Talk:Magneto (Marvel Comics)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archiving

Archived the talk page by moving it. There were just too many unsigned comments to try to go through the history to fix. Moving the page history seemed the right way to handle it. - jc37 20:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup topics

Length

Obviously the article is rather long.

• For one thing, due to the character's mental/emotional/ethical complexity, and because Magneto is a major actor in the Marvel universe, the "synopsis" of his history has become rather long. However, I see several places where we can begin condensing/splitting:
  • History (the sections which follow the Early life and Rise of Magneto sections) - These sections need to be unified and condensed into a single section, with "extra" information merged into associated articles.
  • Xorn-specific information is best dealt with in the Xorn article. And since this is "ongoing", it also keeps all edits/changes in one location. A very short summary, with a template:Main link should be fine.
  • There is enough information to start a separate article dealing with the character's ethical complexities. A discussion about what to call that article would be helpful.

• Alternate versions - these should all be merged into the associated articles' character entries, and just be a simple listing, with perhaps a sentence or two for reference.

• Whether or not the "membership" templates are deleted, Template:X-Men should be placed at the bottom of the article.

This is at least a starting point. - jc37 19:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the history the first thing that needs to be chopped up is the House of M section. It's overly long for such a small part of the character's history. I've only skimmed the series so someone more familiar with the mini should take a shot at condensing it. WesleyDodds 08:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations

Another thing we need is citations. Books about comic books, that DK Ultimate Guide to the X-Men, articles in print that offer analysis about the character, interviews with creators, documentaries from X-Men DVDs and television (quite a few comics documentaries have been made), and so forth can all be cited in order to give a fuller picture of the character. WesleyDodds 21:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The DK books contain many errors. I talked to two of the editors recently, regarding the upcoming MARVEL ENCYCLOPEDIA, which is apparently going to be much more accurate, because it was rewritten from scratch, and a team of writers worked on it, and a team of editors from Marvel checked it out. The DK Guides are problematic, because the author, Sanderson, had not kept up with all the history of the characters, and remains aloof from Marvel, and DK did not feel it necessary to check with Marvel when it reprinted the Guides. The original X-MEN book from DK, edited by Jon Richardson, was going to be corrected but then Richardson left DK. The 2nd and 3rd editions were published after he left -- you'll note his name is still listed as editor -- as reprints, and while some more recent events and characters were added, none of the previous mistakes that he was going to fix, were fixed. Always more accurate are the "Marvel Encyclopedia" series, that used to be published in-house, and the Official Handbooks. There are a number of books that were published in the last year.--Myst3 03:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to a copy of Comics Creators on X-Men? It's a collection of interviews with writers and artists who've worked on X-Men comics. I skimmed through this at the bookstore today and found a couple of interesting points:

• Stan Lee says he toyed with the idea of making Xavier and Magneto brothers
• Chris Claremont's interpretation of Magento stems from the first time he is shown without his helmet[1], which made him think that he didn't look like such a bad guy after all. He goes in-depth into his formulation of Magneto's background and why he chose the Holocaust background.
• John Byrne advocates the "vicious bastard" interpretation of Magneto, and insinuates that Claremont wrote Magneto the way he did (evil with a bit of nobility about him) because he wanted to use Dr. Doom but couldn't after the whole Doombot debacle in Uncanny X-Men. He says "He even had a gypsy background at one point". WesleyDodds 03:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

John Byrne is, once again, repeating a lie that's been repeatedly disproven. Dave Cockrum and Chris Claremont have both attested to that. John Byrne's story is a fabrication, that he started putting about after the first X-MEN movie came out. It is complete horse hockey. I've spoken to Dave Cockrum several times about it, and he's written about it, and he's quoted in the X-MEN CREATORS book you cite above. (I do have a copy.) If you read the X-MEN COMPANION volumes 1 and 2 from 1982, with interviews of Claremont, Cockrum, Byrne, and several others, it is clear what Claremont thought of the character Dr. Doom as a monster and a ratbastard, and he thought that Magneto had nobility. He didn't want to make Magneto another "Dr. Doom" because his perception of Doom was different from Byrne's. But Byrne's story is a fabrication. As Cockrum and Claremont have repeatedly said, they DID get to use Dr. Doom! In the story arc immediately preceding the Magneto arc where Claremont gave Magneto his Holocaust history. As Dave Cockrum has said, why in the world would they want to use Doom again? They just used him! As a matter of fact, it was Byrne who was wildly jealous that Claremont had used Doom, and he very much disapproved of the way Claremont used him in UNCANNY X-MEN, and that is why he invented the "Doom-bot" idea in the first place, to try and say that the Doom Claremont used in UNCANNY wasn't the real Dr. Doom! So, no, Claremont and Cockrum planned to make Magneto a Jewish Holocaust survivor in 1981, and he was always meant to be Jewish. As they both have stated. They were there, they were the creators involved. -- Myst3 03:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course I put little stock in what John Byrne says as any sort of absolute truth, but it's still a viewpoint he maintains that you can cite. WesleyDodds 06:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

"His magnetic fields have been measured at over 200 tesla, and no firm upper limit to the intensity of the fields has been established." Can we get a citation for this, because I would love to read that comic! --Kiplingkat 12:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.68.76 (talk)

Chronology

We also need to take out the in-universe chronology of the fictional biography. He wasn't introduced as a Holocaust victim, for example. --Newt_ΨΦ 21:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That's fine to mention in the biography, but the publication history prior to it should mention how the character started in the Silver Age (raving madman) and how Claremont added details over the years. WesleyDodds 21:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not so sure, check Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/Style guidance#The use of in-universe statistics and chronology. I think with retcons and such it might leave a bit too much out to treat his history as continuous, but maybe so. --Newt_ΨΦ 22:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose my point is while his Holocast background is a retcon, it didn't replace anything, since prior to that almost none of his background was given; consequently, much of his appearances rely on it and related details (Magda, his friendship with Xavier, etc.) for context. After all, Batman didn't have an origin until five issues after his first appearance, but it's become integral to understanding the character. WesleyDodds 01:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Gotcha. I agree it should be included, however I'm wondering if we should follow out-of-universe chronology, meaning we start with his first appearance and talk about how his backstory is later retconned/revealed in a flashback by Claremont or whoever in that issue of Uncanny X-Men, basically treating him as a comic book character who is developed over the years, or treat him like a real person and first talk about his birth, then his childhood, his coming to terms with his powers, his marriage to Magda, his subsequent search for her... and so on. I'm thinking we should do the former. --Newt_ΨΦ 01:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I am for reducing the in-universe chronology but so much information about the character has been given, including the "Erik Lehnsherr" false identity, having some sort of sketch or timeline of the character history would be very useful to include for people wanting to learn about the character itself rather than it's literary history.75.110.75.22 13:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)KiplingKat

There's an index of X-Men comics at TheXAxis.com that yields several historical details (for one, Magneto was so one-dimensional when he debuted that even his background with Xavier didn't exist yet). There's also a listing of stories that take place before his first appearance. WesleyDodds 01:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for that. There's also Bibliography of Magneto which I used to condense and cite the "Early life" section. I also worded it more out-of-universe and it reads more than ever like it needs to follow out of universe chronology. --Newt_ΨΦ 02:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think the character history falls under this:

• "Of course, out-of-universe information needs context; details of creation, development, etc. are more helpful if the reader understands a fictional element's role in its own milieu. This often involves using the fiction to give plot summaries, character descriptions or biographies, or direct quotations. This is not inherently bad, provided that the fictional passages are short, are given the proper context, and do not constitute the main portion of the article. If such passages stray into the realm of interpretation, secondary sources must be provided to avoid original research." - Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction)

- jc37 04:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

But that section further states:

• "Even these short summaries can often be written from an out-of-universe perspective, and when this is possible, this approach should be preferred."

which leads me to believe we should still try to work out-of-universe, especially in chronology. It's more informative about the character to talk about his early appearances as a one-dimensional megalomaniac and move on to introduce the later developed backstory of why he's a megalomaniac than to treat it as one continuous story. There's little disclosure right now of the 20 years time and different writers from Magneto's first appearance and the development of his tragic past. --Newt_ΨΦ 13:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

General Comments

I agree that the personal history of Magneto needs to be condensed, especially in instances such as "House of M" which has its own article, in favor of a treatment of Magneto the fictional character and how he has been approached by various writers through the X-Men and their spin off series runs. The argument between Byrne and Claremont being one of many various artists have had over the years over the character being either a craven bastard or walking Greek tragedy (megalomaniacal being a given). 75.110.75.22 00:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)KiplingKat

Erik

Granted that Magneto has used many aliases over the years, but Isn't it firmly established that his first name is actually Erik? - jc37 22:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I kind of get that impression. And hell, that's the name they give him in the movies. It's interesting to note that in the "Planet X" issues the recap pages give his real name as Erik Magnus Lehnsherr; I think he's even called Erik in the story. But we all know what happened with that. WesleyDodds 22:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd like to be able to use "Erik", especially in the "early history" section (before he was known as Magneto, which is also an alias, just one that is the most commonly known). So can you point me to any actual citations? (An issue where someone actually calls him Erik as a child, for example.) - jc37 23:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"Erik" is a an assumed name, though. There is no comic that has him called "Erik" as a child. Magneto took this false name after Magda ran away from him, before he immigrated to Israel and met Charles Xavier. "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" is not his real name, and we don't know what his name was when he was a child. Either "Erik" or "Magnus" could have been part of his birth name, but that is nothing but speculation at this point. He himself has declared "Magnus" as his only name, so I call him Magnus when I'm referring to his history before he met Charles Xavier. The "recap" page of a comic book isn't considered continuity, in any case. The only thing that has been firmly established is that "Erik Lehnsherr" is a false name, in X-MEN vol.2 #72.-Myst3 20:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, just because "Erik Lehnsherr" is a pseudonym, that doesn't mean that "Erik" is not his real first name.

