) Prathambu definitely has some agenda. Malayalam film is not centered in Kochi. How can he claim that based on some swele reports. People seem to forget Kinfra media park in Trivandrum which as Prasad labs, Vismaya max, Toonz animation, Merryland studio etc. Just because some actors stay in Kochi, no one can claim that malayalam film is Kochi centric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.228.36 (talk) 01:49, 20 February 2013 (UTC) It is the edits that must stop first until consensus is reached. Unsubstantiated claims cannot be inserted based on personal assertions as done by 183.90.103.156. After adding unsubstantiated claims no point in asking not to revert. The version until Dec 18, 2013 carrying news citations will stay until proved wrong with substance. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 03:53, 20 February 2013 (UTC) I have added citations from The Hindu, Malayala Manorama, Times of India, Passline Business Magazine, New Indian Express, Deshabhimani, The Deccan Chronicle and many more. In all 11 citations. Out of which 9 are working and verifiable. Even for the only two links that had expired, news is available from different sources on net and in print. All of them carries interviews of Actors, Technical persons, directors etc associated with Malayalam movie industry. Everyone in every news report says the same thing : Kochi is the hub of Malayalam movie industry. Below I give three examples. For more, you can read the news citations. 1. Malayala Manorama report dated 06.05.2012 titled "Kamal in Kochi" When Malayalam cinema that was earlier located in Thiruvananthapuram and Kodambakkam started relocating to Kochi Kamal also decided to rethink. Further Kamal says "Kochi has studios that matching facilities to those in Chennai. Film stars and Technical persons are buying houses and plots in Kochi due to this". Report further says that Kamal himself bought a new apartment at Edappally in Kochi 2. Passline Business Magazine dated 31.03.2011 titled "Mollywood comes to Kochi" Passline Business Magazine interviews well known actor Indrajith Sukumaran who says “Every State has its own film cities, Tamil Nadu has Chennai, Andhra Pradesh Hyderabad, Maharashtra Mumbai. Likewise Kochi is becoming Kerala’s film city” and “Take a look at my shooting schedules. I used to spend most of my days in Kochi, but only few days in Thiruvananthapuram. Staying in Kochi is advantageous to me”. It goes on to report that `Indrajith, who shifted to Maradu in Kochi from Thiruvananthapuram nearly five years ago'. 3. The only studio in Alappuzha is owned by Kunchacko Boban and he says in the same interview "“I used to feel like a frog in the well while being in Alappuzha, my hometown. My arrival here has wrought a lot of changes in my life. It has made me understand the new trends and current developments and opportunities in the film world. Most of the people connected with the Malayalam film industry, especially technicians, artists and directors, now live here, some in their own flats or homes and others in rented houses. My being here enables me to interact with them easily". Further it says, `he admits that his entry into Kochi has made him enter the film industry too' and `Kunchacko Boban, the ‘chocolate hero’ of Mollywood, came from Alappuzha nearly five years ago to take up residence in a flat, also at Kadavanthra'. These are the well known people in Malayalam film industry originally from Thrissur, Thiruvananthapuram and Alappuzha says. News reports in other citations substantiates this. Are we to accept arbitrary edits by unknown people using IP 69.47.228.36, 183.90.103.156 as authentic reports on Malayalam film industry. 69.47.228.36, 183.90.103.156 seem to love Thiruvananthapuram a lot and want to insert it anywhere they could. But doing it without evidence is wrong and misleads readers. I checked the history of Aarem. It is the same user operating under another name, which I recognized immediately. He along with one more user, Samaleks, tried to do a very similar thing in Kochi 4 years ago. They insisted on adding a false statement that "Kochi was undergoing economic stagnation until 2003" in Kochi page. After the intervention by administrator Hiberniantears and ensued [(click to see)], they had to withdraw their misleading statements on ``economic stagnation" from Kochi page. Aarem had contributed substantially Thiruvananthapuram page write from the beginning and tends to glorify Thiruvananthapuram through whatever means - fair or unfair. In addition, Aarem also tries deliberately cast Kochi through unsubstantiated means. Edits on Malayalam cinema page by Aarem is another example of this. Also I just notice that ChroniclerSanjay is reverting to an older version which does not carry many of the citations I made. Please add it as it is important to this discussion. Prathambhu (talk) 04:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC) Malayalam Cinema is not centered in Kochi. Most of the production facilities are in Trivandrum. The leading production facilities in Kochi includes Max Labs, Lal Media, Navodaya(not fully functional now) and sound recording studio annex of Chitranjali. There is no leading animation studios in Kochi and no studios with large campus for outdoor shooting facility. 60% of the films that are now released in Malayalam is being shot in Kochi and suburbs. But that alone does not make it to be called the centre of industry. If in that case, before 10 years, 60% of the films were shot in Ottapalam and Pollachi. Can it be then declared as the centre of the industry? Trivandrum is having the maximum number of studio facilities and production facilities. This includes: Chitranjali studios - with and indoor studio of around 12,000 sq.ft. (second largest indoor in Asia) with sound proof floor Outdoor campus of 70 acres. Pre built Out door of Police station, Hospital, Class room, Office rooms, Village houses, Temple, etc are available. Chitranjali studio has a single window system to obtain permission from the Government Departments and agencies for various locations for shooting. It has recording studios, preview theatre, four outdoor film units, reel printing facilities 40% of the production works are carried out by Chitranjali, as the rates are subsidized by KSFDC based on published norms. Prasad Colour Labs - The leading colour labs in South India has its facilities in Trivandrum. This is the only processing lab in Kerala. They are the pioneer in Digital processing and negative processing in South India. They are the leading colour lab in Graphics (VFX) and not only Malayalam films are processed in their facility in Trivandrum (eg; Enthiran post production works were done here). Merryland studios - with a big outdoor campus facility of 36 acres. Now mostly used for mega serials Accel Animation Studios – More known for its motion capture facilities and 3D graphics. Vismayas Max – First DTS studio in Kerala. It has both animation facilities and regular film editing facilities. The sound recording unit of Vismaya is having a branch at Kochi too. Toonz Animation – Subsidiary of Singapore based Toonz company. Major works include Indian releases like Tenali Raman, Hanuman, etc and international releases like XMen and Wolverine, Gatturro etc. Now coming to number of actors residing at the place. Most of the actors have residences in both Trivandrum and Kochi. Being the centre location of Kerala it is more convenient for the actors to be in Kochi to move around various shooting locations in Kerala. This does not imply that industry is fully centered in Kochi. Also, if you look at the addresses of actors published in the official website of Amma, majority are given the address at Trivandrum as their permanent address.addresses link Even AMMA is headquartered in Thycaud, Trivandrum. If Kochi is the centre of the industry, why Association of Malayalam Movie Artistes(AMMA) is not headquartered in Kochi ? There are many companies in Kinfra film and Video park with full SEZ facilities for animation and gaming. There are hundreds of small studios in the city to support all the "serial" shooting and production for various TV channels. Trivandrum has much more production facilities than any other city in Kerala. Events like International Film Festival of Kerala (IFFK) and presence of organizations like Kerala Film Development Corporation, Chalachitra Academy, Soorya etc are in Trivandrum. If you just need several citations, I can show the official websites of these production facilities and can put the statistics in. By googling, I also will get various amateurish reports like the one below Film_industry_returns_to_the_Capital_after_an_interval There is no point in going with these kind of biased reports to promote real estate and business in a region. So in short, the movie industry in Kerala is not centred only in one location. Major facilities are in Trivandrum followed by Kochi. So to be impartial, no one can say that Malayalam movie industry is only centered in Kochi. Infact, it is scattered across Kerala with more presence in Trivandrum and Kochi. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 07:37, 20 February 2013 (UTC) Aarem has written a Mahabharat without even the shred of an evidence. The link ::Film_industry_returns_to_the_Capital_after_an_interval he provided is as non-extant as cinema industry in Thiruvananthapuram. Amma is an organization which may register in Thiruvananthapuram or Munnar. It is only a registered office of an actors organization. What matters is what people in Film Industry says. These are contained in those reports mentioned in the page numbered 1 to 11. There are two more reports I will add. Important things is it is not a vested interest like Aarem who wrote this report. These are the only news papers of Malayalam who recognize it clearly quoting Actors, Technical Persons and other stake holders of Malayalam Movie industry. Those include film personalities, technical persons and others including from Thiruvananthapuram Alappuzha and other places in Kerala. There is no evidence that Chitranjali getting 40% of work. It is one more offspring of your imagination. It is way less as can be checked by the title credits of Malayalam movies released in past 5 years. Chitranjali appears in less than 10% of the credits ! In short studios do exists in many places of Kerala, but without any work ! That is why KSFDC started Chithranjali's Kochi unit. Yet regarding Chitranjali there are three news reports. Indian Express report dated March 6, 2010 Chithranjali unit coming to city Express News Service First Published : 06 Mar 2010 03:25:00 AM IST Last Updated : KOCHI: Chithranjali, once the final word on Malayalam films, is coming to Kochi. A unit of the Chithranjali studio under the Kerala State Film Development Corporation (KSFDC)will be opened in Kochi on Saturday. Cultural Affairs Minister M A Baby will inaugurate the studio near Kakkanad NGO Quarters at 4 pm. Union Minister K V Thomas will be the chief guest. K Babu MLA will preside over the function. P Rajeev MP will switch on the sound studio while the editing suite will be switched on by V Venu, Secretary, Cultural Affairs Department. The studio will have its first voice recording by singer K S Chithra. Chalachithra Academy chairman K R Mohanan will release the leaflet of the studio. District panchayat president P S Shyla and District Collector M Beena will also attend the function. Initially, the studio will have facilities for dubbing and editing, said KSFDC chairman K G George. The studio is being set up at a cost of Rs 35 lakh. Modern technology is being employed for sound recording and music recording. The studio unit is being set up in Kochi in view of the city's increased importance in the Malayalam film world. Soon the KSFDC will set up an outdoor unit and a shooting floor in Kochi, he said. Mathrubhumi dated December 16, 2009 കെഎസ്എഫ്ഡിസിയുടെ ഡബ്ബിങ് സ്റ്റുഡിയോ കൊച്ചിയില്‍ കൊച്ചി: കേരള സ്റ്റേറ്റ് ഫിലിം ഡെവലപ്പ്‌മെന്റ് കോര്‍പ്പറേഷന്റെ കേരളത്തിലെ രണ്ടാമത് ഡബ്ബിങ് സ്റ്റുഡിയോ ജനവരിയില്‍ കൊച്ചിയില്‍ പ്രവര്‍ത്തനമാരംഭിക്കും. കാക്കനാട് സിവില്‍ സ്റ്റേഷന് സമീപത്താണ് 25 ലക്ഷം മുതല്‍മുടക്കില്‍ അത്യാധുനിക സൗകര്യങ്ങളോടെ സ്റ്റുഡിയോ നിര്‍മിക്കുന്നത്. പഴയ കെട്ടിടം വാടകയ്‌ക്കെടുത്ത് പുതുക്കിപ്പണിതാണ് സ്റ്റുഡിയോ ഒരുക്കുന്നത്. തിരുവനന്തപുരത്ത് ചിത്രാഞ്ജലി സ്റ്റുഡിയോ മാത്രമാണ് കെഎസ്എഫ്ഡിസിക്ക് കേരളത്തിലുള്ളത്. സിനിമാ വ്യവസായം എറണാകുളത്ത് കേന്ദ്രീകരിച്ചതിനാലാണ് ഡബ്ബിങ് സ്റ്റുഡിയോ ഇവിടെ തുടങ്ങുന്നതെന്ന് കെഎസ്എഫ്ഡിസി എം.ഡി. എന്‍. അയ്യപ്പന്‍ പറഞ്ഞു. സ്വകാര്യ ഡബ്ബിങ് സ്റ്റുഡിയോകളോട് കിടപിടിക്കുന്ന സൗകര്യങ്ങള്‍ ഇവിടെയുണ്ടാകുമെന്നും എം.ഡി. അറിയിച്ചു. കോഴിക്കോട്ടും ഇത്തരത്തിലുള്ള സ്റ്റുഡിയോ ആരംഭിക്കുന്നതിന് കെഎസ്എഫ്ഡിസിക്ക് പദ്ധതിയുണ്ട്. ഷൂട്ടിങ് ആവശ്യങ്ങള്‍ക്കായി വൈകാതെ എറണാകുളത്തുതന്നെ ഷൂട്ടിങ് ഫേ്‌ളാര്‍ ആരംഭിക്കാനും പദ്ധതിയുണ്ട്. ഇതിനാവശ്യമായ സ്ഥലം ലഭിക്കുന്നതിനുള്ള നടപടികള്‍ ആരംഭിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ടെന്നും എന്‍. അയ്യപ്പന്‍ പറഞ്ഞു. The Hindu report dated March 7, 2010 Chithranjali opens studio in Kochi Staff Reporter KOCHI: K. S. Chitra, renowned playback singer, performed the switch-on ceremony of the state-of-the-art sound studio and edit suite at the Chitranjali studio complex, which was inaugurated at Kakanad here on Saturday. She also rendered a ‘slokam' marking the official inauguration of recording at the newly-set up studio. Ms. Chitra won the hearts of those present by singing the hit number, Manjalprasadavum nettiyil charthi on the occasion. She said her first song was recorded at the Chitranjali studio in Thiruvananthapuram. K. V. Thomas, Union Minister of State for Agriculture, inaugurated the studio complex taken on lease by the Kerala State Film Development Corporation. Nearly Rs. 35 lakh was spent on setting up the fully air-conditioned complex. In his recorded message aired on the occasion, M. A. Baby, Minister for Education and Culture, said that the studio in Kochi would help in improving the prospects of the organisation. K. Babu, MLA, presided over the inaugural session. He urged the stakeholders to work unitedly to overcome the crisis in the Malayalam film industry. Mr. Babu said that the new studio would step up the possibilities of film production in the commercial capital of the State. N. Ayappan, managing director of the Kerala State Film Development Corporation (KSFDC), presented a report. He said the studio houses the latest technology in sound recording. KSFDC then Managing Director says as the film industry concentrated in Kochi, Chithranjali decided to open a studio in Kochi. It is this that helped Chitranjali to get some bit of work, of late. BOTTOMLINE : Aarem and possibly others, want to insert Thiruvananthapuram as a centre of Malayalam movie industry without any reference to anyone associated with movie industry or any media reports. Hence its insertion into Malayalam cinema in this a promotional activity glorifying Thiruvananthapuram and belittling the actual role Kochi has in Malayalam cinema as exhibited by newspaper reports across the sprectrum. Prathambhu (talk) 09:58, 20 February 2013 (UTC) I have added 13 citations all of which speaks of Kochi as the centre of Malayalam cinema. Links are available to view 11 news reports out of the 13 added. The remaining two are available in print. Cited news media include The Hindu, Times of India, New Indian Express, Deccan Chronicle, Passline Business Magazine, Malayala Manorama, Mathrubhumi and Deshabhimani among others. These are the highest circulated newspapers of Kerala and they have all reported in various contexts, spread over past 5 years, that Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema. Hence the same assertion that exist in wiki Malayalam cinema page is true and devoid of any vested interests. Without independent corroboration available from authentic news sources, nobody should insert claims glorifying any place. There is no evidence anywhere in print or otherwise from established news media that Thiruvananthapuram is considered to be a centre of Malayalam film industry. Same information exists in South Indian film industry page for a long time, to which I have added same citations 15 days ago. Aarem have a history sheet of making false claims without any evidence. This is the second time I have encountered this, It seems his motto is to belittle Kochi and glorify Thiruvananthapuram with false claims. Here is the previous instance of false claims made by same Aarem  : [on "economic stagnation" in Kochi(click to see)]. Prathambhu (talk) 13:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC) Dear Prathambhu, Everyone knows that malayala cinema is not centered around Kochi. Few movies would have shot in Kochi like it used to be Pollachi/Ottappalam. Please dont mention wrong informations in wikepedia. You can mention that Kochi is being actively part of film production, but not centered around it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.228.36 (talk) 02:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Prathambu, how can you say that the film industry is centered only in Kochi when most of the production facilities are not there in Kochi? Kochi does not have even a single leading animation studio. Other than Lal media and Max lab, there is no big post production facilities in Kochi. I am not saying that Kochi is not a centre of Malayalam film industry. My point is that the industry is concentrated in both Kochi and Trivandrum. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 02:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC) There are many more post-production facilities in Kochi. One is given in the citation itself, which Aarem and friends want to edit out! Still the point is, having a post production house is not good enough. It must get work! Chithranjali's experience tells us why they had to open in Kochi. Lal Media, DLS, MaxLab etc gets big chunk of work in today's Malayalam cinema, as can be seen in title credits of most Malayalam films today. Animation studios are not relevant in this discussion on Malayalam cinema. But the claim is wrong, anyway. For instance, just see Amrita TV Documentary on Key Frames Animation Studio, Kochi. So until anyone brings up independent reports, in significant numbers, "Thiruvananthapuram as a centre of Malayalam cinema" will remain a news created by Aarem and company. It contradicts information available in a wide spectrum of media reports during past 6 years. End result is just that people will stop relying wikipedia for information, which no one here will let happen. Best, Prathambhu (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC) 69.47.228.36 edited South Indian film industry page today to suit the false statements 69.47.228.36 and few others were trying to make in Malayalam cinema page. 69.47.228.36 edited out information on Kochi as base of Malayalam cinema that existed there for a long period of time. 69.47.228.36 also edited out the news citations there. This is being recorded here for the kind attention of Administrators who may need to intervene in this issue very soon. Thanks, Prathambhu (talk) 06:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Added citations to prove that the industry is not centered only at one location. If you disagree, you may opt for Third Opinion. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 06:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Most of the links Aarem provided are organizations websites mentioned in his discussions above. That does not prove anything about its contribution to Malayalam cinema today, other than location of that organization. This has been discussed already above. For example IFFI is held in Goa. That cannot be used to claim Goa as base of Indian film industry. KSFDC and Chithranjali has already set up studio in Kochi as mentioned in The Hindu and Mathrubhumi news items above. Out of the remaining two links, one is dead. The other is the interview in a private portal (not a news media) of an actor Anoop Menon about his connection with Thiruvananthapuram where he grew up. In the interview, the actor says that growing up in Thiruvananthapuram helped him to get into cinema and cinema always belonged to Thiruvananthapuram. Neither of these statements make any claim about base of Malayalam cinema. And that was the only link purported to be a report. The news reports existed in the Malayalam cinema page explicitly claim, quoting stake holders, that Kochi is the base of Malayalam cinema. This is what was being removed through the edit war started by IP: 69.47.228.36, Aarem, IP: 183.90.103.156, IP: 183.90.103.144 and IP: 203.117.37.213. Third Opinion may not be opt for this, since there are multiple editors involved. I would request Dispute resolution noticeboard under the supervision of Administrator in this matter. Best, Prathambhu (talk) 07:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Reverted an edition by one user Aarem giving the advertisement of a firm "Film and Video park" on its own website as citation! How does a self-advertisement prove the location of film industry in Trivandrum? Also websites of Academies, Film festivals etc are given as "proofs" of location of film industry. If this had to be accepted, then people could claim Pune as the centre of Hindi film industry Bollywood because it has Pune Film Institute. I also wanted to point out case of IFFI in Goa, but that has already been done above. There is serious lack of credibility in doing such things. What was sought here was to produce independent media reports equivalent to the one existed before edit war started. Not one has been produced till now. If those who claim Thiruvananthapuram also as a hub of Malayalam film industry it would certainly have been there in independent media. I also notice, one Malayalam news report does speaks of Thiruvananthapuram as one of the yester era centres along with Kodambakkam, which is what wiki page already claims correctly. But every media report claims that today the Malayalam film industry is based in Kochi. Important for this discussion is the fact that not even one report says it is Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 13:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Kochi is the de facto hub of Malayalam cinema for the last 5 years or so. But since this is not an official status, there is always scope for a dispute. Jayakrishnan.ks100 (talk) 16:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC) Page protected The article is protected for 24 hours due to persistent multi-way edit warring for the past one week. Please seek consensus for the disputed content here before the page gets unprotected. Also, we may consider WP:Dr. JK (talk) 13:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC) This has been under discussion for a while, but without any consensus. The statement "the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kochi with a major chunk of locations, studios, production and post-production facilities there" is the one under fire. As a matter of fact, Kochi does not have the major chunk of studios and production/post-production facilities. So, it is not wise the state that Kochi is the centre of the industry. And there is no such official status too. If we just want to go by citations, even the citation produced in favor of Kochi says "If it was Trivandrum and its slang which were the favourites of filmmakers earlier, the focus has now shifted to Kochi". This means that the preferences change. In Kerala, there is no such place where the whole industry is centered in. Also most of the citations talk about film locations in Kochi. Does that means Ottappalam and Pollachi can be also considered as the centre of the industry!? As of today, Trivandrum has got more production facilities in Kerala. All the big names like Prasad colour lab, Chitranjali, Vismaya Max, Toonz, etc are present there. Hence it is evident that the industry is not centered in one location like Chennai or Hyderabad. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 06:40, 25 February 2013 (UTC) My take is that the citations does indicate Kochi is De Facto hub of Malayalam cinema. But I understand your point why this is disputable. I think both the parties should withdraw their claim. In any case, you can't resort back to edit warring. You can opt for Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests. JK (talk) 07:20, 25 February 2013 (UTC) The official website of KINFRA(Kerala Industrial Infrastructure Development Corporation; which is a Government undertaking) states that "Thiruvananthapuram is the centre of various organised film activities and also houses several reputed organisations.. "[1] Thus we are finding citation from the government backed corporations in favour of Trivandrum. So, possibilities of argument never ends! The sentence could be rewritten as "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala with a major chunk of locations, studios, production and post-production facilities in Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi." Thus we are stating that the industry came back to Kerala from Madras. This conveys the Nuetral Point of View without any false claims or unoffical crowns and glitters. Shall we reach upon a consensus here ? Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 08:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC) I'm ok with that sentence. Wonder what the other parties involved in the dispute think about it though. JK (talk) 09:09, 25 February 2013 (UTC) I am not involved (in the edit war) but I agree with Aarem's sentence. Torreslfchero (talk) 09:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Me too agree with Aarem's proposed sentence. Give Trivandrum its due and Kochi its due. That's it. Salih (talk) 17:32, 25 February 2013 (UTC) It is most important that NONE of the parties have done any study of Malayalam film industry, its modus operandi nor its business volumes. For everything, one has to depend on newspaper reports. After all, for everything else in this article we give newspaper reports as citations ! Suddenly why did it change for this case ? First, Claims made by Aarem is wrong. Website of an organization - be it public sector or private sector - make claims to advertise itself. It cannot be basis for claiming anything. For example the website of one of the post-production studios, Cochin Media City claims, "Cochin, indisputably, packs everything that is required to be South Asia’s communication hub for the future, enabling very simplified and highly cost-effective service. And CMC is strategically placed to make the best of it". Will you accept this as proof for Kochi being hub for all of South Asia? Obviously business needs advertisement, citing that as proof in wikipedia amounts to helping them unfairly. However ALL THE STAKE HOLDERS interviewed by different independent newspapers and media unanimously claim Kochi to be the hub. Not this include actors and technical persons hailing from all parts of Kerala, including Thiruvananthapuram. And these are important independent newspaper reports including The Hindu, Times of India, New Indian Express, Deccan Chronicle, Passline Business Magazine, Malayala Manorama, Mathrubhumi and Deshabhimani among others. Important, not one reports Thiruvananthapuram as a hub ! An these reports date from 2006 onwards. Second, claim of Chithranjali etc, Chithranjali was forced to start its studio and shooting floor at Kochi as film industry is concentrated there. This is stated by none other than KSFDC MD N. Ayyappan. See report from Mathrubhumi quoted above. Facts cannot be decided on vote in wikipedia, I hope. I am not surprised that one user Salih who actually fought in the edit war and another Torreslfchero suddenly springs up to enforce things through vote. Most important to note that their allergy to news reports which they frequently edit out from citations. I hope, wikipedia will contain information useful to public. Prathambhu (talk) 03:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Thanks for your comments. But I must say your tone is a little aggressive. You must read WP:POINT. I'm sure that you are assuming good faith but please try to build a consensus rather than building animosity. In this TOI article, you can read Director Renjith's statement that "Kochi is fast becoming the hub of Malayalam film industry. So we, as the representatives of the film world, want to see Kochi Metro rail becoming a reality," One thing that is clear to me from the citations is that Kochi is fast emerging as the place to be in the Malayalam Film industry and the prominence of Trivandrum is declining since the last half of the 2000's. I think you can maybe add something similar following up the sentence by Aarem. JK (talk) 06:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Kochi has the most number of post-production studios with modern facilites. Some highly successful ones like Lal Media do not keep their website. Below I list some of them and give the links to their websites, wherever available. if not I give news reports. Lal Media, DLS Filmmakers' hotspot, Chitranjali (Minister acts in movie), Vismaya studio(Mohanlal sings for Bhramaram), (Mohanlal's Sanskrit play), Megamedia Entertainements (The Hindu - BL report, Post Production buyers guide), Cochin Media City and the recently started Aries creations. (Aries is the post-prod studio for the recent movies Dracula 2012 amd Dam 999). There are many more, I will add them as I get links to them. Post production is only a part of the cinema industry. There are equally important aspects like Production and Distribution. Most production and distribution companies are located in Kochi. A few examples, MaxLab (Mohanlal), Playhouse (Mammootty), Graand productions(Dileep). Here is the link to one that opened recently Inauguration, Freedia Entertainment. Please note that despite all these links I never gave a single one among the above as citation for showing Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema. I gave only reports from independent media. I am sorry for any possible shades of aggression. I face mobbing by unknown IPs fighting edit wars in complete disregard of this talk page. Thanks. Prathambhu (talk) 07:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC) One more report. This is yesterday's The Hindu report on Cochin airport. It says ' Kochi is, now, home to state's film and TV industry ' and so on. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 09:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC) I was not involved in this edit war. After reading all the talk page discussions here, I felt that the current version of the article is the accurate. Malayalam film industry is not centered only in oone location. It was based in Chennai first. Later with the help of all studios and production facilities it came back to Kerala with more presence in Trivandrum. Later there was a time when most shooting locations were in Ottappalam area. There were many news papers reporting during 90s that the industry is now centered in Ottappalam. Again the locations shifted back to Trivandrum. In the past 5 years, Kochi was gaining popularity among the film makers. In short, the industry came back from Madras to Kerala, not to any particular place. I agree with other editors (other than Prathambhu and his sock ChroniclerSanjay) that the current version of the article is conveying needed information correctly. Thanks, Samaleks (talk) 14:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC) And here is the evidence of Prathambhu's POV pushing for Kochi : (From an admin and third party who interfered in the edit war on Kochi)After looking this over, Prathambhu is clearly editing in a tendentious manner that creates a strong POV in favor of Kochi. Since we are not here to create travel brochures, this is inappropriate editing. So, this user cannot be educated as he is carrying on his warring tendencies for each and every thing to glorify Kochi. Thanks, Samaleks (talk) 14:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Majority of TV channels are headquartered in Trivandrum: Doordarshan kerala, Asianet, Surya, Kairali, Mathrubhumi news,Amritha TV, Jai Hind. How can we rely these reports. Film industry is scattered across Kerala with significant presence in Trivandrum and Kochi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.95.148.1 (talk) 18:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Dear IP, we are not discussing TV channels here. But since you mentioned it, as a side note, TV artists/technicians are mostly based in Trivandrum and film artists/technicians are mostly based in Kochi now. JK (talk) 20:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Samaleks appearance here was most expected as has already mentioned above. Let me quote from my own reply earlier "I checked the history of Aarem. It is the same user operating under another name, which I recognized immediately. He along with one more user, Samaleks, tried to do a very similar thing in Kochi 4 years ago. They insisted on adding a false statement that "Kochi was undergoing economic stagnation until 2003" in Kochi page. After the intervention by administrator Hiberniantears and ensued Discussion (click to see), they had to withdraw their misleading statements on ``economic stagnation" from Kochi page. " He is a POV editor acting in collaboration with Aarem and had already try to insert false statements into Kochi page which, under administrator intervention, they had to withdraw following a prolonged discussion at talk page. All these can be seen at Talk page discussion (click to see). So here he did what was most expected of him. It is not user Aarem, Samaleks, Salih, Torreslfchero, ChroniclerSanjay or Prathambhu to decide where Malayalam cinema industry is located. It is the stake holders - those who are involved in Malayalam cinema. And we have already heard from them through more than a dozen news reports about what they unanimously think. Now Samaleks, Aarem, Salih , Torreslfchero seem to suggest here and elsewhere that we are four and you are only two or one (as "ChroniclerSanjay is my sock puppet") hence Malayalam cinema is not located in Kochi. Nice way of deciding ! May be the stakeholders of Malayalam cinema should be let known about the decision of these four great personae. Prathambhu (talk) 04:11, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Samaleks is not involved in this edit war, as he is involved in the same edit war at South Indian film industry page. Prathambhu (talk) 04:22, 27 February 2013 (UTC) I am not involved in this edit war and not in any on South Indian Film Industry. User Prathambhu is very offensive, and the responses are not in a dignified manner. This is very unfortunate to see such responses here in the talk page. Dude, you definitely need some break. Samaleks (talk) 14:14, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Adding today's newspaper report from The Hindu dated March 4, 2013 for administrator's attention. The reports cites number of films released in 2012 and estimates of post production works and industry estimates for other different Malayalam cinema activities. This is the latest of the independent news reports unambiguously stating Kochi as the hub of Malayalam cinema. Mollywood comes home to Kochi Quoting report : "Almost 90 per cent of work related to Malayalam cinema today happens in Kochi. Gone are the days when filmmakers rushed to Chennai to either dub or do sound recording for their films. Modern recording and dubbing studios dot the landscape of Kochi, handling almost three-fourth of the pre- and post-production work. Industry estimates show that, on an average, five to eight films are shot in the city every day". Quoting report : "Last year, DLS handled the DTS mixing of nearly 32 movies. Lal Media was also part of the post-production work of nearly 70 out of the 128 movies released in 2012". Thanks, best Prathambhu (talk) 17:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC) Definitely paid news as the article is a local city page which boasts Lal Media. It is not talking in detail about any other studio there. Infact, there are no big post-production facilities there. There is no single studio with shooting floor and indoor/outdoor sets. The article is not about Lal Media. It is about Kochi being the hub. The article appeared in The Hindu. If any one is challenging its veracity s/he could do it with The Hindu. In any case, Wikipedia trusts news reports from news papers like The Hindu rather than stray comments with personal whims and fancies. And, this article is not the only one stating this. There are more than 16 such articles in 7 to 8 equally well known, yet different, English and Malayalam newspapers. These have been cited above already provided by me, ChroniclerSanjay and JK. They all state the same. I am quite sure a wiki administrator can judge which one is "paid" : an article in a well respected national daily or a desperate anonymous comment in the face of continuous exposure of falsehood. The above article is just one more expose of the falsehood that 5 or 6 individuals are trying to propagate using the edit facility of wikipedia. Thanks, Best Prathambhu (talk) 15:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC) Report (click to see) from Malayala Manorama of March 2010 quoting KSFDC Chairman K.G.George saying that "KSFDC started Chitranjali dubbing and editing facility in Kochi considering the fact that the hub of the Malayalam cinema is located in Kochi. Outdoor shooting and shoot floor facility will also begin here soon". More than 20 independent news citations over a period of 7 years from different news papers all saying the same thing. Prathambhu (talk) 18:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC) This five-and-a-half year old news report from The Hindu in Aug 2007 describes the state of Chitranjali. It says "The Chitranjali Studio was set up in 1980 to provide processing and post-production facilities for Malayalam filmmakers. Over the years, the studio became a dead unit as a result of the failure to upgrade the infrastructure." This news report appeared 30 months before Chitranjali opened its post production facility in Kochi in March 2010. Prathambhu (talk) 20:08, 6 March 2013 (UTC) A paid article for sure. It is interesting to see these reports just after wiki edit war. And point mentioned by few fellow forumers are there in the report. Looks really suspicious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.228.36 (talk) 03:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC) This guys is blufing. The Hindu will write article to help wiki editwar ? LOL. joke of a century. this is the second one in a series of articles during the 20th anniversary of Cochin airport company. I posted first one few days back. Here is first. This one's second Mollywood comes home to Kochi. This is third one and Fourth one. All are about connectivity of Kochi. All have tag "20 years of change". ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2013 (UTC) If anyone who accuses The Hindu of giving paid articles believe in their own words, they must show the gut to take it up with The Hindu. The Hindu is one of the very few dailies respected for taking a principled stand against paid article. For example see here. If s/he does not do that, then one will be forced to presume that such an accusation was an act of smashing the mirror for finding once face scarred. As it stands, things stand very simple here. About 3 or 4 few individuals and their sock puppets were trying to insert false claims into wikipedia against dozens of media reports. Even as they try to spread falsehood, one or few more reports came further exposing them. Those who spread falsehood accused "conspiracy" behind these - a common human response in the face of exposure. The above news report did not say anything new. If it had said something which contradicts what other news reports so far said, then one could have suspected conspiracy. But all the 24 odd news reports cited so far - including the statement of KSFDC Chairman in March 2010 - said the SAME thing: Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. It is natural that those who are one a zealous mission to deprecate Kochi will find it as "bad news". Of course if The Hindu report contained what some "forumers" already said (pray, what/who are "forumers"? ), it simply means that those "forumers" are knowledgeable about Malayalam cinema industry. And it is a common place knowledge, not rocket science. Anybody who watch Malayalam movies released in last few years can see from the opening credits that a big majority of these movies had their post-production works in Lal Media, Backwater Entertainments or Megamedia in Kochi. Thanks, best Prathambhu (talk) 17:01, 8 March 2013 (UTC) It seems clear that no consensus have been agreed to and hence other means of resolving the conflict need to be looked for. According to wikipedia, the resolution process has to start with Wikipedia:Requests for comments. Hence let me initiate it, although from the experience so far with this dispute, my personal feeling is that a resolution need to emerge on this dispute through Wikipedia:Formal mediation or Wikipedia:Arbitration or any administrator supervised resolution mechanism. So let me proceed to that end, but after leaving a quote from Wikipedia's core policy of Verifiability, not truth which says: "Wikipedia's core sourcing policy, Wikipedia:Verifiability, used to define the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia as "verifiability, not truth". "Verifiability" was used in this context to mean that material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. Editors may not add their own views to articles simply because they believe them to be correct, and may not remove sources' views from articles simply because they disagree with them". Wikipedia:Verifiability says: "In Wikipedia, verifiability means that people reading and editing the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source. Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors. Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it". To any reader of this talk page, it is obvious who is violating this core sourcing policy Wikipedia and who is abiding by it. Thanks, best Prathambhu (talk) 16:03, 10 March 2013 (UTC) Request for Comment The dispute is about the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. One set of editors cites media reports and claim that Kochi is the hub. The other set of editors claim that Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub. Prathambhu (talk) 16:38, 10 March 2013 (UTC) The sentence says that film industry returned and established in Kerala with major production facilities in Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram. This is 100% true as most of the production facilites are concentrated in these two places. There are many citations for the production facilities in Thiruvananthapuram also. So, there is no point in arguing on "centre of industry", as this is not an official status and is a superlative or peacock term. The sentence as it is now in the article is very much fine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.90.103.166 (talk) 01:40, 13 March 2013 (UTC) Myself, Prathambhu, an editor involved in this dispute. The above comment by IP 183.90.103.166 is his/her own belief. There are no reports from reliable sources supporting that. Wikipedia's core sourcing policy Wikipedia:Verifiability says: "In Wikipedia, verifiability means that people reading and editing the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source. Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors. Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it" The problems with existing version of Wikipedia Malayalam cinema page is that it is FALSE and NOT VERIFIABLE too More than 20 media reports from leading independent English & Malayalam newspapers of India like The Hindu, Malayala Manorama, Mathrubhumi, Times of India, Passline Business Magazine, New Indian Express, Deccan Chronicle, Deshabhimani etc. all claim that Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. Some of these reports are listed below. The Hindu report "Chithranjali opens studio in Kochi" Malayala Manorama report "Kamal in Kochi" Times of India report "Kochi takes centrestage in Mollywood" Passline Business Magazine report "Mollywood comes to Kochi" The Hindu report "Filmmaker's hotspot" Post Production Buyer's guide "Megamedia Films launches post-production facility in Kochi" Malayala Manorama report "Shooting spree in Kochi" Mathrubhumi report "Location Kochi" New Indian Express report "Kochi sizziling on screen" Times of India report "Kochiites join hands for their dream Metro" The Hindu report "Mollywood comes home to Kochi" Deshabhimani report "No cinema without Kochi" More reports can be found from the earlier versions of Malayalam cinema page and Malayalam cinema talk page. So the version existed on Feb 17, 2013 is the one in consonance with Wikipedia core sourcing policy. Editors including IPs numbered 183.90.103.XXX had edited and removed the views of the sources from Wikipedia Malayalam cinema article. Thus they have violated Wikipedia's core policy Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth which says: "Editors may not add their own views to articles simply because they believe them to be correct, and may not remove sources' views from articles simply because they disagree with them" Probably more serious is the fact that, here the editors including IPs numbered 183.90.103.XXX edited out these sources themselves from articles by removing citations. Prathambhu (talk) 17:51, 13 March 2013 (UTC) I am an independent editor coming in in response to the RFC. Googling I find the following did-you-know from The Times of India: [2] Initially, the Malayalam film industry was based in Thiruvananthapuram. Later, they shifted to Chennai which was then the capital of the Southern film industry.In the 2000s, they returned to Kerela and established themselves in Kochi with a number of studios and production facilities. Thus it would appear Thiruvananthapuram, then Chennai, then Kochi has been the "hub". The statement that Kochi "is" the hub would appear correct. Wwwhatsup (talk) 15:40, 15 March 2013 (UTC) The version shown in Times of India was the exact replica that was in this page before some months. The first sentence is still in the lead of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.164.10 (talk) 03:54, 18 March 2013 (UTC) The Times of India report is not a verbatim copy of any wiki page, so it is not clear whether it is a case of plagiarism. Times of India is one of India's leading news media and what is said in this report is in agreement with what Times of India and all other media had reported earlier (see the reports in the links above). (However one cannot dismiss the suspicion categorically. Myself had unearthed such a plagiarism committed by many websites from wikipedia Kochi page). See an earlier discussion in Kochi talk (Click) page Important thing is that, the present dispute does not require any new media report to verify the facts. Already more than 20 news media reports have been cited here and in the talk page above. All of them unambiguously state that "Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry". In fact, some editors (including IPs numbering 192.193.XXX.10 and 183.90.103.XXX) had inserted their personal view that "Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub" in the existing version of Malayalam cinema page (please see edit history). This view is not only FALSE but also against Wikipedia's sourcing policy Wikipedia:Verifiability and its core policy Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. Not a single published information from reliable sources agrees with this view. The only verifiable version is the version that existed on Feb 17, 2013. This is the truth, as shown by an overwhelming number of news reports. Prathambhu (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC) It is only the POV pushing of Prathambhu. He is rewriting essays after essays every time, to push his POV. The sentence says that there are production facilities in Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram; which can be verified with many citations. There are citations to prove that production facilities exists in both cities. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THE EXISTING VERSION of the article. 192.193.160.10 (talk) 06:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC) The above statement by IP number 192.193.160.10 is intentionally false. As can be checked from the article Malayalam cinema, the existing version has no citations. Till date, not a single citation of published information from any reliable source has been given here in support of the existing version. The existing version is FALSE and UNVERIFIABLE. In the above, I had given 12 citations of published information from reliable sources, all stating "Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry" Adding another report below. Malayala Manorama report "Chitranjali now at Kakkanad". (This report dated March 2010 quotes KSFDC Chairman "The hub of Malayalam cinema industry is now in Kochi. Taking into account the convenience of film industry personnel, KSFDC opened Chitranjali post production studio at Kakkanad. A shooting floor and outdoor unit will be added to it soon".) One more report about same news The New Indian Express report "Chithranjali unit coming to city" In this request for comments alone, I have given 14 news report citations supporting the claim that "Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry". Prathambhu (talk) 16:37, 19 March 2013 (UTC) This news item from page 31, Dhanam business magazine April 15 2010 issue. "മലയാള സിനിമയെന്നാല്‍ ഒരു നാള്‍ അത്‌ കോടമ്പാക്കമായിരുന്നു. സിനിമാമോഹവുമായി കോടമ്പാക്കത്ത്‌ തമ്പടിച്ചവര്‍ ഏറെ. പ്രശസ്‌തി നേടിയ താരങ്ങള്‍ സ്ഥിരതാമസത്തിന്‌ ഒരുകാലത്ത്‌ തെരഞ്ഞെടുത്ത്‌ ചെന്നൈ നഗരമായിരുന്നു. മമ്മൂട്ടിയും മോഹന്‍ലാലും ജയറാമുമെല്ലാം വളര്‍ച്ചയുടെ ഘട്ടങ്ങളില്‍ ചെന്നൈ നിവാസികളായി. എന്നാല്‍ ഇന്ന്‌ നോക്കൂ. പനമ്പിള്ളി നഗറില്‍ മമ്മൂട്ടിയും തേവരയില്‍ മോഹന്‍ലാലും തൃപ്പൂണിത്തുറയില്‍ ജയറാമും വീടുകള്‍ പണിത്‌ വേരുകള്‍ ഈ നഗരത്തിലേക്ക്‌ ആഴ്‌ത്തുന്നു. പലയിടത്തും വീടുകളുണ്ടെങ്കിലും കൂടുതല്‍ സമയം അവര്‍ ചെലവിടുന്നത്‌ കൊച്ചിയില്‍ തന്നെ. കാസര്‍കോഡ്‌കാരിയായ കാവ്യാമാധവനും കണ്ണൂര്‍കാരിയായ സംവൃതാ സുനിലും ഇപ്പോള്‍ കൊച്ചിക്കാര്‍ കൂടിയാണ്‌. ആലുവക്കാരനായ ദിലീപ്‌ കൂടുതല്‍ സ്‌നേഹിക്കുന്നത്‌ കൊച്ചിയെ ആണ്‌, ചെന്നൈ നഗരത്തെയല്ല. പൃഥ്വിരാജ്‌ തിരുവനന്തപുരത്ത്‌ വീട്‌ വെച്ചെങ്കിലും കൊച്ചിയില്‍ അപ്പാര്‍ട്ട്‌മെന്റ്‌ സ്വന്തമാക്കിയിട്ടുണ്ട്‌. ഇന്ദ്രജിത്ത്‌, ജയസൂര്യ, ബാല, ബിന്ദു പണിക്കര്‍, സിദ്ദിഖ്‌, ലാല്‍, മുകേഷ്‌ എന്നു തുടങ്ങി മലയാള സിനിമാലോകത്ത്‌ നിറഞ്ഞു നില്‍ക്കുന്ന 90 ശതമാനം പേരും കൊച്ചിയില്‍ ആഡംബര വില്ല അല്ലെങ്കില്‍ ആഡംബര അപ്പാര്‍ട്ട്‌മെന്റ്‌ സ്വന്തമാക്കി കൊച്ചിയെ ജീവിതത്തിന്റെ ഭാഗമാക്കിയിരിക്കുന്നു. ഫിലിം സ്റ്റുഡിയോകളും ഷൂട്ടിംഗ്‌ ആക്‌റ്റിവിറ്റികളും ഫിലിം യൂണിറ്റുകളും കൊച്ചി കേന്ദ്രീകരിച്ചതോടെയാണ്‌ സിനിമാതാരങ്ങള്‍ ചെന്നൈ നഗരത്തെയും തിരുവനന്തപുരത്തെയും വിട്ട്‌ കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ എത്തിയത്‌. മോഹന്‍ലാലിന്റെ ഫിലിം സ്റ്റുഡിയോയും സംവിധായകന്‍ ലാല്‍ ഒരുക്കിയിരിക്കുന്ന സിനിമാസംബന്ധിയായ ജോലികള്‍ക്കുള്ള അടിസ്ഥാനസൗകര്യങ്ങളും സിനിമാ ജോലികള്‍ കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ പറിച്ചുനടാന്‍ ഇടയാക്കി. ഒപ്പം ടെലിവിഷന്‍ സീരിയലുകളുടെ ഷൂട്ടിംഗുകളും അതിന്റെ അനുബന്ധ ജോലികളും തിരുവനന്തപുരത്തു നിന്ന്‌ കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ ചേക്കേറി തുടങ്ങി. അതോടെ സീരിയല്‍ രംഗത്തുളളവരും കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ എത്തിത്തുടങ്ങി. സൂര്യ ടിവിയുടെ സ്റ്റുഡിയോ തിരുവനന്തപുരത്തുനിന്ന്‌ കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ വരുന്നതോടെ ഈ രംഗത്തുനിന്നുള്ള കൂടുതല്‍ പേര്‍ കൊച്ചിയിലേക്ക്‌ താമസം മാറ്റാന്‍ സാധ്യതയുണ്ട്‌." Translation : Once film studios, shooting acitivites and film units focussed in kochi cinestars left Chennai and Thiruvananthapuram and moved to Kochi. It says also that Mohanlal's film studio and Lal's studio have helped to shift film industry to Kochi. I am having copy of the article. I'm not able to upload it. Anyone can read it from ezinemart.com. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 19:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC) Studios such as Chitranjali , Merryland etc and Mohanlal's vismaya max and animation studios are headquartered in Thiruvananthapuram. How can we say that Kochi is the hub. Kochi is also a hub, no one can claim that malayalam cinema is centered in Kochi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.228.36 (talk) 20:40, 23 March 2013 (UTC) The above comment is POV of IP 69.47.228.36. It is not a Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. No reliable source support it. It is not verifiable as required by Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. Reliable sources contradict the POV of IP 69.47.228.36. Many reports cited above clearly states that "Malayalam cinema industry has shifted to Kochi from its earlier bases in Chennai and Thiruvananthapuram". The studios mentioned by IP 69.47.228.36 have no major role in today's Malayalam cinema industry, according to the cited reports. State of Chitranjali today KSFDC's Chitranjali is a dead unit for long. See report from The Hindu. KSFDC is loss making, see the list of loss making public sector units in Kerala. Chairman of Chitranjali (KSFDC) says Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry because of which Chitranjali opened studio in Kochi. See report from Malayala Manorama . Similarly, Mohanlal himself opened Vismaya Max studio in Kochi in spite of the one he had in Thiruvananthapuram. See report Later he started his production and distribution firm Max Lab Entertainments also in Kochi. Studios like Lal media, Backwater Entertainment and Mega media are handling most of the works in Malayalam cinema today See report from The Hindu. These are all located in Kochi. All the reliable sources state that Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. Prathambhu (talk) 19:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC) Prathambu, check chitranjali website and see their work. Mohanlal's vismaya max is headquartered in Trivandrum. Merryland studio is another private sector studio running well. Thus proved the point. Stop fighting and accept the facts. If you and your media friends tell lies 10 times, you may think that it is going to be a truth. Even though Kochi has just studio from Lal, we are not denying its involvement. Unsigned user is 69.47.228.36. I checkd edit history. He says all media are liars. Only he is truthful. classic case of wikipedia vandalism. Its good to stop discussing. Admin may deal with such guys. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 18:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC) The author of the above unsigned comment states that s/he wants wikipedia to display "Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub of Malayalam cinema" at any cost, even if it is against Wikipedia's policy. With that the above author has overruled wikipedia's policies Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. My humble belief is that, now the ball is in the administrator's court. For the sake of completion, let me also list out the information in Wikipedia that exposes the false claims made by the unsigned comment writer. 1) Merryland Studio is defunct in Malayalam cinema 34 years ago. Last Malayalam film it produced was in 1979. It produced a few TV serials later, that's it. 2) Govt funded documentary films are the only major work that Chitranjali in Thiruvananthapuram gets - see The Hindu report. As far as Malayalam cinema is concerned, it is a dead unit causing immense losses to KSFDC - see performance of public sector units in Kerala. In order to get some work from Malayalam cinema industry, Chitranjali had to open a studio in Kochi See report in 2010 from Malayala Manorama . It is not me, but KSFDC Chairman K. G. George who says it. 3) Mohanlal had recently opened Vismaya Max in Kochi. Most of the cinema related works are now carried out there. See reports - Dhanam business magazine April 15, 2010, Mohanlal sings for Bhramaram, Mohanlal's Sanskrit play. The claim "Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub of Malayalam cinema" contradicts information published in reliable sources. Inserting this anywhere in wikipedia is against wikipedia's sourcing policy and as such is an offence. Prathambhu (talk) 14:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC) Comment - Let's try this, instead: reword the paragraph to avoid denoting one city or another as the 'hub' of Malayam cinema. Since there are apparently lots of referential material denoting the importance and 'hub-ness' of both, focus on their commonality; they are both of vital importance. Posting one as more important than another (when there are references positing both as central) smells a bit like OR. Is there an overriding reason why we need to define which is the hub over the importance of both? The answer to that might be quite telling, as to the willingness of the involved parties to find common ground, or the burning need to have the article end up their way. Last thoughts: I've red through the material and I'd point out that the contributors here could make more of an effort to be polite to one another. I for one become far more resistant to listening to someone's opinion when they preface it by calling me a liar. Use some common sense, or an administrator will be more than happy to give you some time off to think about how to use it. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:32, 28 March 2013 (UTC) Thanks Jack Sebastian, for stating your opinion. I completely agree with this. The sentence could be rewritten as "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala with a major chunk of locations, studios, production and post-production facilities in Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi." This is giving a Neutral view without adding adjectives or emphasising on any city. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 10:08, 28 March 2013 (UTC) Agreed Aarem and Jack. In fact the text written by Aarem was approved by all neutral members before in the discussions, if you refer back in the talk page. 69.47.228.36 (talk) 01:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC) Sorry about the delay in reply. In the "consensus" proposed above by Jack Sebastian there are claims like "apparently lots of referential material denoting the importance and 'hub-ness' of both" and "when there are references positing both as central". Can Jack Sebastian please point out those references that claim "hub-ness" of Thiruvananthapuram ? (Please note : Wikipedia core policy Wikipedia:Verifiability accepts only information published in reliable sources which can be reputed news organizations or research publications) Below I give about 15 references from reliable sources which are reputed news organizations all reporting that Kochi is the hub. The Hindu report "Chithranjali opens studio in Kochi" Malayala Manorama report "Kamal in Kochi" Times of India report "Kochi takes centrestage in Mollywood" Passline Business Magazine report "Mollywood comes to Kochi" The Hindu report "Filmmaker's hotspot" Post Production Buyer's guide "Megamedia Films launches post-production facility in Kochi" Malayala Manorama report "Shooting spree in Kochi" Mathrubhumi report "Location Kochi" New Indian Express report "Kochi sizziling on screen" Times of India report "Kochiites join hands for their dream Metro" The Hindu report "Mollywood comes home to Kochi" Deshabhimani report "No cinema without Kochi" Malayala Manorama report "Chitranjali now at Kakkanad" The New Indian Express report "Chithranjali unit coming to city" "Kochi is State’s broadcast capital too" Including Thiruvananthapuram as a hub of Malayalam cinema industry requires either sufficient amount of published information from reliable sources supporting that view or a change in wikipedia core sourcing policy Wikipedia:Verifiability. If the above suggestion is not agreeable, my proposal is to take this issue to administrators through a dispute resolution mechanism. Please let me clarify again I will not be a party to any consensus against Wikipedia:Verifiability or any other wikipedia policies. Sincerely, Prathambhu (talk) 19:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Moderated discussion

