Talk:Maine Coon/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Native population

This indicates that native Maine Coons can no longer be used for breeding. Isn't it strange that breeders like to play up the naturalness of the breed yet the actual naturally existing Maine Coons are nothing more than mongrels from the show ring perspective.

Does the local population of Maine Coons still exist? Is the reported extinction in the 1950s based on pedigreed Maine Coons or does it take into account the native population? Same question for the polydactylism trait. When we say "the trait was almost eradicated from the breed", are we just taking about pedigrees? --Dodo bird (talk) 00:22, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

You have brought up excellent points, all of which, I believe, has been brought up in the PR (which I will try to begin working on by the end of the week). By the way, thank you for making that edit to the article. I believe the wording is now much better then what I had done in the revision. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 09:20, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Male Maine Coon?

In the Origin section of this article, there's a picture of a beautiful Maine Coon (File:Maine_Coon_2.JPG), the 'problem' is that according to the description, this is a male cat, but its coat looks like it's a (somewhat diluted) tortoiseshell pattern, which means that this cat is female. Can someone throw some light on this subject?
200.26.173.114 (talk) 12:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd really like to know how you came to the conclusion that the cat in question is a tortoiseshell. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 14:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I can see a light orange (or cream) color in many parts of his/her fur, specially in his/her upper lips, s/he has black color in an apparently tabby pattern and white in his/her chest. So, I assume it's a tortie or at least something similar :P
200.26.173.114 (talk) 18:03, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

These reasons are not enough to conclude that the cat is a tortoiseshell. The markings on the head alone are classic signs of a tabby. The person who uploaded the photo is the one who took the picture and added the caption in the article. It'd be pretty far-fetched to assume that the uploader was unaware of the gender of this cat. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 18:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me, but if the cat presents these three colors, it has to be a calico or a tortie, which means it's female. In order to be a male and a tortie, the cat must be a chimera or must carry an extra X chromosome (Klinefelter's syndrome), which is very unlikely (or at least statistics say so). Also, the person who uploaded the picture isn't necessarily the person who 'owns' the cat or takes care of him/her. In fact, there's a possibility that the person who took the picture and the user who uploaded it could be different people. Cheers ^^
200.26.173.114 (talk) 18:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me, but there's no need to get snippy. I am not arguing with you on the fact that tortoiseshell cats are overwhelmingly female, so I don't understand why you brought the genetics argument into play. A cat possessing cream/"light orange", white, and black does not mean that it is a tortoiseshell. My cat has all three of these colors but he is a classic tabby and most certainly a male. Please read the source listing of the file where it states, Own work by uploader. The fact of the matter is this: You do not have enough evidence to state that the cat is indeed a tortoiseshell. However, since you seem adamant about being correct, I will change the captioning to gender-neutral terminology. Hopefully, this will satisfy you. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 19:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

(outdent)Indeed, this solves this problem. However, the problem of your arrogant, impolite and rude attitude is one that doesn't seems to have solution. I won't lower myself to your level and insult you (or try to) since I'm not here for confrontations but to make this great page even better. I hope you learn what proper manners are and what a debate is and isn't. May you have a good day and a good life and thank you for solving this. Farewell my fellow cat lover/enthusiast =]
200.26.173.114 (talk) 19:46, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Farewell to you, as well. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 20:02, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it seems like orange-black-white is a lot more common in longer-haired breeds. My male Siberian has a similar pattern, just a LOT more orange. Aadieu (talk) 03:45, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It's common for male cats to have three colors, but only if tabbies with white. That's what this seems to be, tabby with white.