"...don't know what his name was when he was a child." - I don't know for certain either which was why I was (and still am) asking if anyone out there who might actually have a reference that states this. - jc37 20:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Given that he changed his name in order to travel more freely within the Gypsy communtity to find his wife (and outrun the KGB) it is unlikely he used any of his real name. If Magda had married and run from an "Erik" , had she heard an "Erik" was looking for her, she would have bolted again no matter what his last name was. So it's most likely that none of it is his real name.::: - Kiplingkat 13:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Did he ever tell Xavier that it was just an alias? Because I've seen flashback panels where Xavier calls him Erik (namely that issue that the article grabs a scan from).

And of course the recap page of a comic isn't continuity, but it gives us a frame of reference as to Marvel's stance on the subject. WesleyDodds 21:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The recap page isn't continuity, and it only reflects the ignorance of an editor or writer, if it reflects error. If you want to check out Marvel's stance, please visit Marvel.com and the Magneto biography, or read the Official Handbook from 2005 that deals with the X-Men characters.

And no, there is no reference to any use of the name "Erik" before Xavier meets Magnus in Israel. Since I've read every Magneto appearance, I'm probably right, although I could of course be wrong. In comics that were written after the "Erik" name was introduced in 1992, there are stories that take place at the time Xavier meets Magneto in Israel, and thereafter, and yes Xavier is depicted as calling Magnus "Erik." And why not? "Erik Lehnsherr" is Magneto's adopted name. It's still the name he's known by in the Marvel Universe, and it's the name he probably used when he immigrated to Israel. But it's not his birth name. The question was asked, is this the name of his childhood, and it is not. Magneto is very specific about it -- he says he denied who he was, everything he family died for, when he took the false identity of "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte." It's a very strong statement -- to say, "I denied who I was..." when he took the name and false ethnicity. The name "Erik Lehnsherr" was invented by the forger Georg Odekirk. It is not his birth name. It's like the name "Stan Lee" -- or any other adopted name -- it's the only name Magneto goes by, it's the name on his legal papers (forged papers though they are). But it is not his original, birth name.-- Myst3 03:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Myst is right, "Erik Lehnsherr, Sinte Gypsy" is a forged identity he created while he was traveling through Eastern Europe looking for Magda who was of Gypsy decent. This has come from the Marvel offices. The entire introduction of the idea of Magneto as a Gypsy and not a Jew, which was damn near explicitly spelled out by Cockrum and Claremont through the entire 1970’s and 1980’s, was introduced in Magneto #0 in which Gabrielle Hallar gave a briefing on Magneto and dropped the Erik Lahser name and his Gypsy background on an unsuspecting fanbase.

It was a complete bombshell and Marvel later admitted it was an attempt to retool the character to avoid a backlash from the Jewish community because of the situation in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, that announcement came too late to get the name pulled from the movie scripts.

Also, Charles called Magneto "Magnus" in both flashback and current time until the "Erik Lehnsherr Sinte Gypsy" retcon of X-Men Unlimited #2 in 1993.

Given his Jewish background in the early 20th century, and the fact that he was among the first group of Jews to arrive at Auschwitz (see Uncanny X-Men #199), it is unlikely that his real name is Germanic in nature. It’s more likely he would be an “Itzak” than an “Erik”.- Kiplingkat 13:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Joseph

It just occurred to me that Xorn is not the first time people where confused as to who was actually Magneto. From what I understand, Joseph was originally meant to be a deaged Magneto (not just viewed as such by other characters, but actually intended as such by editorial), but this was changed. Can anyone verify this? WesleyDodds 06:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm currently reading xmen apperances from the mid-late 90's. While I don't have the refrences, I'm pretty sure I saw letter pages where Joseph is clearly described as Magneto survived and deaged 20 years.. but in '96-'98 somewhere we start seeing Magneto again as a seperate entity. I haven't read beyond that yet =) 69.138.81.129 20:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe that both the Xorn/Magneto/Xorn and the Joseph/Magneto are a case of retconning, but I have no proof of that so there you go WookMuff 14:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Joseph (deceased; See: The Magneto War) is a clone of Magneto, nothing more. Kaelesh (talk) 16:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe the original poster was asking how Joseph was originally meant to be a de-aged Magneto, even though as current continuity stands he's a clone. --DrBat (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Image

Shouldn't we get a more recent image? The one we have right now is kinda...umm...WAY outdated.

Does he look any different? Is it not representative of the character anymore? --Newt_ΨΦ 02:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

magnetos current status !

it is not known if magneto still has acssess to his powers. the editer persumed that because magnetos body was not found means that he has his powers again. this has not been confirmed by the publishers so i am editing the last bit of current continuity. any objections —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr noire (talk • contribs)

Not necessarily to your edits, no, but to the line they reference. I removed it and your edits because it's all speculative and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Also, please sign your comments. --Newt_ΨΦ 20:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Children

Just to make this clear, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch and Polaris are all confirmed as Magneto's children.

Zaladane claimed to be Polaris' sister (and Alex noted there was some resemblance) but that does not make her Magneto's daughter. She could be, or she may be the daughter of Lorna's mother by another man. So yeah, that's why I deleted the mention of her as Magneto's daughter. I don't think we should have her listed as "possibly Magneto's daughter" as she just claimed a connection to Polaris and despite being involved with Magneto she never claimed any relation to him. Cherries Jubilee 01:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Polaris is revealed to be Magneto's daughter in the 2000s. Wiki-newbie 16:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Could Zaladane be Anya the daughter of Magneto that was supposedly killed in a fire. this is just s a thought but it would mean she is the full sister of the Scarlet witch ( both of them being sorceresses) and Quicksilver. Making her another half sibling of Polaris.

We've seen Anya's burned body a couple times in the telling and retelling of the "Fire in the Night" and there is nothing in cannon to suggest that Zaladane is Anya. The hair color/type isn't even right and she is too young. If Zaladane is a another daughter of Magneto (and the evidence supporting that is rather sketchy), she probably was, like Polaris, another child "born on the wrong side of the blanket" as the old saying goes. (Magneto has always been something of a hound.) Also, it is interesting to note the Austin's retcon of Polaris' background goes against a lot of evidence built up that she is not his daughter. It is also very interesting that Magneto has never spoken on the matter on panel. At all. As he knew the results of the "secret blind genetic test" before Polaris did and announced it to the Genosha, it could have been a ploy to ensure her loyalty while he was paralyzed and practically powerless. I'd say the "possibly" should stand.KiplingKat 17:10, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Magneto's body

(if you find any language error, please forgive me)

Magneto (in comics) shouldn't have a Mr. Universe's body, because he's a very old guy and he doesn't have any slowed aging process. His true appearance would have to be the one shown in the X-Men's recent films. Brazilian Man 15:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That seems more a critique of the artists than the article. I'll cede your point, but that has little to do with the article. Please keep the discussion focused on the article. Thanks! --Psyphics_ΨΦ 16:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

If you recall, he was actually de-aged to infancy by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant. When he was later re-aged, it was to his prime, not to his actual chronological age. Given the way the time lines work in comics, he is still in his thirties in terms of his physical age. One could also speculate that, in addition, he does indeed have a slowed aging process compared to us Homo sapiens - many of these mutant characters have altered physiologies to support their primary powers. However, speculation aside, the point is that Magneto's body is supposed to be that of a fairly young man. None of this needs to be said in the article, but I hope it clears things up. Metamagician3000 23:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to add that since Magneto's power is channeled through his body/nervous system and he has difficulty using his power when he is injured, it has been in his best interest to stay in prime physical condition. How his power is used was discussed in X-Men (not Uncanny, just X-Men) 2 & 3 when he discovered that when he was living as in infant after Mutant Alpha regressed him, Moria McTaggart had attempted to correct a flaw in his genetic structure that created chemical imbalances in his brain whenever he used his power on huge scales, such as putting Asteroid M into the air or altering the Earth's magnetic field.

This is an intriguing aspect of the character that Marvel has introduced but never explored: That whenever Magneto uses his power on epic, planet altering scales, he becomes chemically imbalanced as if he is bi-polar.