I am prepared to conduct a moderated discussion on the location of the Malayalam film industry. I have closed the above discussions, so we can start fresh. The intention is to allow interested parties to present their evidence and reasoning for how information on the location should be presented in the article, with the aim that agreement is reached between interested parties. It is not my intention that I should make a ruling unless one or more parties does not respond in a reasonable manner - such as not accepting good evidence or a consensus of opinion. To start, each interested party should present their argument for how information on the location should be presented in the article. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 22:08, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Profusely thank you for this initiative.

It feels good to let the information published in reputed news organizations of India in last 7 years speak for itself. Many of the reports below are in English which can be accessed by clicking the links. A significant number of reports are in Malayalam too which I translate, cross verification of my translation is welcome in case dispute arises. I also welcome any independent verification of reliability of sources given below, as per Wikipedia's established policies.

1. The Hindu report (2006) "Filmmaker's hotspot"
2. The Hindu report (2010) "Chithranjali opens studio in Kochi"
3. New Indian Express (2010) report "Chithranjali unit coming to city"
4. Malayala Manorama report (2010) "Chitranjali now at Kakkanad" Translation of 1st sentence, para 2 : "As the hub of cinema industry is now centred in Kochi, we have decided to open Chitranjali studio in Kakkanad, said KSFDC Chairman K. G. George" Translation of 3rd sentence para 1: "The Kochi studio has state-of-the-art editing and sound recording facilities, said KSFDC Managing director N. Ayyappan".
5. Post Production Buyer's guide report (2010) "Megamedia Films launches post-production facility in Kochi"
6. The Hindu Business Line report (2010) "Megamedia opens digital feature film lab in Kochi"
7. Dhanam (Business Magazine) April 15, 2010 "Why celebrities choose Kochi for residence" (Wikipedia filters out 4shared link to the pdf file of this report. I could send it for your perusal, if there is demand.) Translation of first 9 paras : Kochi has become a major film city. 90% of film personalities have settled in Kochi. This was after major studios, film units and shooting activities shifted to Kochi from their earlier bases at Chennai and Thiruvananthapuram. Mohanlal's movie studio and director Lal's studio where among some of the important ones that were established in Kochi recenly.
8. Passline Business Magazine report (2011) "Mollywood comes to Kochi"
9. Deshabhimani report (2011) "No cinema without Kochi" Translation first 2 lines of para 4: "The position of Kodambakkam in cinema industry is now held by Kochi in Kerala. A big majority of cinema personalities have chosen Kochi as their residence. Poojas, film shootings, celebrations, multiplexes, post production labs and studios, information broadcast and marketing have all turned Kochi into cinema's own city".
10. Malayala Manorama report (2012) Malayala Manorama report "Kamal in Kochi" Translation of 3rd sentence para 1: When the Malayalam cinema which was once based in Thiruvananthapuram and Kodambakkam shifted to Ernakulam director Kamal (director) also started thinking on the lines. (The article appeared in May 2012 is about recent relocation of famous Malayalam cinema director Kamal to Kochi).
11. Times of India report (2012) "Kochi takes centrestage in Mollywood"
12. Malayala Manorama report (2012) "Shooting spree in Kochi" Translation of last sentence in para 1: "Although Kochi had been the hub of Malayalam cinema and cinema persons for a while now, it is the first time shooting and post production works of so many films are happening simultaneously in Kochi".
13. Mathrubhumi report (2012) "Location Kochi" Translation of para 1: "When Malayalam cinema moved out from Kodambakkam, Kochi woke up as the hub of production and the favourite home of Cine stars".
14. New Indian Express report (2012) "Kochi sizziling on screen"
15. Times of India report (2012) "Kochiites join hands for their dream Metro"
16. The Hindu report (2013) "The airport that gifted Kochi its wings"
17. The Hindu report (2013) "Kochi is State’s broadcast capital too"
18. The Hindu report (2013) "Mollywood comes home to Kochi" gives some of the detailed statistics of production and post-production works in Malayalam cinema happening in Kochi.

