Talk:Mahesh Babu filmography

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Lead bloat

I reverted these good-faith edits by Anon at 183.82.* The lead is already bloated, and this is a filmography, i.e. a list of his works. It is not intended to provide a blow-by-blow account of every film he made. Leads in general are typically 4 paragraphs total. Look at Amitabh Bachchan filmography, which tracks his 50 year career. This is a featured list article, meaning that it has achieved the highest standard of Wikipedia list article and has endured significant community scrutiny. We should aspire to be closer to that. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:42, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Based on the above recommendation by @Cyphoidbomb:, I removed a complete needless statement with garbage reference here but it was reverted without explanation. Earlier, an IP was also trying to help removing self published source (Random youtube channel with meager 6k subs) but it was constantly being reverted by multiple users. Trimming down the article is not possible if the current situation persists. On a side note, A few editors have shown keen interest in creating an article for a film called Sarkaru Vaari Paata and adding it to filmography, It was just announced this morning with no evidence of principal photography being commenced.--Ab207 (talk) 16:52, 31 May 2020 (UTC).

Those YouTube videos are garbage. One has been removed, the other is not a noteworthy outlet. I've removed the addition of Sarkaru from the filmography, as we don't add unreleased films until someone can prove principal photography (filming) has begun. I've also redirected that prematurely created article. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for a swift response! I shall continue to make an effort to improve the article as per the above.--Ab207 (talk) 17:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ab207: You might want to look at the Featured List articles for examples of what we're going for. There is a section for filmographies. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Sure, that would give a good lead.--Ab207 (talk) 17:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ab207: @Cyphoidbomb: I don't understand why the produced movies part was removed. He produced 4 films but why is there only one. Also why is the list of languages removed he has acted in Telugu and Tamil. SP013 (talk) 19:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@SP013: The article was restored to a previous version by an editor to cut the lead bloat. I'm guessing lot of necessary info may also have been lost. Coming to producer part, I'd recommend we go on the lines of Aamir Khan filmography as it's needless to have multiple tables, this can also include other credits like Voiceover etc. Also list of languages is doesn't help much as all of his films are shot in Telugu or bilinguals at max.--Ab207 (talk) 20:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ab207: I changed it to where there are only two tables as in the producer and actor. Is this fine? SP013 (talk) 20:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@SP013: 3 out of 4 films are his own movies. Please have a look at Shah Rukh Khan filmography and Salman Khan filmography. They also like Mahesh Babu co-produce their own films but there is no dedicated table as producer for them. These are featured articles and I think they are good example to follow. Ab207 (talk) 20:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

1: Nenokkadine earned a distributor share of ₹84 million at the AP-Nizam box office on its first day, and ₹124 million over its opening weekend. Its United States opening box office total was $947,000 (₹58.2 million), which trade analyst Taran Adarsh called a "glorious start" and "one of the best openings ever by an Indian film". 1: Nenokkadine passed the $1 million mark in three days, the seventh Telugu film (and Mahesh's third, after Dookudu and Seethamma Vakitlo Sirimalle Chettu) to earn a million dollars. On its fourth and fifth days the film earned a share of ₹32.5 million at the AP-Nizam box office, for a five-day total share of about ₹150 million.

By the end of 1: Nenokkadine's first week it had earned a distributor share of ₹181 million at the AP-Nizam box office, ₹21 million in Karnataka and ₹9 million in the rest of India. The film's first-week global box-office total was ₹252 million. In ten days 1: Nenokkadine grossed over $1.27 million in the United States, the fourth-highest-grossing Telugu film in that country. The film earned about ₹540 million worldwide, on a budget of ₹700 million..

Aagadu debuted with a positive response at the box office by crossing the US$1 million mark in two days including its paid previews at the United States box office. It collected ₹180.2 million in two days, which according to Indo-Asian News Service, was Mahesh's career best opener. By collecting a distributor share of ₹276 million in its first weekend globally, Aagadu became the second highest Telugu film with highest opening weekend figures. Due to unfavourable word of mouth, the film's business witnessed a drop and it collected ₹312 million in its first week, ending the week on an average note. 183.82.141.28 (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

1: Nenokkadine earned a distributor share of ₹84 million at the AP-Nizam box office on its first day, and ₹124 million over its opening weekend. Its United States opening box office total was $947,000 (₹58.2 million), which trade analyst Taran Adarsh called a "glorious start" and "one of the best openings ever by an Indian film". 1: Nenokkadine passed the $1 million mark in three days, the seventh Telugu film (and Mahesh's third, after Dookudu and Seethamma Vakitlo Sirimalle Chettu) to earn a million dollars. On its fourth and fifth days the film earned a share of ₹32.5 million at the AP-Nizam box office, for a five-day total share of about ₹150 million.