~ KiplingKat

Merge discussion

Vote

1. Oppose Wiki-newbie 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
2. Oppose ThuranX 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
3. Oppose. --DrBat 04:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
4. Oppose Metamagician3000 04:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
5. Oppose Nejee16 21:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
6. Oppose Myst3 13:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments

• The film will get made, it's better to have an article now than later. Wiki-newbie 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
• Concur with W-n. ThuranX 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Hmm. Honestly, I forgot to put Magneto (comics) on my watchlist, so I missed out on this. I suggested a merge because there is no recent information about this film, according to the article. What I had intended was to merge the existing information at Magneto (film) and redirect the article to the appropriate subsection on this article. When the project becomes live, then the redirect can be fleshed back out to a full-fledged film article. Honestly, I'm disappointed that this was pretty much a straightforward vote without discussion; not in line with WP:POLL. --Erik (^talk/_contrib) @ 22:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Consensus

No merge. Wiki-newbie 21:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

just an idea

just an idea but what ya'll think of a section about magneto and xavier's relationship throughout their history 2gether.... Ancientanubis, talk 03:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Is Magneto a mass murderer?

Another edit reverted a category I added for Magneto: 'fictional mass-murderers'. The category is defined as such with "the killing of four or more people in a single incident". How does this not apply to Magneto with all his acts of terrorism and destruction against humanity?--CyberGhostface 23:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Give me a specific example. I can only think of Planet X, which was promptly retconned for being so horribly OOC.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Doop/magnetosecretwars.jpg

http://x-men.pl/summaries/excalibur_v2/graf/exr002a.jpg

In both cases Magneto shows extreme offense to being considered a mass-murderer. --DrBat 23:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

And Jigsaw repeatedly stresses that he's not a killer and that he despises murderers.--CyberGhostface 00:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Jigsaw is a poor, deluded old man who thinks putting people into death traps is a good way to help them appreciate their lives. --DrBat 00:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Whereas Magneto is a poor, deluded old man who believes he's justified in wiping out/and or controlling the human race because he's so egotistical as to believe that his race is superior.--CyberGhostface 00:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks for proving your POV towards Magneto's character. :)

Magneto believes that mutants being in control is the only way to prevent the humans from trying to wipe them out. That's pessimistic, not deluded. --DrBat 00:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

If you believe that adding the category is a sign of POV because I dislike Magneto, then you're mistaken. I also added the category to Ben Linus, a character I like very much. Whether I like Magneto or not has NOTHING to do with the fact that he is a mass murderer.--CyberGhostface 00:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

No, he is not. You have yet to give any specific examples. Ben deliberately gassed all the people in the town; his being a mass-murderer is not debatable.

And I know your opinions on Magneto's character; you are biased against him. --DrBat 00:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Off the top of my head; sinking the submarine, causing the mountain to fall, the planet-wide EMP that caused all the planes and hospital machinery to stop.--CyberGhostface 00:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

First two cases were in direct response to the humans trying to kill him.

Third case; it's not his fault the UN created the "Magneto Protocols," preventing him from going back to Earth. It's not like he intentionally did it to hurt people; that the was the only way to get back to Earth. --DrBat 00:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

CyberGhostFace, there are two issues here. One, is your obvious ignorance of the character's history. I note one or two comic book message boards where you've tried to insert this discussion. It seems to me you're somewhat obsessive about labelling this character a "mass murderer." You really don't have any context for the character's actions. What is more telling, is the history of the character is readily available, and you repeatedly state the most superficial, false, and cliched description "a poor deluded old man" to prove your point. Magneto is not old, he is not deluded, and he grabed on to the "mutants are superior" idea after Xavier himself introduced it to him, as a kind of psychological anchor and extreme compensation for his past dehumanization by the Nazis. The second issue, is the definition of "mass murderer" using the criteria (as you report) of "four or more people." By that criteria, Wolverine is a mass murderer, Scott Summers is a mass murderer, Xavier is a mass murderer, Rogue is now a mass murderer. I could go on and on. Context, motivation, and characterization all need to be considered.Myst3 14:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I called him a deluded old man in response to something DrBat said that pissed me off. I don't *really* consider him to be deluded. And maybe Wolverine IS a mass murderer...ever think of that? If the glove fits... As for the comic boards I asked (and it was only one, I don't know where you got two from)...maybe that has something to do with this article? I was asking others to verify the information. And so far, the people who have responded said yes. And the criteria for mass-murderer is based on Wikipedia's official standards at Category:Fictional_mass_murderers.--CyberGhostface 15:38, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

What a stupid arguement. Magneto murdered masses of people... magneto is fictional... I'm with you CGF. Many people claim that 9/11 was the result of agressive American foreign policy and globalization destroying the way of life of peoples in the middle east... whether that is true or not, that doesn't make it a justifiable act of self defence. I loved magneto, don't get me wrong (I loved him until the joseph retcon, then it was just one lame plot after another, with the exception of House of M), but that doesn't make him less of a mass murderer. WookMuff 14:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Magneto is not a murderer since he is fictious, you know who is a murderer though? Chris Benoit. Thank you.

So I guess Freddy Krueger isn't a murderer? Since he's fictional, that must make him exempt from the profiling.--CyberGhostface 01:21, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, Magneto is not, nor has he ever been, genocidal. While he has held goals of conquest in the past, it has never been his goal to eliminate the human species. Ever. He has ruled two countries (Santo Marco and Genosha) and while he did so with an iron fist, he never even fostered segregation in those countries, let alone created Progroms. Heck, in Genosha he had humans on his advisory staff. However, there is a legitimate argument for him being termed a mass murderer. Oddly though, it is not from the EMP incident in Fatal Attractions or any of the incidents mentioned above. In that storyline the U.N. set up a blockcade against Magneto, effectively declaring war. Ergo, everything he did after that falls under the category of "Acts of War", much like his sinking of the Russian submarine in Uncanny #150, or pulling the mountain filled with rebelling Magistrate factionists in Magneto: Dark Seduction. In all of those instances there was a declared state of war. So unless you want to call the United States mass murders for dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, those acts do not qualify him as a mass murder.

However, what does qualify him as a mass murder took place much, much earlier. In Vinnistia. As understandable as it was, as sympathetic as he was in the moment, his explosive outburst and killing of the crowd in Vinnistia after his daughter's death does qualify him as a mass murder. During the Silver Age he also attempted, but was unsuccessful, to set of a couple nuclear bombs. So as much as I love the character, the description of mass murder does have validity. --KiplingKat 10:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Polish?

Is this guy Polish? Most Likely. I'm just looking for comformation and I'll add it—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.119.145.117 (talk) 18:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

He's not. Go to this link and read the second item.--CyberGhostface 23:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

In an issue of New Mutants, he states "An ill wind is coming ... they are registering mutants ... like they once registered my people in Poland ...! Who knows what horrors await us." --DrBat 20:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but was that the real Magnus talking, or or was he just sticking true to his Eric Magnus Lensherr false identity... or perhaps it was an early appearance of Kuan-Yin Xorn, being manipulated by Sublime who as we all know has been present in all life since the beginning of time, starting in 2001... Sorry, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. At various times Magneto has been identified as both a Jew and a gypsy, but with the false identity debacle in the late 90's... who can say what is real and what is fake in current continuity. WookMuff 14:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

A. Magneto wasn't using the Eirk Lehnsherr I.D. at that point. B. In New Mutants #61 he was thinking to himself. Not talking to anyone. Unless he has a MPD, his mixing up his fake identity with his real one makes no sense. C. "Erik Lehnsherr" is a German name, not a Polish one. So he wouldn't be mixing up the fake and real identities in the first place.

He's a Polish Jew.--KiplingKat 11:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Magneto is a Jewish Holocaust survivor. And yes, it was the real Magnus talking. He was kneeling at the foot of Doug Ramsey's body, and talking to us, the reader, outloud. You are being facitious about the Xorn thing, and it's not very funny, in my opinion. Kuan Yin Xorn was not Magneto, but only pretending to be Magnus. Which you know, I'm sure. Magneto is not a gypsy ... as revealed in X-MEN #72, he took the false name "Erik Lehnsherr" and the false ethnicity of a gypsy in order to search for his wife and hide from the KGB. The only time he was identified as a "gypsy" was by Gabrielle Haller in her speech to an audience at an American university; she was not only using fake and falsified identification as her source, but since we now know she found this stuff in a file on Georg Odekirk the forger amongst Mossad's database, we can also presume she as well as Mossad knew perfectly well Magneto's true Jewish identity. Her motivation as the Israeli ambassador to Great Britain, as well as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, as well as an old friend of Magnus', to help cover up his true identity is pretty high. In any case, Magneto is real in EXCALIBUR vol. 3, and that was the real deal in HOUSE OF M. As of now, his whereabouts are unknown. His status vis-a-vis his powers is unknown. What is known is that he is a Jewish survivor of Aushchwitz who met Charles Xavier in Israel 25 years or so ago. It is also highly likely he's a Polish Jewish Holocaust survivor, given all the evidence. Please check out the links at the bottom of the article.