Almost all of the 17 reports above are from reputed news organizations that can be checked by clicking on their names. Some of those are world's most widely read newspapers whose credentials can never be doubted. Hence all the above reports are from reliable sources as per Wikipedia policy.

All of the reports go on to state that Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. Some of them also report that cinema industry which was earlier based at Kodambakkam and Thiruvananthapuram have shifted now to Kochi.

The 17 listed above are some of the reports for which links are active presently. If demand arise, I hope to add more to the above list. There are also numerous reports for which links are either only partially available (during certain hours) or unavailable. However texts of some of those reports are still available on web.

Thanks, Sincerely Prathambhu (talk) 20:43, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

That's fine for now. You have provided a series of sources which say something like Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema industry. My understanding of the dispute is that there are also sources (or a reasoned argument) which say that the hub is elsewhere. So I'll wait now for those sources (or the rationale) to be provided. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 23:32, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Silktork for initiating the discussion. This dispute is about claiming one location as hub for malayalam cinema. Even though I agree that Kochi has production units, I have to say that Trivandrum also has several production units. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinfra_Film_and_Video_Park has mention about film park which houses Vismaya max studio headquarters, Prasad Labs, animation studios etc. In addition Trivandrum also has Merryland studio and Chitranjali film studios. Unfortunately Merryland studio does not have a website, but they are still active( for eg, studio of Run Baby Run -2012 movie was Merryland,TVM). There by, current text on the wiki page appears to be more accurate.Itsmehomer (talk) 06:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)— Itsmehomer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

The Kinfra Film and Video Park looks interesting. Unfortunately I could only open one of the sources cited in the Wikipedia article - this one, which says that "Thiruvananthapuram will soon turn into an entertainment hub of the country". Do you have any other sources? SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 15:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Extended content

This is a good initiative. However, I doubt how much fruitful this will be as User:Prathambhu has declined many of the earlier discussions and went against the consensus. He has received several warnings before for strong POV pushing for Kochi and constant edit wars: (From an admin and third party who warned Prathambhu before for the Kochi POV : After looking this over, Prathambhu is clearly editing in a tendentious manner that creates a strong POV in favor of Kochi. Since we are not here to create travel brochures, this is inappropriate editing.)

KINFRA is a government under taking. I am providing the url of the establishment here:Kerala Industrial Infrastructure Development Corporation. It says that Trivandrum is the centre of various film activities. Kinfra houses many many studios and post production centres. If a government establishment (which houses many many film related companies and only animation SEZ in the state) says so, how can we be sure that all film activities are centred at only Kochi ?