The Viking Connection

Can anyone please come up with one single, concrete piece of evidence to support the notion that the Vikings brought cats with them when they settled in Canada? Where is this information taken from? Any reliable sources? Facts? Or is it just conjecture? Wild fantasies? Facts please! Facts! And, yes, I know that the Maine Coon really, really looks like the Norwegian Forest Cat, but that doesn't mean that they were brought over from Norway in the 11th century! --Grumpy444grumpy (talk) 09:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Here you go! Also, realize that the article never states that the connection between Maine Coons and the Vikings is a fact. Only a theory. Just thought I'd point that out. Cheers! – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 15:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it states that it is a theory generally accepted by cat-breeders, but this theory is based on what? Superficial physical attributes? If so, I think, for the sake of clarity that the article should state so. Ultimately this should be an interesting one for all those clever DNA chaps out there if anything ;) --Grumpy444grumpy (talk) 15:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The fact that this is a theory is referenced, with 4 sources. ::shrugs:: If I rewrite the article to state something along the lines of, "This theory is based on superficial physical similarities," then I would have to find another reference to cite that. Doesn't make much sense when this "clarification problem" was never brought up in either the GA or peer reviews. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 16:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

And of course, if nobody questions a statement it must be true? So it remains then, a spurious theory based on, well nothing ::shrugs twice:: You don't have any problems with people asking critical questions about an article, do you? --Grumpy444grumpy (talk) 19:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as how I handled both the GA and peer reviews, I would say I have absolutely no problem with critiques of the article. Nor did I ever imply that "if nobody questions a statement, it must be true". :::shrugs thrice::: The sources are not citing that the MC/Viking connection is a fact, nor does the article state that this is a fact. The sources are citing that this theory exists, that this theory is the most acceptable one among breeders, and why it is the most acceptable one. I honestly don't see what the problem is. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 20:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, I yield. Peace? :) --Grumpy444grumpy (talk) 17:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Cosey?

Is the information about her and her picture really necessary to the article? I would imagine that most people come to this page to find general information about Maine Coons...not for information about a cat show that happened over a hundred years ago. If anything, that information should be moved to a page about the history of cat shows, or something of the sort. I think it's unnecessary to get into such detail about the cat and her owner. The picture of the 3 show-quality Maine Coons is more supplementary to the article than an old antique-looking photograph of a cat in 1895. Wo0ter08 (talk) 21:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you realize that Cosey is a Maine Coon?--Dodo bird (talk) 22:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The Maine Coon has a long history with cat shows. This history is part (if not most of) the reason why the breed almost disappeared with the introduction of more "exotic" (if you will) cat breeds. Cosey, who happens to be a Maine Coon, was the first cat to win a national North American cat show. I think mentioning her is important in the history section of the breed, as well as in an article about cat shows. We cannot assume that people only visit the Maine Coon article to only find general information about the breed, and thus expunge information that is tied to the breed's history. If you feel that information from over 100 years ago is unnecessary, then, by logic, we should remove most of the information in the "History" section. I could care less about the image. You two can work that out. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 04:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Violence

Are Maine Coons meaner or more agressive than most cats? If so we need to warn people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.252.0 (talk) 21:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

they're nice to people. Small animals are different. they usually think of critters like hamsters and gerbils as food.--Marhawkman (talk) 21:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

"comment"??

Most people do not believe this but in the early mid 1990s I had a 1/2 breed coon cat. We called him Scooter. Now what i want to say has to do with the reading I did about the breed. Bio-bassed but impossible is the sub heading (or something like that). I disagree... I would take my kids down the riveway and wait for the school bus before work. My oldest was 17 and 1 day we were talking and walking the younger kids down the drive and happened upon a familey of skunks. 1 Parent and 3 or 4 kittens, we stopped just to be safe and I commented that 1 of the kittens seemed odd. My oldest agreed and once the way was safe we looked at the soft sand beside the drive aand 1 skunk kitten had double paws on the front or so it looked. I tracked the odd prints to the edge of the field to make sure it was not just an illusion with all the paws prints. It was not! It was a double pawed skunk Kitten. My cat had breed with the skunk... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.243.248 (talk) 16:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

"Rectangular"??