In the real world, there are and have been indeed constant attempts to remove Magneto's Jewish Holocaust history, because certain writers and editors were either narrow-minded Judeophobic bigots, or they were afraid of political correctness; i.e., having a villain be Jewish. The bigots to this day don't want this powerful, important, and charismatic character to be Jewish; they can go ballistic at the very suggestion someone at Marvel wants to write the words "Jewish" and "Magneto" in the same sentence. It is wrong and pitiful for anyone working for Marvel to still think this way, it will always be wrong. It isn't a joke -- it's prejudice and bigotry. The Marvel of Dan Buckley and Joe Quesada, as far as I know, stands against this kind of anti-Semitic treatment of one of their preeminent Jewish characters. So, again, yes, Magneto is a Jewish and Polish Holocaust survivor. We don't know his real name. We don't know where exactly in Poland he was born, or even if he was born there. He could have been born to Polish Jewish parents in Germany. All this needs to be revealed, or perhaps not. But these kinds of revelations add to and enhance Magneto's history and Jewish identity, they don't undermine it.Myst3 01:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this isn't the forum for your soapbox. The gypsy background was a retcon, the fake identity was a reretcon, "Kuan Yin Xorn was not Magneto" was a weak retcon of a weaker story. Most everything that has happened to him since Joseph was retconned as an Alien-tech clone is lame. Get over it and yourselfWookMuff 03:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

WookMuff, there is no need to get personal. This was a discussion of whether or not Magneto is Polish. This really isn't a "forum" at all, and your speculations or opinions about Joseph or Xorn don't pertain to this topic. Your general opinion that everything that has happened to Magneto in the last few years is "lame" is more appropriate for a comic book message board, not a Wikipedia article discussion page. You might want to edit the above to make your statements about the retcons, or attempted retcons, without the personal sniping. I did get off-topic somewhat myself, but I was trying to support the contention that Magneto is most likely a Polish Jewish character.Myst3 05:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, but you lack perspective about the character. Both your arguments about Magneto's ethnicity and above about the question of being a mass murderer show you are deeply passionate about the character, but also that you lack the ability to form an NPOV. Also, my comments regarding Magneto's 6 years of lameness may be personal comments, but my discussion about retcons, which those changes really are a very good example, is very much in keeping with an the talk page of an article about magneto. Also, I don't know if you were segueing or really didn't understand, but I used forum in an older meaning, not in its internet meaning, as in the setting or atmosphere wherein a discussion takes place, which comes from its original meaning in english... umm... somewhere a discussion takes place... you get what I mean. As for the personal, what I meant is... He is a comic book, cartoon, and movie character. Changing his ethnicity to gypsy doesn't make the creators in the 80's any more antisemetic than having a Jewish Villain does. I am not saying people at marvel aren't anti-semetic, I am just saying that they aren't NECESSARILY WookMuff 09:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

My Apologies, some of the comments I had attributed to you in forming the above conclusion were in fact by DrBat, in the discussion of Magneto as Mass Murderer. I still think you are too invested in the character to be objective, but I don't necessarily think that you are unable to form NPOV. Sorry about that. WookMuff 09:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

It's complicated, but CyberGhostface and I know each other, so it was more than just the character. He'll like certain characters who I think are horrible people, and vice versa.

And while I do like the character, if it was definite that he was a mass-murderer I wouldn't argue the point. I like Black Adam a lot, yet I don't deny he's a mass-murderer. Ect, ect. --DrBat 02:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Magneto-20051029024916677.jpg

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Cosmic Spider-Man

Despite Cosmic Spider-Man's vast powers their battle is actually inconclusive (probably the only one that Cosmic Spider-Man does not win outright, although I haven't checked the others). Also, this is a relatively minor incident during the relevant storyline, though it's a showcase for their respective powers: Magneto and Cosmic Spider-Man fight, perform great feats against each other, and go their separate ways, neither having decisively triumphed over the other, though we do see that Cosmic Spider-Man's level of power even exceeds Magneto's. Rather than explain this unnecessary detail, I've deleted the relevant words from an overly long article. The focus on the Red Skull confrontation is what really matters at this point of Magneto's career. Metamagician3000 (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Physics

I take it that the theory of electromagnetism wasn't invented when the X-men were created? I didn't know James Clerk Maxwell was born after Marvel comics. Maybe they didn't wan't to deal with the theory that Magneto would have to generate a large electrical field in his body to create his magnetism. The only way I can imagine that he could be able to produce a varying field is if his blood was charged, and the strength of the electric field was varied by the rate at which his heart pumps. Though I think magneto's powers are structured mostly around mangetic monopoles (which generally speaking can't exist). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.48.149 (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Name based on Nazi torture device?

I was reading an article that claims Nazis frequently tortured their victims with a magneto engine. Have Lee or Kirby (or any reputable comics historian) ever claimed that the character was named after this? 24.60.166.137 (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

No. I've never heard anyone connect Magneto's name to a Nazi torture device.

I assumed it was just because his powers were magnetic. --DrBat (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Main Article -- Ethnicity

DCincarnate, we went through this discussion a couple of years ago, and then last year again. Magneto's identity as a Jewish Holocaust survivor is stated in the introduction to the character. And then it really doesn't fit to put the story of the ethnicity in "Publication History." The history of the character and how he took the false identity of "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte Gypsy" is described in the "History" section. Someone came up with the very good idea of putting the background story in the "Ethnicity" section. It's an excellent compromise. Also, the ethnicity in other media section is very helpful. You've come in and chopped up the Magneto article without coming here first to discuss your opinions and actions. I believe that the article was balanced, and we had reached a compromise with all concerned for a long time. The "Ethnicity" section is a good place for the background story of the "Erik Lehnsherr" false identity.Myst3 (talk) 21:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Even if you do not like to say - Magneto is Jewish origin (otherwise would he and his parents landed in concentration camps). So what? Not all Jews are evil, that is proved but they are only human. If you nationsozialismus because foreigners as no longer pose a rogue we would have expected with Sadam Hussan and Malcolm X is a problem, right? If you are based: Magneto is certainly not the gläubigste Jew. His interest lies solely mutants - people and their religious conflicts are secondary to him, he hates so they. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.95.168 (talk) 20:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Xmen1.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 08:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

"Magneto Was Right"

This is almost certainly an allusion to Meir Kahane. Of course, my observation is just WP:OR at this point.--Pharos (talk) 01:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Possibly?

From the edit history Ethnicity: Citation not needed because of the word "possibly" based on many private letters, emails, chats, public posts not availabe now.) I'm a tad confused but if we're talking about 'possibly', then we are now in the realm of original research, which is frowned upon in Wikipedia. Lots42 (talk) 02:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Your comment confuses me. What exactly are you talking about? The word "possibly" means exactly that. Based on numerous posts, letters, chats, and comments with creators and editors throughout the years, like Ben Raab and Scott Lobdell, and other people who were involved at Marvel at the time, but without exact confirmation from Bob Harras himself, or his EinC in 1992, Tom DeFalco. How is that "original research?" It's reportage. And I might add, a HIGHLY POSSIBLE and accurate reportage. The word "possibly" has never denoted "original research" in my experience. On the contrary, it means something is highly possible but not proven. In recounting "original reserach" one would be using more precise statistical language, stating probabilities.Myst3 (talk) 15:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Magneto (Hunk Larken)

I noticed users DrBat and Myst3 are trying to erase information about Hunk Larsen, probably because the character is not related with Erik Lehnsherr.

Two points: - The article about Hunk Larken is written in the very same way of many other not related characters found in Wikipedia (e.g. Spider-Woman, Ka-zar and Powerhouse (comics)). If you want to keep Magneto's subject exclusive for Erik Lehnsherr, the article's name should be changed to Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr). - The information that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created an early version of Magneto, even not related to the modern character is relevant. And its also curious that the first character had an origin very similar to the Fantastic Four origin.Bios106037 (talk) , 21 July 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Your examples of other characters with the same name aren't comparable. Hunk Larsen only appeared in one issue. He's not a relevant character. --DrBat (talk) 23:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the word you're looking for is non-notable. 67.162.108.96 (talk) 23:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

"Hunk Larken" is non-notable and irrelevant to the biography and publishing history of the Marvel comic book character Magneto. Attempts to insert this unrelated material border on article sabotage, in my opinion. We were told that a "Trivia" section is not good form in Wikipedia articles, but that kind of information belongs in a "Trivia" section, with a link to the actual Wikipedia article about Atlas Comics' "Magnetor" aka "Hunk Larken" aka "Magneto." Myst3 (talk) 03:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I accept DrBat arguments, they seem reasonable enough to me. About Myst3 response, it's ok to express personal convictions. But, someone having a differing point of view cannot reasonably be considered an attack on yours and your response should be measured by that fact. Accusing someone of sabotage doesn't help in any way. Bios106037 (talk) 20:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

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Sources for Powers & Abilities

This section of the article cites no sources or gives credit to any of the SPECTACULAR claims posted as "fact." Cannon strictly states that Magento has the ability to generate and manipulate magnetic fields (not to be confused with electromagnetism or electromagnetic radiation).63.249.98.216 (talk) 01:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint, but CANNON states that Magneto has control over all electromagnetic energies:

~ Manipulating metal: Well, all the time. The most spectacular demonstration of this came in New Mutants (Vol.1) #51 when Magneto took an abandoned cruise ship from miles offshore and created a smooth breakwater out of it in minutes. In Uncanny X-Men #91, he also lifted a cargo ship. He also can pull iron particles from the air to create objects, such as encasing Banshee in a metal shealth in Uncanny #104, or creating a comb for the Wasp in Secret Wars I.