Some interesting links : [3], [4], [5], [6]. --Samaleks (talk) 16:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, I'll take a look at them. I've hatted some comments as this is a moderated discussion on content, so I will be archiving any personal comments. If after looking into the content concerns, I become aware of conduct issues which are inhibiting progress of the article, I will deal with them at that point. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 22:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

OK. I looked at the links. The KINFRA website is the strongest as it says: "Thiruvananthapuram is the centre of various organised film activities and also houses several reputed organisations like Kerala State Film Development Corporation, Kerala State Chalachitra Academy, Chitranjali Studio etc." The other links are support for film activities taking place. At the moment, as an outsider, what all the sources provided so far appear to be saying is that Kochi is regarded by the media as the hub of Malayalam cinema industry, and that a government initiative, KINFRA, aimed at assisting the film industry in Kerala, was set up in 2012 in Thiruvananthapuram, and is making progress. Would that be a fair assessment? SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 22:55, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks SilkTork, Website of Chitranjali studio established in 1980 at Trivandrum is http://www.ksfdc.in/chitranjalistudio.htm

If you look at neutrally, there are 2 film hubs in Kerala with number of production facilities, Trivandrum and Kochi. Eventhough Kinfra park was established in 2010, Merryland and Chitranjali studios were there in Trivandrum for quite sometime. Since Trivandrum was an established hub (Even before 1990) and Kochi is the additionally new hub recently, we may not find 'new' hub news for Trivandrum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.228.36 (talk) 03:22, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Most of the links provided in favour of the statement 'Kochi is the centre of film industry' is from media articles published in Kochi city page. The city articles cater to the local population in the city and would be obviously having glitters all around. Almost all these articles uses much superlative and peacock terms. Another point is that none of the provided citations states that Kochi is the ONLY hub/centre of the industry.

Malayalam Cinema is not centered ONLY in Kochi. Most of the production facilities are in Trivandrum. There is no studios with large campus for outdoor shooting facility in Kochi. If so, please provide citations.

60% of the films that are now released in Malayalam is being shot in Kochi and suburbs. But that alone does not make it to be called the centre of industry. If in that case, before 10 years, 60% of the films were shot in villages of Ottapalam and Pollachi. Can it be then declared as the centre of the industry? And location preferences always change.

The Cinema Capital - This media url claims that Trivandrum is the Cinema Capital. I would consider this also as a weasel word in an article in the local city page. This is in similar lines with the urls provided in favour of Kochi. So, I am relying on sources without any of these weasel terms.

Trivandrum is having the maximum number of studio facilities and production facilities. This includes:

• Chithranjali Studio Complex - (est.1980) with and indoor studio of around 12,000 sq.ft. (second largest indoor in Asia) with sound proof floor, and with an Outdoor campus of 70 acres. Pre built Out door of Police station, Hospital, Class room, Office rooms, Village houses, Temple, etc are available. Chitranjali studio has a single window system to obtain permission from the Government Departments and agencies for various locations for shooting. It has recording studios, preview theatre, four outdoor film units, reel printing facilities.[7]

There is not even a single studio to match this in Kochi.

• Prasad Studios and Colour Labs - The leading colour labs in South India has its facilities in Trivandrum. This is the only processing lab in Kerala. They are the pioneer in Digital processing and negative processing in South India. They are the leading colour lab in Graphics (VFX) and not only Malayalam films are processed in their facility in Trivandrum.[8]

• Merryland Studio - (est.1951) Possess a big outdoor campus facility of 36 acres. Established in 1951, this was the second film production studio in Malayalam film industry. Now it is mostly used for mega serials.[9]

• Accel Animation Studios – More known for its motion capture facilities and 3D graphics. One news article claims that it is the only such facility in India.[10]

• Vismayas Max – (est.2006) First DTS studio in Kerala. It has both animation facilities and regular film editing facilities. The sound recording unit of Vismaya is having a branch at Kochi too.

• Toonz Animation – Subsidiary of Singapore based Toonz company. Major works include Indian releases like Tenali Raman, Hanuman, etc and international releases like XMen and Wolverine, Gatturro etc.[11]

I am not going to list down each and every similiar facilities in Trivandrum, as it would be overwhelming. I believe the above citations are enough to prove that Trivandrum is having a good number of unique post production facilities in the state.

The address of actors published in the official website of AMMA(Association of Malayalam Movie Artistes), majority are given the address at Trivandrum as their permanent address.(addresses link) Even this association (AMMA) is headquartered in Thycaud, Trivandrum and not in Kochi.

The first Malayalam film was produced and screened in Trivandrum. The first film studio, The Travancore National Pictures, was established in Trivandrum. For details, please see Vigathakumaran and J. C. Daniel.

There are many companies in Kinfra Film and Video Park with full SEZ facilities for animation and gaming. There are hundreds of small studios in the city to support all the "serial" shooting and production for various TV channels. The citations can be fetched from the all internal links provided above. Thus, it is evident that Trivandrum has much more production facilities than any other city in Kerala.

The International Film Festival of Kerala is held in Trivandrum. Government organizations like Kerala State Film Development Corporation, Kerala State Chalachitra Academy, and non-gov organizations like Soorya etc are headquartered in Trivandrum.

I will now provide some citations from official government websites to check an impartial view on the facts.

1. Public Relation Department - States that In the 70s efforts were to create conditions conducive to the survival of artistic cinema in Kerala. A group of film enthusiasts had already formed a film society in Trivandrum, the first of its kind in the State. In the 70s, infrastructure facilities for film making in the state were augmented with the establishment of the state sponsored Chitranjali Studios. Aided by the subsidy scheme of the government and the inflow of 'gulf money' into film making, more films began to be made in Kerala. --> This is not talking about film industy concentrating only on Kochi, but stating that the industry returned to Kerala state.
2. Thiruvananthapuram Handbook from Department of Information and Public Relation - Page number 38 : Kerala State Film Development Corporation (KSFDC) has succeeded in uprooting the Malayalam film industry from Kodambakkam in Chennai and planting it here (Thiruvananthapuram). --> The word "here" implies Trivandrum, as this handbook is about Trivandrum.
3. Official site of the Thiruvananthapuram Corporation : Section- Film Industry - It states that Trivandrum is an important name in Malayalam film industry always. It also states that along with the post production facilities, establishments like C-DIT, Centre of Films, National Film Archive of India, National Film Development Corporation of India, Federation Offices of Film Societies, etc have made Trivandrum a 'FILM CITY'.

• Here is another link which states Trivandrum is the centre of the malayalam film industry.[12] It is also stated that the city handles more than half of the post production works today.

So in short, the movie industry in Kerala is not centred only in one location. Major facilities are in Trivandrum followed by Kochi. So to be impartial, no one can say that Malayalam movie industry is only centered in Kochi. Infact, it is scattered across Kerala with more presence in Trivandrum and Kochi.

The current statement is the article is as follows : " Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala with a major chunk of locations, studios, production and post-production facilities in Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi." This is giving a Neutral view without adding adjectives or emphasising on any city. More over, there is no official status like "centre of film industry". Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 08:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Those links are useful, and do provide a balance. It does seem reasonable to an outside observer to conclude that there are filming facilities in both cities, and that both have had claims made of them that they are central to the filming industry. I understand the move toward using neutral language. The problem with that in this situation is that people may be arriving at the article after reading that XXX is the centre/hub of the Malayalam movie industry, and then being confused when that is not mentioned, and so may be tempted to add such information. In such circumstances it is acceptable to make mention of such claims in order to help clarify matters for the reader, and to prevent future arguments. What appears to be in dispute here is that there are reliable sources which make claims that Kerala is the hub of the Malayalam movie industry, but these are being ignored in order to strive for a Wikipedia generated neutral summary. It is difficult in such circumstances, but as reliable sources do say Kerala is the hub, it may be that those statements should be used, though balanced by the other statements, so the reader is provided with ALL the facts, and is allowed to draw their own conclusion, rather than one arrived at on their behalf by Wikipedia editors.

Put simply, the [that there are] claims that Kerala is the hub of the Malayalam movie industry is a fact. As [that there] are the claims for Trivandrum. Of course, the word "claims" should not be used, but adding a statement along the lines that "Media sources report that Kerala is the hub of the Malayalam movie industry, while sources reporting on the government sponsored Kinfra Film and Video Park indicate that Trivandrum is the centre of Malayalam film industry." If there is a source which comments on the simultaneous claims, that would be very useful, but without such a source then readers would need to draw their own conclusions. I think most would likely draw the same conclusions, that the claims are a mixture of local pride and local marketing, and that the film industry is active in both places, with neither being the official hub. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 10:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

• Hi SilkTork

0.

In all of the write-ups above how many links refer to information published in reliable sources as per wikipedia policy ?

I find them THREE in number.

The remaining links given are to websites of commercial organisations in public and private sector like KINFRA, KSFDC, Prasad Studios etc and local body of Corporation of Thiruvananthapuram. Most funny link is this : A website floated for championing Thiruvananthapuram's development. That has to be accepted as wikipedia reference ?

What each of the above website is meant to advertise and promote themselves. Self-promotion is never accepted as a reliable sources by wikipedia as I understand from here : Self-published sources

Has wikipedia policy been changed to allow their use ?

If yes, then could I use the this website of a post production studio in Kochi Cochin Media City (CMC) to claim that Cochin is the Communication hub for all of South Asia, in wikipedia ?

Its website says "Cochin indisputably, packs everything that is required to be South Asia’s communication hub for the future, enabling very simplified and highly cost-effective service. And CMC is strategically placed to make the best of it".

Wikipedia:Verifiability says NO !

There are plenty of such in Kochi, as Kochi is actually the hub of Malayalam cinema. CMC, Lal Media, Aries creations, Vismaya Max, Megamedia entertainments, Backwater entertainment are only a few among them.

In all of my comments above I assiduously avoided giving website of commercial organizations as evidences in accordance with Wikipedia:Verifiability.

Still if wikipedia policies on Wikipedia:Verifiability have changed, then I certainly like to. After all, this is what users like User:Aarem, User:Samaleks or IP number 69.47.228.36 are demanding !

Henceforth let me limit the discussion only to those THREE reports from sources that are reliable sources.

1.

This news report is FIRST. The report is primarily about a gaming animation SEZ allotted to the park. The news dated Feb 17, 2012 says "Thiruvananthapuram to turn into an entertainment hub. It has the potential to transform itself into a world-class entertainment production hub".

Report says in future the park could become the hub of entertainment, which presently it is not. If such a thing happen in future, it will come in media, then we can claim that Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub. Otherwise there will be a lot of claimants using such "future trading" strategies. Clearly, as on March 2013 it has still is not a hub.

2.

The SECOND one is is this report dated 2007.

In fact, I completely agree with the report. The report talks about the past association of Cinema with Thiruvananthapuram. It is represented in the wiki article on Malayalam cinema already. This can be given as a citation there. But it says nothing about present association of Thiruvananthapuram with Malayalam cinema.

3.

This write up is the THIRD. This again talks about association of Thiruvananthapuram based studio Chitranjali in 1970s with Malayalam cinema. Again, I agree with it. But this is what wiki page also says "the Malayalam film industry was based in Trivandrum". This write up claims nothing about the present relevance of Thiruvananthapuram for Malayalam cinema.

4.

Present situation :

i) Even as on date March 4, 2013, one of India's most widely read and credible newspaper The Hindu in its report Mollywood comes home to Kochi says "Almost 90 per cent of work related to Malayalam cinema today happens in Kochi. Modern recording and dubbing studios dot the landscape of Kochi, handling almost three-fourth of the pre- and post-production work."