"Maine Coons possess a rectangular body shape". What does this mean? Although some cats have longer torsos and some shorter, IMHO the degree of "rectangularity" of all cats is about the same. What's notable about Maine Coons? -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 15:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

If you look at all of the breed standards listed in the infobox, you'll notice that Maine Coons are to possess a "rectangular" body shape (i.e., a long torso). I'm only going by what the sources tell me. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 16:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

We should either clearly say in the article what "rectangular" means in this context, or avoid using the term, or make plain in the article that "The breed standard says that MCs are to have a "rectangular" body shape", but we don't really know what that means. (I suppose that my concern comes under WP:JARGON - if we use some odd term that specialists understand, we should define it for the general reader.) -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 19:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I honestly don't see how WP:JARGON comes into play here. The word "rectangle" isn't a subject-specific term. The average reader knows what a rectangle looks like and I'm sure has enough common sense to know how the shape would pertain to a feline. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 20:30, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I also seem to lack the common sense to grasp what "rectangular" might mean in this context. Your comment "(i.e., a long torso)" suggests that a non-rectangular body would probably be a rather quadratic one. This might make sense, as before reading your comment I was wondering how a non-rectangular, or less(?) rectangular body would be shaped then. Circular? Triangular? Something else? It might not directly be WP:JARGON, but it seems pretty close. A description along the lines of "long torso" would certainly be more enlightening than "rectangular". 84.112.183.24 (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why Jargon would apply here because it's used in the context of a quote.--Marhawkman (talk) 23:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Check the breed description of its nearest equivalent, the Norwegian Forest Cat. That one, due to its shorter forelegs, has a triangular body shape. The 'rectangular body shape' is a shorthand for 'longer than tall, with the spine parallel to the floor when standing at rest'. Mvdwege (talk) 10:23, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Ownership

I have been reading the discussion on this page and it does seem like that Ms. Sarita is trying to own the page.--68.19.210.175 (talk) 23:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Own? no. But she is doing a good job of monitoring it. :)--Marhawkman (talk) 06:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

is one of the many reasons I have abandoned this article. The accusations of ownership and the hostility were outrageous. I have not been on WP in months, yet am still having the "ownership" label thrown my way. Are my comments on this discussion page overwhelmingly abundant? Yes. Because I spent hours on this article and knew the sources and information by heart. Some people love to point fingers but failed to have anything to do with the actual revision of the article. It was all (and still quite is) rather interesting. I hope that others will continue to monitor this page for its own well-being. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 08:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I've always liked your input. I would rather see you continue to help.--Marhawkman (talk) 21:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Marhawkman. Your input and help on this article have been excellent. I hope you continue to keep it updated and possibly improve it even more! – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 19:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Shedding

Do these types of cats shed badly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Maine coons typically have a lot of season variation to their coat length so they do usually shed heavily in spring/summer.219.89.178.160 (talk) 07:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

In otherwords, yes, very much so. Winter coat changing to summer coat means that all the long hairs fall out.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Curiously, I had a male Main Coon while I was growing up and he had a great deal of shedding. The female Main Coon that I now have sheds very little, even during the Summer. The reasons for this are not entirely known, just speculations, therefor the article does not mention much about the topic of shedding.Mdriver1981 (talk) 02:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, shedding is done as a response to summer heat. If the cat stays in a well cooled house it won't need to shed.--Marhawkman (talk) 23:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I have heard that short-haired domestic cats actually shed as much as the long hairs, except it is less noticeable because of the length of the hair. I have had both a female Maine Coon (great amount of shedding, but a healty cat) and a short-haired standard-model tabby (which is supposed to shed less), and I think there's some truth to this. I've also heard that a cat will shed when passing close to a TV screen (the older CRTs) because its brain thinks it is summertime (because of the light), triggering this response.Cortina2 (talk) 18:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I heard a different version. that they shed more next to a tv beause of the static charge on the screen.--Marhawkman (talk) 21:05, 22 February 2010 (UTC)