~ Assembling highly complex machinery within seconds (Uncanny X-men #150)

~ Manipulating magnetic energy (All the time)

~ Manipulating non-metallic objects, such wood, stone, weapons grade ceramics, or plastics. (Classic X-Men #12, Uncanny X-Men #112, New Mutants Vol. 1 #40, Uncanny X-Men #275, X-Men Vol. 2 #2, Excalibur Vol. 3 #14)

~ Manipulating organic objects like people: (Uncanny X-Men #1, Uncanny X-Men #112, Uncanny X-Men #200, Magneto: Dark Seduction #4)

~ Disrupting a person's nervous system (Uncanny X-Men #304, X-Men Vol. 2 #72)

~ Ripping people in half: (X-Men Vol. 2 #110)

~ Manipulating the iron in the blood (X-Force #25)

~ Manipulating matter on a subatomic scale. (X-Men Vol. 2 #87, Uncanny X-Men #212, Classic X-Men #19)

~ Manipulating electricity (Uncanny X-Men #104, Uncanny X-Men #150)

~ Generating electricity (Uncanny X-Men #43, Uncanny X-Men #91, Uncanny X-Men #112, Uncanny X-Men #150, New Mutants Vol. 1 #40)

~ Reprogramming software (Excalibur Vol.3 #4)

~ Generating an EMP (X-Men Vol. 2 #25, Excalibur Vol. 3 #4)

~ Generating undefined energy pulse "akin to the shockwave of a nuclear explosion" (Classic X-Men #12/Excalibur Vol. 3 #9,)

~ Strong magnetic shields (Secret Wars #5, New Mutants Vol. 1 #40, X-Men vs. Avengers #2)

~ Taken punches from enhanced strength beings like Colossus and the Submariner and kept fighting probably due to a close contact magnetic shield (Uncanny X-Men #113, New Mutants #40)

~ Manipulating heat (Uncanny X-Men #104)

~ Manipulating light (Vision and Scarlet Witch miniseries Vol.1 #4, Excalibur Vol. 3 # 4)

~ Deflecting the gamma rays & x-rays in nuclear radiation (X-Men Vol. 2 #1, X-Men Vol. 2 #86)

~ Magnetic Resonance Imaging (Excalibur Vol. 3 # 4)

~ Affecting objects thousands of miles away (Uncanny X-Men #150)

~ Creating a “magnetic vortex” to manipulate the atmosphere (Uncanny X-Men #201, X-Men Vol. 2 #86 )

~ Pulling a satellite from orbit (Magneto Rex #2)

~ Manipulating the entire planetary EM sphere (Uncanny X-Men #150, X-Men Vol. 2 #86)

~ Manipulating other planetary EM spheres (Avengers # 47, Secret Wars I)

~ Generating traversable wormholes (Excalibur Vol. 3 #7/8, Avengers Disassembled)

~ Altering the Earth’s crust (w/o mechanical aid) (X-Men Vol. 2 #1/ X-Men Vol. 2 #96, Magneto Dark Seduction #4)

~ Traveling in space (X-Men Vol. 2 #1, Avengers #47)

~ Sensing objects and attacks he cannot see. (X-Men Vol. 2 #2)

~ Reflecting Banshee's sonic scream back at him by creating harmonics in surrounding metal (Uncanny X-Men #112)

~ Manipulating Nightcrawler’s Teleports (Uncanny X-Men Annual #10)

~ Overcoming all the anti-Magneto gimmicks in Iron Man's Suit (Magneto: Dark Seduction #4)

~ Repelling Thor’s Hammer (Journey Into Mystery #109, X-Men Vs. Avengers # 2)

~ Manipulating Phoenix Force energy (Uncanny X-Men #112)

~ Partial discorporation (Uncanny X-Men #275, X-Men Vol. 2 #3, X-Men Vol. 2 #87)

~ Astral travel (Uncanny X-Men #6, Marvel Fanfare #33)

~ Telepathic sensitivity (New Mutants Vol. 1 #38)

~ Deflecting telepathic intrusion and attacks. (New Mutants Vol. 1 #35, X-Men Vol. 2 #25)

~ Enhanced Reaction Time / Plucking Northstar out of the air with his hand (X-Men Vol. 2 #113)

~ Manipulating Gravity (New Mutants #35)

~ Transforming clothes into body armor/magic metal costume trick (Uncanny X-Men #150, Uncanny X-Men #210, Uncanny X-Men #275, New Mutants Vol. 1 #52).

(KiplingKat) 01:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Magneto: Testament revelations

I've edited the text to include the revelations from Magneto: Testament #1. As the series progresses (there will be five books in all), we will make more changes to the wiki Magneto biography, I'm sure. We know now Mags' real name, or birth name, was Max Eisenhardt, and he is 9 years old when the series opens in September of 1935. So he was born either in late 1925 or 1926. His father's name is Jakob Eisenhardt. His mother's name remains unrevealed, and his sister's name is Ruth Eisenhardt. His paternal uncle is Erich Eisenhardt. Magda is in Germany, and young Max meets her before the war starts. The Gypsies were sent to work camps, given identity cards and work permits, and ordered to work menial jobs in Berlin especially, in the months leading up to the Berlin Olympics. The German Gypsies were the Sinti, and given that Magneto took the false identity of a Sinti Gypsy in order to search for Magda, it looks fairly overwhelming that Magda is the Sinti Gypsy. The Sinti are considered distinct from the general Roma designation, these days. Although all were considered "Gypsies" by the Nazis. I've also added some references, especially to Magneto: Testament #1, which really cements many of the statements in the first paragraph of Magneto's fictional biography. Myst3 (talk) 20:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow, he's over 80? :) But then, I guess he's been aged and de-aged a lot over time, so I can buy it. 67.173.11.90 (talk) 20:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I mentioned this in a later discussion but is this considered canon? It's published under the Marvel Knights imprint and there are numerous Marvel Knights mini-series that are obviously non-canon (Silver Surfer: Requiem, Captain America: The Chosen, and Spider-Man: With Great Power... just to name a few). What makes this one any different? Why should this one be considered canon?--BigBang616 (talk) 19:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Magneto Testament/Real Name

I've assumed over the last few years that most if not all of the mini-series produced under the Marvel Knights imprint (which X-Men: Magneto Testament was) were considered non-canon (i.e Spider-Man: With Great Power..., Captain America: The Chosen, and Silver Surfer: Requiem). When X-Men: Magneto Testament came out I assumed that this was likewise considered non-canon. Magneto's real name is listed as the Max Eisenhardt on his page (revealed in the book's first issue). Is X-Men: Magneto Testament considered canon even though the previously mentioned Marvel Knights publications are considered non-canon? Shouldn't this series likewise be considered non-canon and, therefore, his real name isn't necessarily Max Eisenhardt? Also, I feel it should be mentioned that Marvel.com has Magneto's real name listed as Unrevealed on his bio page.--BigBang616 (talk) 08:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The X-Men: Magneto Testament was written as an "in-cannon" story, part of the "origins" line that followed several characters. All of them were one-shots, but Magneto's story was chosen to be an arc. At least that's what I think. See this interview with Greg Pak if helpful. --RossF18 (talk) 19:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. You've been very helpful. I appreciate you answering my question.--BigBang616 (talk) 21:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Ethnicity Section

Uncanny X-Men vol. 1, #150 (August 1981), established Magneto as a Jewish Holocaust survivor. While he was searching for his wife Magda, a Sinti Gypsy, Magneto maintained a cover identity as a Sinti Gypsy. This created confusion amongst some readers, as to his heritage, until it was authoritatively confirmed in Magneto: New Testament that he is, in fact, Jewish.

Magneto's Eastern European heritage was loosely hinted in the 1992 animated adaptation of the X-Men, though direct references to the Holocaust and his Jewish heritage were excluded. The elements of his personality which were originally drawn from this section of his past were instead explained as being the result of a war that overtook his country (which was never named), when he was an adult. In the 2000 animated series X-Men: Evolution, the general theme of Magneto's original past was restored, but he is not specifically referenced as being Jewish or a Holocaust survivor. His incarceration in a Nazi death camp is partially retained, though it is referred to as being a POW camp. His heritage and Holocaust experiences were carried over in full for the film adaptations. In the feature film, X-Men, however, Magneto's survival of the Holocaust is directly addressed as the main motivation behind his actions.

