Talk:Maiden's Prayer

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English lyrics by John Stowell Adams?

The unsubstantiated assertion that English lyrics were written by John Stowell Adams (marked as "citation needed" since September 2009) should not be the opening sentence of a paragraph about Bob Wills, if there is any good reason to retain it at all. I have of course googled John Stowell Adams, who was somewhat notable as an author, e.g. Adams' New Musical Dictionary of Fifteen Thousand Technical Words, Phrases (1865). More relevantly, The University of Alabama has a copy of a song titled "I Am Going There, or the Death of Little Eva" that Adams "adapted to a favorite melody," published in 1852. The music can be listened to at PD Music's Music from 1800-1860 (scroll down to 1852 and click on Adams' name). The tune is not "Maiden's Prayer," which wasn't published in Poland until 1856; but this at least establishes that Adams was a lyricist. As for Adams having written lyrics for "Maiden's Prayer," the most important source is unfortunately this very article, which has been reproduced on so many web pages that I hesitate to edit it. The only third-party source I found was Esquire's The Wondrich Take. However, if there was a version of "Maiden's Prayer" with English lyrics predating Bob Wills that was as popular as this writer suggests, then it seems probable that a Google search would turn up something. Preservationist957 (talk) 18:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As the "citation needed" flag has been unanswered for such a long time, and given what you write above, I agree that the claim should be removed. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your encouragement, but I'm reluctant to consign J.S. Adams to the dust bin of history when my search at least revealed that the claim is plausible, i.e. Adams was a lyricist living during that time period (d. 1893). If the PD Music page cited above covered another 30 years, we might very well have a definitive answer. I have no quarrel with the first paragraph even though it has no citations. In all likelihood, the original writers knew what they were talking about. I intend to split the text into two sections, with Adams above the line and Bob Wills below; and devote my efforts to improving the second section, as titled below. Preservationist957 (talk) 17:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In country music

Bob Wills was a fiddle player, and his 1935 version of "Maiden's Prayer" was strictly instrumental. To listen to a sample, see Allmusic "Maiden's Prayer" Bob Wills. In country music, "Maiden's Prayer" has typically been performed as an instrumental with fiddle. The Buck Owens version mentioned in the article is an excellent example (see Allmusic I've Got a Tiger by the Tail Buck Owens Review with chart and music sample). Roy Clark recorded an instrumental version with electric guitar in 1962 (see Allmusic The Lightning Fingers of Roy Clark Review with music sample).

For a sample of the later version with lyrics by Bob Wills and vocals by Tommy Duncan, see Allmusic "A Maiden's Prayer" Bob Wills. (I'm not sure if the sample is from the 1941 single or a subsequent re-recording for an LP.) There are only two more recent vocal versions of note, both using the Bob Wills lyrics (with minor variations, e.g. the maiden is an Indian in Price's version): Allmusic San Antonio Rose Ray Price Review with music sample (1962) and Allmusic Red Headed Stranger Willie Nelson Review with chart and music sample. According to the Wikipedia article Red Headed Stranger, "Maiden's Prayer" was not included on the original 1975 LP but is featured on Columbia/Legacy's 2000 CD reissue. Preservationist957 (talk) 20:38, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I encourage you to edit the article along the line of your findings. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Submitted for your approval. There is less redundancy concerning Bob Wills. Preservationist957 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:40, 1 January 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Vocalion 03924 not released until 1938; unsure what to do regarding infobox

A previous writer correctly noted that Vocalion 03924 was "recorded in 1935," but third-party sources indicate that it wasn't released until 1938. I first consulted Praguefrank's Country Music Discographies: Bob Wills - part II because the usual sources (Allmusic, LP Discography, Discogs, CMT) had no track list for the album Bob Wills Sings and Plays to confirm a previous writer's claim that "Maiden's Prayer" is included on it. It appears to be a very meticulous discography, so I double-checked the two single versions and found that a date of "02-38" is given for the earliest version. Secondhandsongs "The Maiden's Prayer" also gives 1938 as year of release. A third source is Vocalion 3500 - 4000 (1937 - 1938) (note the date range), which gives a date of 9/23/1935. In case there is any doubt that this was the date of recording rather than release, the date given for the B-side of Vocalion 03924 ("Never No More Hard Times Blues") is 6/8/1937. (Vocalion obviously couldn't release the single until after the B-side was recorded.) The next thing I do will be to move "Maiden's Prayer" from 1935 in country music to 1938. Update: I also moved it at Bob Wills Discography.

I'm not satisfied with the infobox, but still undecided what to do about it. I know we are encouraged to replace old infoboxes with newer templates, but that might be even worse. If Bob Wills is to be mentioned as lyricist, then the box would strictly refer only to the 1941 version. Sorry Bob Wills fans, but he was only arranger and fiddle player of the earliest recorded version. Preservationist957 (talk) 01:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your outstanding work. Infoboxes: it has been shown again and again that they cope only with the most simplistic of circumstances; I think that the particular facts here warrant omitting the infobox and to present the details in the article. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:54, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your recommendation is a good one; infobox deleted. By the way, I copied that MIDI box from Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska, and recently made minor changes to the Bob Wills paragraph there. As for John Stowell Adams, he's been relocated and rephrased (no more "The" English language lyrics...) so as not to detract from the treatment of Bob Wills. If he was deleted by someone, I wouldn't undo; but I'm inclined to leave him there in case some wikipedian finds a copy of his version of the song in a university library. I'm going to resist my natural inclination to research an exhaustive list of cover versions (see my article Just Call Me Lonesome (song), which is nothing but), even though I could name a few more off the top of my head. In fact, I'm satisfied with this article now and have begun research for an article on the Bob Wills song "Bubbles In My Beer." (I sometimes wonder what a song article that isn't a "stub" would look like.) Preservationist957 (talk) 14:09, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on this beautiful old song, one of my favorites. I mostly wrote the Yodeling article - could you take a look at it to see if you have any suggestions? Gandydancer (talk) 15:39, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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