The claim by User:Aarem that this was only a local edition news is false. Here is the link to the news available as a Kerala news Mollywood comes to Kochi under the header National > Kerala. Here is the same news under city news header Mollywood comes to Kochi under the header Cities > Kochi.

If User:Aarem or friends want to challenge the content of the news they could take it up with the publisher. Instead he and friends are thrusting "original research" with their POV into wikipedia against Wikipedia:Verifiability.

ii) Here is another recent media reports on hub of Malayalam cinema : Malayala Manorama report (2012) Malayala Manorama report "Kamal in Kochi"'. "When the Malayalam cinema which was once based in Thiruvananthapuram and Kodambakkam shifted to Ernakulam director Kamal (director) also started thinking on the lines. (The article appeared in May 2012 is about recent relocation of famous Malayalam cinema director Kamal to Kochi)".

iii) Here is a report from The Hindu in the year 2007 about the recent situation about of the Chitranjali studio mentioned in PRD article article.

The report says :

"Over the years, the studio became a dead unit as a result of the failure to upgrade the infrastructure".

iv) You can also check the present situation of KSFDC under which comes Chitranjali studio. This wiki article and references therein shows that KSFDC is a loss making public sector unit of Kerala.

Chitranjali studio now survives on Government documentaries. Another The Hindu report from same year confirms this.

v) The present situation is best elicited by the Chairman of KSFDC and renowned Malayalam film director K. G. George as reported in this Malayala Manorama news dated 2010 "Chitranjali now at Kakkanad".

The report quotes Chairman of KSFDC Mr.K. G. George saying "As the hub of cinema industry is now centred in Kochi, KSFDC have decided to open Chitranjali studio in Kakkanad, said KSFDC Chairman K. G. George".

5.

On claims about some studios :

i) Merryland Studio studio is defunct for 34 years. That last movie it produced is 1979. It is claimed that they produce serials. The claim made by a User:Itsmehomer of a recent movie Run Baby Run (2012 film) being made by this studio is plain FALSE. It is by Galaxy Films of Kochi.

ii) Vismaya Max in Thiruvananthapuram is an animation studio. Vismaya Max post production and recording works related to Malayalam cinema are done in its Kochi facilty as indicated by reports like these : Mohanlal's Sanskrit Album, Mohanlal Sings for Blessy's Bhramaram.

iii)Malayalam cinema article is about feature films in the language Malayalam. Neither documentaries nor serials not any animations are part of Wikipedia Malayalam cinema article. So the links about studios dealing with these are irrelevant to the discussion.

6.

I would like to bring to your notice as an administrator, possible ramifications of allowing such claims.

Many news reports clearly states Mumbai as the hub of Hindi cinema or Bollywood, Chennai for Tamil cinema, Hyderabad for Telugu cinema. See news report. There are news reports supporting all of them available in plenty. These claims exists in the respective wikipedia article. Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema is the report from available established news sources accepted by wikipedia as reliable sources. But around 5 people on wikipedia wants to insert "Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub of Malayalam cinema presently" - contradicting all existing media reports.

In future, can anyone come up with claims citing commercial websites claiming that their town is the hub of whole of Indian cinema and so on ?

Is it going to be allowed ?

7.

Kindly let me summarise.

i)All media reports unambiguously and explicitly state that "Kochi is the hub of Malayalam cinema presently".

ii)The above reports conduct interviews of the stakeholders of Malayalam cinema industry to state it.

iii)Not a single published information exists saying even that "Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub of Malayalam cinema presently".

iv)Actually, many reports like Malayala Manorama report "Kamal in Kochi" states that Thiruvananthapuram no longer a hub Malayalam cinema.

v)All the above sources are Self-published sources.

vi)Other links given by User:Itsmehomer, User:Aarem, IP number 69.47.228.36 and User:Samaleks comes under that category Self-published sources. Wikipedia prohibits from using such self published claims and exaggeration of an organization about themselves in its own websites as reliable sources.

8.

A Request to SilkTork:

Could you kindly let me know whether Wikipedia has given an waiver for anyone from following wikipedia policies on Wikipedia:Verifiability and reliable sources. If such a waiver is given for those who argue to include ""Thiruvananthapuram is also a hub of Malayalam cinema" then I must and shall certainly withdraw from raising this issue again.

Thank you, Sincerely,

Prathambhu (talk) 16:46, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I confess I haven't read through all of what you have written, but I feel I have the gist from your opening comments. And I agree that from the information given it would be difficult to make an assertion either way as to which place is the centre of the cinema industry. And it's not the place of the Wikipedia editor to strive to do that from collecting together the evidence and pointing the reader in a certain direction. What do we know from the sources? What can be presented to the reader which is factual, and which allows them to make up their own mind? SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 21:59, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I am not going into circles again. The point is Malayalam film industry is very much active in Trivandrum also, and for that reason we cannot say that Kochi is the only centre of the industry. The source provided (by me) were mostly from government departments which says Trivandrum is the centre of the industry. And government publications are supposed to be unbiased. Most importantly there is no OFFICIAL STATUS to be called as the "Centre". You said it rightly: "that the claims are a mixture of local pride and local marketing, and that the film industry is active in both places, with neither being the official hub". A neutral reader should not be supplied with biased wordings in wikipedia. Both Trivandrum and Kochi are cities in Kerala. So, it is better to state that the industry returned to Kerala from Chennai with film making facilities in Trivandrum and Kochi. Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 02:22, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear Prathambu, Merriland,TVM is still active and is still the studio unit for the movies (for example ,Run Baby run). I am attaching the movie title screenshot here. Its unfortunate that opinions are posted without verifying it. [13] Itsmehomer (talk) 03:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC) — Itsmehomer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I add a few stuffs to this discussion.

Most of the Trivandrum studios given as proof are already dead. Merryland, Chitranjali. I think this is already said. Merryland is reduced to just an outdoor unit, carrying lights and cranes. There are many outdoor units in Kerala doing albums and ads. that does not mean every nook and corner in Kerala are hub of cinima.

See a partial list of outdoor units in kerala

http://www.keralafind.com/categories/cinema/

So Tiruvalla and Irinjalakkuda all will become hubs of malayala cinema if outdoor units are counted.

Chitranjali failed to upgrade technology and lags far behind Kochi studios like Lal media or Megamedia or Aries. Because of this it died. See report from The Hindu

http://www.hindu.com/pp/2007/08/18/stories/2007081850490300.htm

Next thing, film processing is an old world business. In 2013, all of Malayala cinima is made in digital format. See this report from Mathrubhumi paper

http://www.mathrubhumi.com/extras/special/story.php?id=253267

Films are fully out now. Fuji and Kodak has already stopped film production.

http://petapixel.com/2012/09/15/sign-of-the-times-fujifilm-to-stop-making-film-for-the-cinema-industry/

So it is not even possible to get films. This is why Prasad color lab and film processing has no relevance today.

This one of the reasons why Trivandrum lost out - no new investment came to Trivandrum in feature film production. there are only some animation studios there, nothing to do with Malayala cinema.

See number of studios opened in kochi in just last 5 years. Megamedia, Vismaya Max, Maxlab entertainment, Backwater studio all with most advanced post production facilities. Major film training schools like CMC, Neo (Sibi Malayil), Ranjith's film school all came up in Kochi in last 5 years.

Another thing, all major actors and technical persons in cinema industry have moved to Kochi already. You can see comments made by film professionals in the links given below comments.

Actor Indrajith says “Every State has its own film cities, Tamil Nadu has Chennai, Andhra Pradesh Hyderabad, Maharashtra Mumbai. Likewise Kochi is becoming Kerala’s film city”,(Report below) (Passline Business Magazine)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3883/mwood.jpg

Please see, Indrajith shifted from Trivandrum to Kochi reason given is Kochi is the hub of cinima activities. So even Trivandrum based cinima profesionals are shifting to kochi. But there are not a single case saying other way.

Ranjith (director) says "Kochi is fast becoming the hub of Malayalam film industry. So we, as the representatives of the film world, want to see Kochi Metro rail becoming a reality," during a demonstration supporting Kochi metro rail. (Report Times of India below)

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-10-28/kochi/34779758_1_kochi-metro-rail-e-sreedharan-chain

Actor Kunchacko Boban] says "Most of the people connected with the Malayalam film industry, especially technicians, artists and directors, now live here", He admits that his entry into Kochi has made him enter the film industry too. (Report below)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3883/mwood.jpg

Actor Samvritha Sunil say "Most of the activities for Malayalam films presently take place in Kochi".(Report below)

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3883/mwood.jpg

Kamal (director) say "Malayala cinima shifted acivities to Kochi from Kodambakkam and Trivandrum and that made him shift to Kochi also".(Report below)Malayala Manorama

http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/malayalamContentView.do?contentId=11528395&tabId=20

K.G. George says "Malayala cinima hub has shifted to Kochi so we decided to open Chitranjali in Kochi".(Report below)Malayala Manorama

http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/localContentView.do?tabId=16&programId=1079897624&contentId=6859335&district=Cochin&BV_ID=@@@

They all say Kochi is the hub of Malayala cinima industry.

What capacity wikipedia users have to say that these actual malayala cinema professionals are wrong.

tomarrow a user can come and pose as an expert of malayala cinima after creating his own website and write anything he want. this is chaos. Wikipedia cannot decide what is correct and what is wrong. It can only use existing information from independent sources. Independent source in this case are media.

If Trivandrum is a hub why is that no single media is aware of it ?

Why is homepages of dead studios and business firms like kinfra the only proof ? Kinfra want to sell the business space they developed for film park. They might even write that they are global cinema hub, that is their business. How ads and promos can be proof of Trivandrum being hub ?

If I write that I am a big billionaire in my own website, it will be counted? On that basis can anyone add Sanjay among Billionaires of India in wikipedia ?

The users who wants to claim that Trivandrum is a hub of Malayala cinema, first try to get it published by an independent media. I bet no newspaper will agree to publish such a false statement today. These guys also know it thats why they edit wiki page which is possible to manipulate. Their claim will discredit wikipedia because its against so many media news. Admin please take necessary steps to stop this. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 10:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• Here is a poster of the movie Run Baby Run (2012 film).

Any one can check that the studio that produced the movie is Galaxy Films. If anyone could find any mention of Merryland Studio on this or any other poster of Run Baby Run (2012 film) please let me know. Prathambhu (talk) 18:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Looking for closure

OK. Evidence has been presented, and I think it's time now to start to close this discussion. It would help if people agree on a point before we move forward to the next. The first point to agree is:

• There are reliable sources (government based) asserting Trivandrum is the centre of the Malayalam film industry, and there are also reliable sources (media based) asserting Kochi is the centre of the Malayalam film industry.

If there is any part of that statement that people disagree with, please say so. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 08:52, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Admin,

Kinfra is a public sector undertaking owned by Govt of Kerala. They are a business firm. Plse see  : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sector_undertakings_in_Kerala

KSFDC is another public sector undertaking owned by Govt of Kerala directly related to film industry. Its Chairman K.G. George say "Malayala cinima hub has shifted to Kochi so we decided to open Chitranjali in Kochi". See Manorama news item (2010)

So govt organizations also do not agree on Trivandrum is a centre of Malayalam cinema. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 11:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks SilkTork, I agree with you that both places Trivandrum and Kochi are hubs of malayalam cinema. So the text by Aarem makes sense since it is mentioning importance of two cities. To ChroniclerSanjay: based on your statements, Looks like you are making a lot of false claims. Merriland and Chitranjali are still very much active. Even there is a huge film city (first of its kind in Kerala) proposed close to Chitranjali studio in Trivandrum by the former film minister of Kerala which is under planning.[14] 208.95.148.1 (talk) 14:24, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi SilkTork

At the outset please let me congratulate you in making such a discernible progress. The discussion has become more focussed after this initiative.