References

I made the changes in regards to the Magneto Testament book, while I removed the "Ethnicity" section of the article as its redundant and no longer needed in light of the information that Magneto Testament provides. (Eman007) 22:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

No changed were agreed to, as far as I understand the history. Nothing in our discussion regarding Magneto Testament could have prompted one to believe that we were discussing deleting the "Ethnicity" section. The section is not redundant in my opinion and is needed because the Magneto has an over 40 year old history and the Magneto Testament is a recent addition to the canon. This means that while we now have a verification of Magneto's ethnicity, the Ethnicity section should be adjusted to reflect the over 40 years of confusion in regards to Magneto's heritage. At least that's my take.--RossF18 (talk) 04:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Removed it again. To have a "should be adjusted to reflect the over 40 years of confusion in regards to Magneto's heritage." is very redundant at best, and ridiculous and pointless at worst. If Magneto: testament confirmed his ancestry, that of a German Jew, NOT Eastern European or anything else, then the case rests and there is no confusion or debate over what Magneto is and should be, just as much as the Wolverine Origins did for Wolverine. We need to return this article back to quality standards and featured. Having redundant sections is not the way about it. (Eman007) 22:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you're confusing the existence of the debate for 40 years and its resolution for there not being a debate period. I will say that I'd like to see the section merged into the early life/publication history of the article, but the confusion about Magneto's heritage is important in the development of the character by the writers and is important to be chronicled in the publication history section. Just because there is no longer a controversy as to Magneto's heritage, doesn't mean that there hasn't been one for over 40 years. I fail to see what is redundant about that. Yes, we now know that Magneto is a Jew from Germany and his fictional biography section should include that (although most FA articles do not have a fictional bio section). However, his bio section reflecting the alleviation of any doubt does not preclude the publication history section from mentioning that for 40 years of being published, Magneto's heritage was at issue. Please discuss and wait for a consensus before deletions as deletions solely per your opinion are not justified. Although I was not the one to revert your deletions the second time as I do not believe in revert wars, please know that a consensus must be reached. --RossF18 (talk) 20:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

For starters you are lying. It says that you were the very last one that undid it, not the one from the random IP Address which did it two days ago. Secondly, there was a debate and controversy for years too over Wolverine's identity until it was finally reveled in which case the "ethnicity" section in his article was removed as well as were for other comic characters. In that regard there isn't anything to discuss, and until there are tags calling for discussing or merge up to which there aren't. Fact is as well, this article needs some major works, copy editing, revision, and a general slimming down. Whoever is reverting, does not seem to want to discuss and wants to play the revert war game. Fine with me until you grow and discuss as requested and provide a valid reason. I have mine. Where is yours? (Eman007) 21:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

If you're going to reply to my posts, please be careful to actually read them. Your deletions have been reverted 3 times. I was the first and the third. There was also the second revert that wasn't done by me. I was all set to have a discussion with you, but you ignored any discussion and started deleting again, I was forced to preserve the article until consensus can be reached. Thus, no one was lying, except the person who doesn't take care to read carefully. Secondly, I have provided a valid reason - that the ethnicity was a big part of Magneto's character - to a point much greater than Wolverine. You're comparing apples and oranges. We didn't know Wolverine's origins - i.e., how he came to be a mutant, who his mother was, etc., but he was always Canadian, unlike Magneto, who was thought either a Gypsy or a Jew and his country of birth was also unknown. Wolverine was always Canadian, we just didn't know the story of his birth, not his ethnicity. When we found out his origins, the section about the debate as to his origins was indeed deleted, but the publication section should note that for years, his origins were unknown. If it doesn't, that's more of the problem with Wolverine's article, which is hardly perfect, than a reason to delete an entire section unilateraily, as User:Eman007 seems to like to do. Major work - yes, please help out by merging the two sections and doing other editing. But editing doesn't equal wholesale deletion of sections without discussion. For someone who seems to accuse others of lacking arguments, User:Eman007 has no problem with insults, claiming that there is nothing to discuss, and repeating the same argument over and over again without considering any one else's points. Consensus must be built before deletions, especially ones of referenced material.--RossF18 (talk) 00:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You said on 20:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC): "Although I was not the one to revert your deletions the second time as I do not believe in revert wars, please know that a consensus must be reached."

The page indeed shows: Revision history of Magneto (comics):

1. (cur) (prev) 01:03, 6 November 2009 Eman007 (talk | contribs) m (47,096 bytes) (undo)
2. (cur) (prev) 00:03, 6 November 2009 RossF18 (talk | contribs) (49,013 bytes) (Undid revision 324152418 by Eman007 vandalism. Again, please discuss before wholesale deletions. Reverts are bad, but blind deletions are also.) (undo)
3. (cur) (prev) 21:18, 5 November 2009 Eman007 (talk | contribs) m (47,096 bytes) (undo)
4. (cur) (prev) 20:36, 5 November 2009 RossF18 (talk | contribs) (49,013 bytes) (Undid revision 324144252 by Eman007 (talk) please see talk page and stop unilateral deletions without a consensus, per Wiki policies) (undo)
5. (cur) (prev) 20:31, 5 November 2009 Eman007 (talk | contribs) m (47,096 bytes) (undo)
6. (cur) (prev) 20:31, 5 November 2009 Eman007 (talk | contribs) m (47,096 bytes) (undo)
7. (cur) (prev) 13:36, 4 November 2009 24.148.0.83 (talk) (49,013 bytes) (rvt - unexplained removal) (undo)
8. (cur) (prev) 07:02, 4 November 2009 Eman007 (talk | contribs) m (47,096 bytes) (undo)
9. (cur) (prev) 20:01, 3 November 2009 RossF18 (talk | contribs) (49,013 bytes) (→Ethnicity) (undo)
10. (cur) (prev) 04:31, 3 November 2009 RossF18 (talk | contribs) (48,816 bytes) (Undid revision 323425445 by Eman007 (talk) no removal of entire section was discussed or agreed to. Please see talk page.) (undo)

Showing you as indeed the culprit and a liar. Furthermore, you called my reedits "vandalism" with no proof or evidence.

Also, please point out where I made an "insult" including the exact time and comments made. Further proving his dishonesty.

Furthermore, it was not a unilateral revision. I provided valid reasoning for it and still do. As far as Wolverine is concerned, his origins and ethnicity was also unknown as well and that Canada was his adopted and assumed homeland as his origins were unknown, even to himself the before the Weapon X program. It was the Origin series that finally confirmed he was Canadian as much that Magneto: Testament finally confirm that Magneto is neither Gypsy or Eastern European, but a Jew from Germany.

You are looking for a consensus. For and by whom? Where and why are they not speaking then?

Compounding your dishonesty further, you seem to want a revision war. So be it until this "consensus" you speak of comes in. Then again, you have no qualms lying even with mountains of evidence proving otherwise. 01:03, 6 November 2009 Eman007

Some observations

1. At this point it's pretty clear that there is an edit war going on.
2. There is a concern about IP involvement in it. As such, the page has been semi-protected for a week.
3. If material has been incorporated into the Fictional bio, it is redundant and gives undo weight to repeat that information in its own section.
4. That said it is also misleading to not provide some form of information within the text of the article that shows the character's ethnicity, as well as other details of its in story origins, were added after the fact.
5. Now, it would be a good thing if this was hashed out constructively, without chunks taken out of WP:AGF and WP:CIVILITY, here on the talk page before any more edits to the contentious section(s) are done on the article.

- J Greb (talk) 01:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

J Greb said: "That said it is also misleading to not provide some form of information within the text of the article that shows the character's ethnicity, as well as other details of its in story origins, we added after the fact."

I will address that excellent point you make which ties into the justification for removing the "Ethnicity" section on the basis of redundancy. His ethnicity is covered in his biography that I also recently updated and copyedited:

Fictional character biography "Magneto was born Max Eisenhardt in the late 1920s to a middle class German Jewish family who's father, Jakob Eisenhardt was a highly decorated World War I veteran. [1] Following the Nazi rise to power, kristalnacht, and the passing of the Nuremberg Laws, in 1939 Max and his family fled to Poland where they were captured during the German invasion of Poland and sent to the Warsaw Ghetto. [1][13] Max and his family escape the Ghetto, only to be betrayed and captured again. He and his family were executed and buried in a mass grave, but Max survived possibly due to the manifestation of his powers. Escaping from the mass grave, he is ultimately captured yet again [14] and sent to Auschwitz, where he eventually becomes a Sonderkommando.[14][15][16] While at Auschwitz, Eisenhardt reunites with a Roma girl named Magda, with whom he had fallen in love when he was younger, and with whom he escapes the prison camp during the October 7th 1944 revolt. Following the war, he and Magda move to the Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia, and adopts the name "Magnus" and drops Max Eisenhardt. Magda and Mangus have a daughter named Anya, and live happily until one night when a rioting mob burned their home down with Anya still inside. Enraged at the mob preventing him from rescuing Anya, the young Magneto's powers manifest uncontrollably, killing the mob and destroying a part of the city. Magda, terrified at Magneto's power, leaves him and discovered months later she is pregnant again, giving birth to the mutant twins Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. Wanted by the authorities for the deaths and destruction in Vinnytsia, while searching for Magda, Magnus paid a forger George Odekirk, to create the cover identity of "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte gypsy" for him."

Now contrast this with the "Ethnicity" section I removed.

"Ethnicity"

Uncanny X-Men vol. 1, #150 (August 1981), established Magneto as a Jewish Holocaust survivor. While he was searching for his wife Magda, a Sinti Gypsy, Magneto maintained a cover identity as a Sinti Gypsy.[7] This created confusion amongst some readers, as to his heritage,[44] until it was authoritatively confirmed in Magneto: New Testament that he is, in fact, Jewish.[1][45][46]

Magneto's Eastern European heritage was loosely hinted in the 1992 animated adaptation of the X-Men, though direct references to the Holocaust and his Jewish heritage were excluded. The elements of his personality which were originally drawn from this section of his past were instead explained as being the result of a war that overtook his country (which was never named), when he was an adult. In the 2000 animated series X-Men: Evolution, the general theme of Magneto's original past was restored, but he is not specifically referenced as being Jewish or a Holocaust survivor. His incarceration in a Nazi death camp is partially retained, though it is referred to as being a POW camp. His heritage and Holocaust experiences were carried over in full for the film adaptations. In the feature film, X-Men, however, Magneto's survival of the Holocaust is directly addressed as the main motivation behind his actions."