By the end of 1: Nenokkadine's first week it had earned a distributor share of ₹181 million at the AP-Nizam box office, ₹21 million in Karnataka and ₹9 million in the rest of India. The film's first-week global box-office total was ₹252 million. In ten days 1: Nenokkadine grossed over $1.27 million in the United States, the fourth-highest-grossing Telugu film in that country.

Aagadu debuted with a positive response at the box office by crossing the US$1 million mark in two days including its paid previews at the United States box office. It collected ₹180.2 million in two days, which according to Indo-Asian News Service, was Mahesh's career best opener. By collecting a distributor share of ₹276 million in its first weekend globally, Aagadu became the second highest Telugu film with highest opening weekend figures. Due to unfavourable word of mouth, the film's business witnessed a drop and it collected ₹312 million in its first week, ending the week on an average note.

After the release of Loukyam and Govindudu Andarivadele, Aagadu lost major portion of its screens. In its lifetime, Aagadu collected a distributor share of ₹342.5 million 183.82.141.28 (talk) 15:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2020

Expand the filmography wiki data 183.82.141.141 (talk) 01:43, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. Edit requests are for requests to make specific edits, not general pleas for article improvement. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Mahesh Babu's name

@MSG17: I get what you are trying to say. But your explanation is not at all convincing. Ghattamaneni is his surname (Its NOT patronymic, patronymic is taking one's father name, in this case, Krishna) but since he doesn't use his full name and he is credited and populary known as "Mahesh Babu," that becomes his pseudonym, making Babu his pseudonymous surname as per WP:SURNAME. The only way we can refer him as Mahesh is if we can establish that he is mononymously referred as Mahesh (like Ajith Kumar being referred as Ajith).--Ab207 (talk) 20:01, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree with your note, Ab207. These changes are not consistent with WP:SURNAME. We don't care what bad journalists call him. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for the bad explanation and mistake. I still think that Mahesh is better, but I am not an expert and will have to do more research into his name (and even if it is Mahesh, it would definitely not be the norm for a Telugu name). Other than the references on the page, there is some promotional material which identifies him as "Superstar Mahesh", but that is probably not reliable. I will undo the change. MSG17 (talk) 01:00, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2020

add more information to mahesh babu fimography include closing collections and openings.)) 183.82.136.104 (talk) 23:22, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:27, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Anon, re: this paste-dump, you fail to realise that this is a filmography, i.e. a list of films that the subject has worked on. That is the sole focus of this article. It is not intended to be wall of prose that goes into laborious detail about film finances. Article lead sections are ideally 3-4 paragraphs long. Look at Alfred Hitchcock filmography, for example, where there are no financial figures. That article is a Featured List Article, meaning it represents the highest-quality of list articles. Further, you need to discuss these changes and seek consensus for them, since other editors like Ab207 and MSG17 have made significant efforts to pare the list article down to community norms. Your problematic editing, which seems to ignore the community aspect of this encyclopedia, is the reason why the article has been protected. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:44, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

IBT removal

@MSG17: Hey there, I didn't quite understand the rationale behind this edit and was hoping you could explain. You said According to WP:RS, IBT is generally unreliable except for aggregations, and even then some of their film review aggregations are from random Twitter users and not critics, so replaced the site's citations (except for 1:N and Maharshi as actual critics are featured), replaced Pinkvilla with a better, less clickbaity source. While I understand that unscientific audience polls are not great for inclusion, I'm mostly confused by the statement "According to WP:RS, IBT is generally unreliable except for aggregations", since I'm not aware of a discussion that decided IBT is generally unreliable, but maybe I'm focussing on the wrong part of your statement? Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:53, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I linked the wrong page. It should be WP:RS/P (perennial sources for discussion on the reliable sources noticeboard). According to the site's listing there, International Business Times is generally unreliable (with the exception of syndicated content, which is of the same reliability as its original producer(s)). With that and the aforementioned social media skimming, I decided to replace most IBT links. MSG17 (talk)

@MSG17: Though it's hard for me to argue with the multiple discussions about IBT, the Indian Cinema Task Force has typically found them somewhat reliable for the general fluff of Indian entertainment news. That said, I won't interfere, and I appreciate the explanation, thank you. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Citiations