1) Indeed, Kinfra is a public sector company owned by Govt. of Kerala. As a commercial entity Kinfra wants to attract more occupants to the Film and Video park it has developed. In its website Kinfra has advertised it. If we accept Kinfra's claim in wikipedia that would amount to advertising Kinfra park on wikipedia. Is it correct to do as per wikipedia policy?

I still hold that Kinfra is a Self-published source and not a reliable source.

2) If you still insist that Kinfra is a reliable source, could this not be a more appropriate statement of your view:

There is a reliable source, Kinfra website, that asserts that Trivandrum is the centre of the Malayalam film industry and there are also reliable sources (media based) asserting Kochi is the centre of the Malayalam film industry.

3) The comment posted by an IP 208.95.148.1 is false. I have given evidence against the false claim on movie Run Baby Run (2012 film) already. Merryland Studio's last movie was in 1979. It is documented fact, they have never made a movie after that. From a comment above by User:ChroniclerSanjay, I could gather that Merryland may be doing low end activities like lending crane and light for shooting crew and so on. I have no way to verify this now, but that is an activity done by many small scale enterprises, most often not associated with cinema industry.

About proposal for film city, in view of this future proposal, IP 208.95.148.1 wants to start calling Trivandrum a hub right away! One year after that news, it is not known what happened to this proposal. (Let me know if there is any registered news organization by the name "yentha" in Kerala or India?) (Please note that : IP 208.95.148.1 was also involved in edit war.) Sincerely, Prathambhu (talk) 20:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

There is CNN IBN news on film city in Trivandrum [15]. I have given the screenshot of movie which shows Merriland , TVM which Prathambu originally claimed false that it is no more a film studio. I don't wanna go in loop for this discussion.

Dear SilkTork, Since you have seen the proofs and you know the city advertisements as well here. Please take a decision. I second Aarem's text to be put in. We respect your decision. Itsmehomer (talk) 04:47, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

It appears to me that there is agreement that there are reliable sources asserting both claims. So we can move on to the next point. It was raised in the above responses, that a) there are fewer sources for Trivandrum; b) the sources for Trivandrum are not reliable as they are WP:Primary; and c) the sources are biased.

Yes, there are fewer sources, so we don't need to get consensus on that. No, the Kinfra sources are not primary as regards this article - Kinfra would be a primary source for Kinfra, but not for opinions or views regarding cinema in Kerala. Are the opinions/views of the source biased? Possibly. Are the opinions/views in the media sources biased? Possibly. We have facts regarding facilities and filming in both cities. But when it comes to statements regarding which city is the centre of Malayalam cinema, that is going to be opinion, unless there are uncontested claims, and unless the sources can be assured to be unbiased. So, if there are to be claims included in the article that one or either or both cities are the centre of the film industry, they should be presented as opinions or assertions.

So, do people agree that if claims are be to included in the article they should be presented as assertions rather than fact? SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 08:39, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The citations from government sources are more reliable. The district handbook from the Public Relation Department states that Trivandrum is the centre of the industry. None of the government websites are telling that Kochi is the centre of the industry. Thanks, --Samaleks (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

SilkTork, None of the citations I provided falls in WP:PRIMARY. All the numbered references were taken from government websites. And I do not want to produce more number of references as I believe that facts cannot be decided based on counts. The provided citations are enough to prove that Trivandrum is a centre of film industry.

As you observed there are reliable sources (government based) asserting Trivandrum is the centre of the Malayalam film industry, and there are also reliable sources (media based) asserting Kochi is the centre of the Malayalam film industry.

So, can't we change the current statement(By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala with a major chunk of locations, studios, production and post-production facilities in Kochi and Trivandrum.) to :

"By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media reports claims that Kochi is the hub of the industry while government publications states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre of the industry." This ensures that claims are presented as assertions rather than facts. I stand for a WP:NPOV.

Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 15:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, we are working toward a statement such as you propose. Though it sometimes helps to get agreement on the points leading to such a statement so that the statement becomes acceptable to all. And I feel that such a statement in the article should avoid words such as "claims" - neutral words would be preferable, such as "mention" or "report" or "say" or "describe", etc.

We could see, though, if there would be agreement on a statement. How about something along the lines of: "Several media sources, such as [example](cite) and [example](cite) describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry, while the Kerala government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre.(cite)"

Looking back at what has been said, I feel this would address most people's concerns, would be informative, accurate and neutral, and should satisfy any reader coming to the article who had read somewhere claims that either city was the hub of the industry. If people can give broad agreement to such a statement, that would he helpful. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 15:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I support the statement : "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources, such as [example](cite) and [example](cite) describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry, while the Kerala government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre.(cite)". It is an indisputable fact that the film industry is based in Kerala as both these cities are part of Kerala. The dispute is over the city which can be settled using the above statement, I believe. JK (talk) 17:57, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

It is not only Kinfra, but the urls of Public relation department and Muncipal corporation also states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre. So, I suggest a small correction : "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources, such as [example](cite) and [example](cite) describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry, while the Kerala government publications(cite) and government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre.(cite)". Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 02:17, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

It will be a reliable only if published by somebody who has no proven bussiness interest or regional interest or other interests. Both Kinfra and Trivandrum corporation have busines or regional interest.

Corporation of Trivandrum have no jurisdiction outside Trivandrum. It has no right to claim things about Kerala, if it is not agreed by other independent sources. Also Tvm corporation website only claims that Trivandrum was a centre in the past. This statement is already there in wiki. Kinfra is business firm selling business parks. Its website is its advertisement. It is not a publication by independent source.

Why we discuss so much, why there are no links given as reference ? There r 18 working news links given as proof for Kochi as hub of malayala cinima. Nobody dispute reliablity of them. All those same medias are present in Trivandrum also, why they are not reporting trivandrum as centre of malayala cinima ?

Before adding it, plse show one independent working link claiming Trivandrum is the presently centre/hub of Malayala cinima

It will be a reliable only if published by somebody who has no business interests or other regional interests. thats why media or some research paper will be relaible.

But i dont get why is the media of Kerala nd India not aware of such a "hub" in Trivandrum ?

Why is malayala cinima proffessionals not aware of it ?

I also want to support one thing, any statement about any place must have citations that clearly say at present film activities are centred around that place. If that is not there then that website or report cannot be used as citation. I hope all of you will agree. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

SilkTork, With the references given, there is no single hub for malayalam cinema for sure. Two cities, Trivandrum and Kochi can be called as hubs. I agree with the statement: "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources, such as [example](cite) and [example](cite) describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry, while the Kerala government publications(cite) and government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre.(cite)"208.95.148.1 (talk) 20:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• Hi SilkTork

i) Let me express my strong reservations with promoting Kinfra through wikipedia, because it is a business entity. Also, website of an organization is transient in nature. It can be updated and may change tomorrow. So, as far as possible, we should use only published reports that cannot change with time.

ii) Still, what user JK suggests (with minor changes) could be accepted as a consensus, for now.

"By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry (cite), while the Kerala government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram as the centre".(cite)

iii) This link to Public Relations Department does not have any word about Thiruvananthapuram being a hub now. It speaks about cinema related activity in Thiruvananthapuram in 1970s/1980s. This cannot be used to claim Thiruvananthapuram's relevance today. But it could be a citation for the statement on Thiruvanthapuram being a base of Malayalam cinema in the past.

iv) Corporation of Thiruvanthapuram is a regional body and is not an unbiased source. This website of Corporation of Cochin (Kochi) and website of Kochi International Film Festival also has such claims about cinema. Claims of these bodies about pan-Kerala matters, like Cinema industry, cannot be used a a reliable source. These are outside the limits of their powers.

One more info : Prasad Studio's digital cinema section has opened their centre in Kochi very recently See link. Prathambhu (talk) 17:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Closing

It appears that we have consensus enough to proceed, and close this moderated discussion. ChroniclerSanjay still has reservations; however, others agree to use wording something like "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry (cite), while the Kerala government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram as the centre".(cite) I will now close this discussion, and someone may implement the wording. I will be available if there is a problem implementing that wording, so please let me know on my talkpage. For other issues arising on this article, please seek assistance from the appropriate venue, which may be found at Category:Wikipedia noticeboards or Category:Wikipedia dispute resolution. I am now taking this off my watchlist. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 20:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the intervention. Much appreciated. Thanks, --Samaleks (talk) 07:16, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

• Hi SilkTork

Samaleks changed the consensus statement unilaterally. I request to give the consensus statement by you.

The consensus arrived is unilaterally broken by Samaleks when he changed the consensus statement you suggested and inserted new claims. He also inserted citation to a private website in violation to all sourcing norms of wikipedia. This website (about us) describes themselves as " a dynamic group of activists with a deep passion to promote the development of Trivandrum, the beautiful capital city of Kerala". It is unscrupulous to give advertisement to a private website glorifying Thiruvananthapuram using Wikipedia.

The hand book of Thiruvananthapuram claimed to have been published by Public Relations Department is a decade old (2004) document. Public Relations Department website does not have this outdated document. The claim in the more recently updated (16 September 2010) the website of Public Relations Department (about 1975 establishment of KSFDC relocating Malayalam film industry) was discussed and concluded to be irrelevant for the present hub status. A similar claim from an outdated document is not even worth discussing. Prathambhu (talk) 06:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Prathambhu, I have not included any citation from that url. The district handbook is from the government. It is valid to use that. The prd citation you have pointed out is not the handbook. If you could provide the latest version, you are free to do it. If not, the present version could be used. --Samaleks (talk) 14:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

And, please avoid writing a BIG essay as a reply to me. It is very hard to read it fully :-) --Samaleks (talk) 14:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks SilkTork for concluding this Samaleks: Few folks around here are paid to do city marketing. So, no point in even mentioning the facts/figures. Thanks for your contribution 208.95.148.1 (talk) 14:33, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

There is no "few folks". Its only Prathambhu and his sock puppet called Chronicler Sanjay. :D --Samaleks (talk) 14:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi admin

What you said consensus is not what we see on page.

See what Samaleks wrote in wiki page: "Several media sources[2][3] describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry, while the Kerala government publications[4] and government sponsored Kinfra organisation[5] states Thiruvananthapuram is the centre."

What you suggest "By the end of 80s, the Malayalam film industry returned and established itself in Kerala. Several media sources describe Kochi as the hub of the film industry (cite), while the Kerala government sponsored Kinfra organisation states Thiruvananthapuram as the centre".(cite)

Samaleks pretends he agree with you but he is very dishonest. He put different statement and added rejected referenses. I dont agree with ur' statement. But now I cut and pasted only what you suggest on the page. I also added citations.

This Samaleks is abusing the word "sock puppet" on me. Where I can complaint about it ? If he has complaint he must give it to admin. Here he is only abusing other users who dont agree with him. Plse take action on Samaleks. Consider my complaint please. Samaleks is totaly abusive behaviur. He things he can show his frustration on other users completely. Prathambhu is not only user who agree to your statement. JK also agreed. Samaleks and his gang is total dishonest. ChroniclerSanjay (talk) 16:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, I believe now the point of discussion is the following wording in the sentence : the Kerala government publications(cite). There is no wrong in that statement since the citation was correct. Please explain why you are against this wording. Let us close that out here. Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 01:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, you need not add each and every citation available in the internet. One or Two citations are enough to convey the message. Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 01:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

In my opinion, this can be closed (per Aarem). If this stays for some more days then this will cross limit (which can cause war between users and also become more complicated for users to judge). Tolly4bolly 06:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Prathambhu has been blocked for one week for creating the sock account ChroniclerSanjay, and ChroniclerSanjay has been blocked indefinitely. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 13:31, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow! What havoc he played with this article, wasting time and energy of so many people. Thank you SilkTork. Salih (talk) 18:02, 16 April 2013 (UTC)