The character biography earlier in the article already states that he is: 1. A Jew and a Holocaust Survivor. 2. The recently updated canon from Marvel that confirms that he never "searched for his wife" or "maintained a cover identity to find her" and that he adopted the cover identity of "The Snite/Sinti Gypsy" AFTER his wife died which had been covered earlier in the article in the Character Bio thus making it even contradictory and factually incorrect.

This section also makes a fact claim "Magneto's Eastern European heritage", to which, again, the earlier in the article character bio which is based on the recently updated canon that Magneto is not from Eastern Europe at all, but is actually German, born and raised.

Further going into repetition and redundancy the line "In the feature film, X-Men, however, Magneto's survival of the Holocaust is directly addressed as the main motivation behind his actions." should be instead in the "Magneto in other media article" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_in_other_media which is where all movie references and characterizations are. This section of the paragraph should be moved over to that particular article and not left on his main page.

Therefore, in the simplest, my point has been made. That whole "Ethnicity" section either repeats what was already stated in the character bio, or even factually incorrect as he did not "search for his wife" or create a false identity to find her. Or stating connections to his characterization on the films and TV shows, which have their own article on wikipedia.

My point also again: What is the point of repeating twice in the article in two different sections that he survived the Holocaust? Or that he adopted a fake persona? Exactly what I mean: Redundancy and my justification of removing that entire section and trimming this article down to just basic information and background and getting it back to featured status again.

- Eman007 (talk) 01:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

There is only so much banging against a brick wall I'm willing to do, so I'll leave you to possess this article Eman007 if you'd like it with these comments. Your insult was in the post previous to my pointing out your insult, i.e., when you mentioned that you felt that I needed to, quote "until you grow." I assure you, I'm all grown up and to suggest otherwise is condescending and insulting. Furthemore, as you've noted in your own post, your revert was only 4 minutes before I've posted my comments on the talk page. Given that I usually put more effort into something than just 4 minutes, Good Faith would have prompted you to assume that I was writing while you were reverting and my revert was only after I've posted a reply on the discussion page only to find you've taken upon yourself to revert without consensus. Something you've yet to address. As J Greb points out, this has now become a revert war, and to avoid it, I'll withdraw given that there is nothing I can say that will convince you. We'll just have to wait for a third party. You've also twisted J Greb's comments to serve your purpose. While I'll let J Greb reply on his own, if he's willing, but he specifically said that that "...as well as other details of its in story origins, we added after the fact." You've ignored that part of his statement and focused on the part of the sentence that you've interpreted to support your point of view. If Ethnicity section is deleted, which I do not have a problem with - it will have to merged with the publication history section to note that for 40 years of publishing, Magneto's ethnicity was at issue, even if now we know that he's German. I'm objeting to whole sale deletion of a section that hasn't been properly merged. Redunancy argument holds, but not at the cost of deleting from the article the fact that for 40 years, we didn't know his ethnicity at the choice of the writers. --RossF18 (talk) 01:07, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Small chime in: Eman007, RossF18 is correct: The fact that the character's origin was not plopped down in one go in 1963, or even by Stan Lee is important. That it developed over time, with other writers adding elements such as the character's name, the aliases, ethnicity, and so on is something that should be addressed in a real world context. And it is also some thing that should precede the FCB. At that point the FCB can be simplified down.

This is some thing that is very important to remember: When writing about works of fiction, or aspects of such works, real world context is pre-eminent. Putting that time line in place, in the text of the article is necessary.

On another note:

It's a shame that this had hit the point where, to all appearance, one editor has scared off another. Considering we're all volunteers here, RossF18 has every right to do as he sees fit. If he feels the aggravation with this isn't worth it to try and improve the article, that his call. But he does add a point or two to the above observation the WP:AGF and WP:CIVILITY took solid hits, if they weren't ignored entirely, in this. Reviewing both WP:OWN and WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND should be in order all around.

- J Greb (talk) 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Taking J Greb's comments to heart, I propose a compromise, that is for the current last sentence of the Publication History section to read:

An account of Magneto's childhood, titled X-Men: Magneto Testament, was released in September 2008. It is written by Greg Pak, who has read accounts from Holocaust survivors, watched documentaries, and read comics such as Maus as part of his research into the era. The significance of this publication is that Magneto's ethnicity has finally been clarified. Although Uncanny X-Men vol. 1, #150 (August 1981) established Magneto as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, while he was searching for his wife Magda, a Sinti Gypsy, Magneto maintained a cover identity as a Sinti Gypsy. This created confusion amongst some readers, as to his heritage, until it was authoritatively confirmed in Magneto: New Testament that he is, in fact, Jewish.

Let's work on this together.--RossF18 (talk) 02:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's an idea:

Create a section like Wolverine's article called a "Intended Origin" Wolverine's article has two: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_(comics)#Wolverine.27s_first_intended_origin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_(comics)#Wolverine.27s_second_intended_origin -a fact which was really my point all along; the fact that Wolverine had the same issue until a straightforward canonical story for him was created.

And what i've been suggested the last time, as RossF18 would rather concoct stories that I made "personal insults" about him where the evidence shows I've done no such thing where I can quote directly where HE did so first with no apology whatsoever, but expects me to do the same for him. Merge this section:

Magneto's Eastern European heritage was loosely hinted in the 1992 animated adaptation of the X-Men, though direct references to the Holocaust and his Jewish heritage were excluded. The elements of his personality which were originally drawn from this section of his past were instead explained as being the result of a war that overtook his country (which was never named), when he was an adult. In the 2000 animated series X-Men: Evolution, the general theme of Magneto's original past was restored, but he is not specifically referenced as being Jewish or a Holocaust survivor. His incarceration in a Nazi death camp is partially retained, though it is referred to as being a POW camp. His heritage and Holocaust experiences were carried over in full for the film adaptations. In the feature film, X-Men, however, Magneto's survival of the Holocaust is directly addressed as the main motivation behind his actions."

Into this article where it belongs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_in_other_media since that section seems to imply the cartoon and movies as both are referred to already in that article. --Eman007 (talk) 06:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Archives

Could someone who is more knowledgable about edits fix the Archive mess. There are 2 archived threads and they should really be in one of those boxes that says "archive" and has "1" and "2" listed. As it stands now, the best I could do is just to provide a regular blue link to them.--RossF18 (talk) 04:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I think I got it, but if not, please help me out.--RossF18 (talk) 04:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Redemption [volume & issue needed]

Seriously, someone went a little overboard with the tags in the section. Dumaka (talk) 19:49, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved I'm passing the buck on the DAB page to a separate request as it wasn't the chief focus here. I would note though, that the references to Google searches appear to all be to web results, rather than books (or news) searches which should be defaulted to first, and where the generator gets 17 times the results across all books, and still more than 2.6 times the results if the search is limited to the last 4 years. The recent carve out language for recentism and educational value in the primary topic policy may also inform such discussion.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

---

Magneto (comics) → Magneto – The comic book character is the primary topic, not the electrical generator. The comic book character largely dominates Google searches and the article on the electric generator needs improvements, so off to the library I go. —James ^{(Talk • Contribs)} • 10:42pm • 12:42, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Bit of WP:Recentism there. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
• Propose instead moving Magneto to Magneto (electrical generator) and Magneto (disambiguation) to Magneto. The comics had about 4× more traffic than the electrical generator in 2010 so there is no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. –CWenger (^ • @) 18:23, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. A modern fictional character can dominate in web hits without being the "main topic". The device known as a magneto is clearly the main topic. Dicklyon (talk) 21:52, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
• Strong oppose the electrical generator is the primary topic. Have you looked around the city you live in to see how many magnetos are around you? 65.94.47.63 (talk) 04:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, though I would support moving Magneto to make way for a disambiguation page, in the interest of reader convenience. Powers ^T 12:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, though I agree with CWenger and Powers that if a new proposal was created to make the dab the primary topic, I would most likely support that. Jenks24 (talk) 10:14, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
• I'm voting for the DAB page as primary topic based on last year's 4:1 ratio and the fact that the generator scores relatively high in the Google results (magneto -Wikipedia), per CWenger. But this is probably wishful thinking on my part, a hope that there is a significant minority of readers who are interested in an educational topic rather than the shlocky movies. The DAB got 50,019 views in 2010. These readers must have gone to the generator article thinking that it was about the movie character and then used the hat. You search for "Magneto". Two "Magnetos" come up. One says "(comic)", so the other one must be the movie character, right? In other words, the real ratio for 2010 was more like 615018/(137275-50019) --> 7:1. Kauffner (talk) 14:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

A separate request to move disambiguation page to Magento

As result of the above requested move, a separate move request has been proposed at Talk:Magneto#Requested move. older ≠ wiser 17:14, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 March 2012 (magneto drawing tutorial)

72.185.245.246 (talk) 01:27, 4 March 2012 (UTC) There are also youtube tutorials on how to draw magneto as well; perhaps this video should help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV6L-7t6ksA&list=UUtwAr7TxtaMpTgyo2S1buXQ&feature=plcp

✗ Not done Please read WP:NOT and WP:EL: this link would violate the external links policy and "what is wikipedia not" - everybody who is able to use a search engine is able to find this if he/she is looking for such a video. mabdul 13:31, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Magneto is not a megalomaniac.