Hello DaxServer. Following your request for clean up, I tried to remove/replace excessive citations, however, the article's FL status neccessitates them per WP:FLCR. I have also merged back the narrator table back in the main table, as four entries are not too many to justify a seperate table. Hope the issue is cleared. Regards -- Ab207 (talk) 07:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

MSG17, please note. Feel free to add back any of the references should you deem it necessary. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:59, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ab207 Thanks for the heads up! I was not aware of the Wikipedia:FLCR -- DaxServer (talk) 08:27, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Mahesh Babu's name (again)

@Ab207: @Cyphoidbomb: Sorry to bring this up again after a whole year, but I have learned a lot more and have also looked at my own family's names. Maheah Babu's full name is Ghattamaneni Mahesh Babu; as it is a traditionally ordered Telugu name, "Ghattamaneni" is the family name while "Mahesh Babu" is the given name (Telugu names offers a rudimentary explanation). An alternative explanation is that "Mahesh" is the given name while "Babu" is more of a title or nickname. Either way, it is extremely weird to refer to him as "Babu" (lit. "son/young master", "son" is used here like how a mentor would call an adolescent boy in certain American contexts); it would be like calling Martin Luther King Jr. "Junior" in wikiprose because "that's the last word in his name". In addition, I think Cyphoidbomb's dismissal was quite callous as no source in Mahesh Babu filmography refers to him as "Babu", with most sources using "Mahesh Babu" and some using "Mahesh" (with even Forbes doing this!). Clearly, it is not just bad journalists who haven't done their research. You can see this pattern in other people with traditional Telugu names: for example, Akkineni Nagarjuna Rao is called Nagarjuna and his son Akkineni Naga Chaitanya is called Naga Chaitanya. MSG17 (talk) 01:47, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey, MSG17. Long time no see. While you are correct in saying that many Telugus do not use full names regularly, I would disagree with the notion that Babu is some sort of nickname or title. Though it may mean as a "son" or a "boy," Babu is also a common given name. Because Mahesh Babu is the WP:COMMONNAME, Babu becomes a "pseudonymous" surname. For the same reason Courtney Love is referred to as Love, Bruno Mars is referred to as Mars, and Akshay Kumar is referred to as Kumar, even though they are not actually their "surnames." -- Ab207 (talk) 07:14, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

The examples you have given are all different. Courtney Love had changed her name multiple times through her life, but it's still based on her full name and fits the Western standard. The latter two are purely stage names, while Mahesh Babu's name, well, isn't - in fact, in shares more similarity with Western celebrities not regularly including their middle names except in certain cases. I don't know about how "Babu" works in Malayalam (which seems to make up the plurality of names on that list). However, the Telugu people put on that dab page where put there because they happened to have "Babu" in their name, not because that is how they are referred by. For example, Jagapathi Babu is not referred to as "Babu", but with the full form of his publicly used name (itself basically his personal name (see his full name: Veeramachaneni Jagapathi Chowdary - this time fitting the pattern of being referred to by given name with "Babu" being tacked on at the end) with some publications just using "Jagapathi" ain a similar situation as Mahesh. (Examples: 12345) When there is such a broad consensus across reliable sources to use "Mahesh/Jagapathi Babu" over "Babu" (with "Mahesh/Jagapathi" being used by a minority) to address these actors, then this must be explored further. Last time, WP:SURNAME came up; it should be noted that there is a section for "Culture-specific usages". Although traditional Telugu names use family names instead of patronymics, I think the same principle still applies. MSG17 (talk) 01:05, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Your point about western names is a valid one. Personally, I think MOS:SURNAME offers an enthno-centric viewpoint that ignores a large part of the world that does not use surnames like the people of Indo-European languages do. I've faced considerable resistance when I argued that PV Sindhu should be referred to as Sindhu and not Pusarla because she uses an initial rather than surname (Talk:P. V. Sindhu#Subsequent use). In this case, however, I don't think referring him as Babu is particularly problematic. It's intuitive to refer people by 'last name' (regardless of whether its a surname or given name) and looks professional. Cyphoidbomb hasn't been active for a while a now, he could tell us if there's a case for making an exception. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:11, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I definitely agree. MOS:SURNAME needs to at least elaborate a bit more with its cultural notes. Mashing together all of South and Southeast Asia without explaining the exact names by language/region and differences does not make for a clear policy. And, of course, it needs an update to properly accommodate Telugu names. MSG17 (talk) 02:42, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

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