Talk:Magneto (film character)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Older discussions:
RM, Magneto (film character) → Erik Lehnsherr (film series character), not moved, 10 October 2022, permalink RM, Magneto (film character) → Magneto (X-Men film series), no consensus, 5 June 2022, permalink RM, Magneto (film character) → Erik Lehnsherr (film series character), Not moved, 3 December 2021, permalink

Requested move 3 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved – the discussion puts more weight on the common name than consistency. (As obiter, one can say that the consistent method would be "go with the name that's used more in the film"; it's been a long time since I've seen the X-Men films, but IIRC, only Xavier calls him Erik). Sceptre (talk) 17:34, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Magneto (film series character) → Erik Lehnsherr (film series character) – WP:CONSISTENT with other X-Men film character articles including Logan (film series character) and Charles Xavier (film series character), both of which use the characters' real names instead of their codenames. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:33, 3 December 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 04:18, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All entries in Category:X-Men film series characters use the character name and not alias. Gonnym (talk) 10:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Shouldn't WP:COMMONNAME apply here and for all other characters? Searching magneto gives over 500 million results while searching his full name does not even get 1 million. --The Tips of Apmh 13:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are those 500 million results for the comic book character or the film character? Gonnym (talk) 16:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning support. The film series characters are so named because the films, requiring a higher level of realism than what can be accomplished in a comic book format, generally have characters referring to each other by their given names. Because of this, most instances of this character being addressed by another person have that other person call him "Erik". BD2412 T 18:30, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose WP:COMMONNAME - Wikipedia is for the general reader not specialists. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:46, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- How do we know that the common name of the film character is the same as the common name of the comic book character? BD2412 T 18:32, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - If their is no evidence 'Erik Lehnsherr' is the common name teh article shouldn't be moved—blindlynx 16:54, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as failing the WP:CRITERIA of recognizability and naturalness. For an average reader who is "familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in" the X-Men films, the current title is much more recognizable than the proposed one. Colin M (talk) 20:28, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CONSISTENT is also one of the five WP:CRITERIA. The question now is, which one do we give more weight to? InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:42, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Magneto is clearly the common name. Are we to rename Lord Voldemort to Tom Riddle as well? ASUKITE 04:21, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

- ”Deadpool” and “Wolverine” should be more common titles than “Wade Wilson” and “Logan”. While I may not agree with this reasoning, we need to keep articles more uniform and inline with one another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Advofspec (talk • contribs) 16:12, October 10, 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Magneto (Marvel Comics) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. To paraphrase the close of #Requested move 3 December 2021, WP:COMMONNAME is the "consistent rule for naming these characters" nominator asked for. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 02:35, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, names like ”Deadpool”, “Wolverine”, “Professor X”, “Spider-Man”, “Star-Lord”, “War Machine”, “Black Widow”, “Iron Man”, “Captain America”, “Black Panther”, “Daredevil”, “Captain Marvel”, “Ms. Marvel”, “Ant-Man”, and “Hulk” are the more common titles than “Wade Wilson”, “Logan”, “Peter Parker”, “Peter Quill”, “James Rhodes”, “Natasha Ramonoff”, “Tony Stark”, and “Steve Rogers”, “T’Challa”, “Matt Murdock”, “Carol Danvers”, “Kamala Khan”, “Scott Lang”, and “Bruce Banner”, and yes, while I may not agree with the other article’s decision for the opposite, we should keep articles more uniform and inline with one another. Either we should change this article’s name to Erik Lehnsherr (film series character), or change all the others to their common names, we need to come up with a consistent rule for naming these characters. I need some suggestions on what to do. Advofspec(talk) 24:20, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:CRITERIA. While consistency can be helpful, recognizability is also to be considered. I find "Magneto" to be far more recognizable than "Erik Lehnsherr". Honestly, some MCU characters probably warrant their superhero moniker more than their actual name. Like I don't find "Carol Danvers" to be more recognizable than "Captain Marvel" or "Scott Lang" more recognizable than "Ant-Man". Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 17:58, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, this was already discussed less than a year ago with the same rationale I stated above. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:52, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, part of the problem with the idea of moving the MCU characters to their hero names is how the characters use their regular names way more than their hero names, but also how a lot of those monikers are carried by multiple characters. For those examples you mentioned — within the MCU, "Captain Marvel" was also kinda used by Mar-Vell, "Ant-Man" was also used by Hank Pym, etc. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:57, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you're saying but do not think these examples are ideal, being miniscule in scope. A better one would be Captain America, for which we have Steve Rogers and now Sam Wilson. We could have a Captain America (Marvel Cinematic Universe) summary-style article that covers these two (and John Walker, I suppose). I feel like it is a tall order to assume that all moviegoers will definitely know the first Captain America to be Steve Rogers. It's the superhero moniker that is in the film titles and is repeated all over the place, much more than the name. In essence, I think it is better to go with the superhero moniker until two people use that moniker in a noteworthy way. Like I consider Ant-Man (Marvel Cinematic Universe) a more recognizable article title than Scott Lang (Marvel Cinematic Universe). We have to be mindful that not everyone is a dedicated fan of the comics and the related films, so saying "Scott Lang" in common parlance does not necessarily invoke Ant-Man in everyone's head. It's the moniker that comes to mind first. That's my take anyway. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MCU characters are titled like this not only because of what Paintspot said, but also because of WP:CONSISTENT/simplicity, plus the MCU is more realistic/grounded than the comics so it's better if we stick to their "real life" names. And if we switch to using their superhero monikers, editors will start debating "but this was never said in the film!" and "the end credits said so" and "official merchandise says this" etc, so that just creates a hassle for us. Take Wanda Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Marvel's official website actually called her "Scarlet Witch" when promoting Age of Ultron, and so do her action figures. But then in WandaVision, they made it clear via dialogue that she wasn't call that just so they could make the "name reveal" extra fancy. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:51, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I get all that, but we have to remember that this is about article titles and readers effectively locating the topics. First, it may be that not all readers will realize that MCU characters have their own articles. If they do believe that there is an article for an MCU character, what are they most likely to search for? Let's say if they want to find the article for the MCU character Scott Lang / Ant-Man. Which term are they most likely to type, drawing from common parlance? I don't think "Scott Lang" would come to mind (across the general populace) as much as "Ant-Man" would. All the films are titled with the superhero monikers, and these monikers are repeatedly used in reliable sources. The "realistic/grounded" stuff is comparatively in-universe, which we should not follow as much as out-of-universe context. I get that there are some edge cases, but I think we have to be mindful that not everyone is a dedicated fan who remembers the full real names. Again, I recognize that consistency helps, but at the same time, recognizability needs to be considered too. A reader should see the title and quickly know that's what they want -- that superhero in that fictional universe. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:36, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's where redirects come in. InfiniteNexus (talk) 15:24, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) ~~First of all, @Advofspec, this move request has not been properly formatted. Please follow the directions at WP:RSPM to fix this.~~ Secondly, oppose. As you can see above at #Requested move 3 December 2021, there was a previous RM on this less than a year ago in which there was consensus to keep this name. You have not presented any additional evidence beyond what I originally wrote back in December, so there is no indication consensus has changed or will change. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:56, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like Erik has fixed the formatting error. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:57, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.