Hi.I want to point out that the line in the introductory paragraph reading "A powerful mutant with the ability to generate and control magnetic fields, in his early appearances, his motive was simple megalomania, but writers have since fleshed out his character and origin, revealing him to be a Jewish Holocaust survivor whose actions are driven by the purpose of protecting the mutant race from suffering a similar fate." is incorrect.Magneto was NOT a megalomaniac even in his early appearences.In a 2008 interview conducted by Marvel Spotlight: Uncanny X-Men 500 Issues Celebration, Stan Lee elaborated that he "did not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist... he was trying to defend the mutants, and because society was not treating them fairly he was going to teach society a lesson. He was a danger of course... but I never thought of him as a villain." Stan Lee wrote the early issues in the year 1963. May I request that that particular portion of that line be changed? thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRoD1988 (talk • contribs) 09:34, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The External Links changes

I've been contributing to this Magneto page since it debuted. The articles linked as: http://cyberhellfireclub.myfreeforum.org/ftopic13.php&sid=209ef010f8fd0fe86b9e221718b7d84c Magneto is Jewish FAQ http://cyberhellfireclub.myfreeforum.org/The_Auschwitz_Sonderkommando_and_Magnus_about242.html_0_2_0 Magneto and the Sonderkommando are researched, accurate articles. I will continue to put them up on this page. I note that the two who are trying to remove these links have been reported before for adversarial behavior, and for causing conflicts. The links we contributors wish to add are just as important as what you think should be added.Myst3 (talk) 16:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)Myst3

Why do we need to link to two forum post about him being Jewish? That information is not in doubt, nor do I think most people really care. Dream Focus 17:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

So now you try to be reasonable on the Talk Page after "Warning Me" about reverts. It works both ways. You can be warned too. You want to discuss this, then fine. But you've been warned numerous times yourself over the years, and you seem to be an expert at using the "Warning Alert" as a weapon, then talking. Since I can't post on your talk page, consider yourself "warned" -- if I can figure out how to submit the report. As to your point, why did you remove the Uncanny X-Men.net link? That's one of the most comprehensive sources of information regarding X-Men characters. What does it matter if there is a link to Uncanny X-Men.net? And yes, the Sonderkommando article is informative and accurate. You are not an expert on Magneto, nor should you have the final say on what appears in this article. Bullying people by using the "warning" system, along with confederates like J Greb, is not being reasonable. You should try to talk first, send warnings later. I'd like the Uncanny X-Men. net link to stay, and the Sonderkommando article to stay. Neither violates Wiki rules.Myst3 (talk) 17:30, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Since you refuse to discuss this, and refuse to reach a compromise, I'll continue to post on this talk page, and then make my edits to restore the External Links. If you don't like my edits, then you need to talk to me first before reverting them.Myst3 (talk) 18:26, 14 July 2012 (UTC)Myst3

Myst3:

1. The warning on your talk page was warranted since you were intent on edit warring and you had breached the sirit, if not the letter, of WP:3RR. And this was after you were directed to take this to the talk page, WP:BRD, instead of continuing to war about it.
2. You were pointed to WP:EL regarding what should and should not be included in the "External links" section.
   • Uncanny X-Men.net link you placed is minimal and entierly redundant to another external link and the article itself. See WP:ELNO item 1. It also qualifies as a fan-site. See WP:ELNO point 11
   • The cyberhellfireclub.myfreeforum.org links are blog posts. E:NO #11 again. And also more or less redundant since the article already provides the relevant information with sourcing and with more or less appropriate weight.
3. Gennerally, the removal of link-farms - and that is what was there - which fail ELNO is considered a valid improvement of the article. Boldly restoring it going to need consensus.
4. Thumbing you nose at other editors and threatning to go back to edit warring is a good way for your post to WP:ANEW tp boomerang on you.

- J Greb (talk) 18:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

• Update, Myst3 has been blocked for 24 hours for edit warring. Dream Focus 20:58, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

He isn't the only villain and now he isn't a villain at all

[2] The various comic book series (X-men, Uncanny X-Men, X-men Legacy, etc. etc.) have a rather long history. He wasn't always the central villain, just a major one that kept coming back again and again. They weren't every issue trying to find a way to fight him. And he is now an X-men, living with Cyclops's group and following his orders. Dream Focus 06:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The biography should include Magneto becoming a "good guy" but he was a villain much longer. Frmorrison (talk) 21:23, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Biography change

Following a discussion on the WikiProject_Comics talk page, I came to agree with other editors that there are major problems with how superhero articles are written. Honestly, they're a bloody mess, a massive sperg-fest by comic geeks who do not coordinate their efforts or work hard to relate to the layman. There are other wikis on the Web that are more appropriate for this.

Most glaring are the biographies. They are excessively bloated. They are centered around the mainstream 616 Universe, giving no regard to the other books, movies, and television shows. This is not appropriate, given that the movies and TV shows have a wider audience than the comic books, and that the mainstream universe goes through endless retcons and reboots. Additionally, this section was not written appropriately for an encyclopedia, which should always be written from the perspective of the real world. The Manual of Style says: "Articles about fiction, like all Wikipedia articles, should adhere to the real world as their primary frame of reference. The approach is to describe the subject matter from the perspective of the real world, in which the work of fiction and its publication are embedded."

I have rewritten the biography section completely. Instead of a biography, it attempts to list the plot points and character traits about Magneto that have been consistent across all the stories he has appeared in. It gives equal weight to all the comic books, the movies, and TV shows.Kurzon (talk) 14:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Your changes read more like a research paper than an article, and it smacks of POV/original research in several sections.

Fine tuning the existing article is one thing, but it doesn't need to be taken down from scratch. --DrBat (talk) 09:43, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Lead sentence should identify him as a supervillain, not hero

Magneto should be identified as a supervillain in the lead sentence. His current status as a hero or villain can go under "Fictional character biography," under the appropriate subsection and the storyarc. The issue is that many comic book character articles are plagued by editors changing the character's status as a hero or villain based on what they currently are based on the current story arc. As per the WikiProjects Comics discussion on this, the consensus is that the lead sentence and lead paragraph should identify the character as a superhero or supervillain (or just "character" if they are neither) based on what they are best known as. If someone was to ask, "Who is Magneto?" Hardly anyone would say, "He's a hero; a good guy." They would say, "He's the X-Men's archenemy." So, the lead paragraph should reflect this. His current status in whatever story arc or whatever title can be discussed in that appropriate section. JosephSpiral (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

The lead sentence identified him as a character, not a hero. And he hasn't been a villain in over a decade now. --DrBat (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

While he has taken the anti-hero role as of late, the "character" identification is better than "superhero." Magneto is unique in that his heroic conversion has lasted longer than others, but his legacy is hardly that of a hero. JosephSpiral (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Biography change

Following a discussion on the WikiProject_Comics talk page, I came to agree with other editors that there are major problems with how superhero articles are written. Honestly, they're a bloody mess, a massive sperg-fest by comic geeks who do not coordinate their efforts or work hard to relate to the layman. There are other wikis on the Web that are more appropriate for this.

Most glaring are the biographies. They are excessively bloated. They are centered around the mainstream 616 Universe, giving no regard to the other books, movies, and television shows. This is not appropriate, given that the movies and TV shows have a wider audience than the comic books, and that the mainstream universe goes through endless retcons and reboots. Additionally, this section was not written appropriately for an encyclopedia, which should always be written from the perspective of the real world. The Manual of Style says: "Articles about fiction, like all Wikipedia articles, should adhere to the real world as their primary frame of reference. The approach is to describe the subject matter from the perspective of the real world, in which the work of fiction and its publication are embedded."

I have rewritten the biography section completely. Instead of a biography, it attempts to list the plot points and character traits about Magneto that have been consistent across all the stories he has appeared in. It gives equal weight to all the comic books, the movies, and TV shows.Kurzon (talk) 14:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Your changes read more like a research paper than an article, and it smacks of POV/original research in several sections.

Fine tuning the existing article is one thing, but it doesn't need to be taken down from scratch. --DrBat (talk) 09:43, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Lead sentence should identify him as a supervillain, not hero

Magneto should be identified as a supervillain in the lead sentence. His current status as a hero or villain can go under "Fictional character biography," under the appropriate subsection and the storyarc. The issue is that many comic book character articles are plagued by editors changing the character's status as a hero or villain based on what they currently are based on the current story arc. As per the WikiProjects Comics discussion on this, the consensus is that the lead sentence and lead paragraph should identify the character as a superhero or supervillain (or just "character" if they are neither) based on what they are best known as. If someone was to ask, "Who is Magneto?" Hardly anyone would say, "He's a hero; a good guy." They would say, "He's the X-Men's archenemy." So, the lead paragraph should reflect this. His current status in whatever story arc or whatever title can be discussed in that appropriate section. JosephSpiral (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

The lead sentence identified him as a character, not a hero. And he hasn't been a villain in over a decade now. --DrBat (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

While he has taken the anti-hero role as of late, the "character" identification is better than "superhero." Magneto is unique in that his heroic conversion has lasted longer than others, but his legacy is hardly that of a hero. JosephSpiral (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Page Length

This article is huge and should really be reduced. My suggestion is to create an Alternate versions of Magneto page similar to Alternate versions of Captain America and Alternate versions of Iron Man which were recently created due to page length. This would create room to expand the Alternate versions section and possibly free up enough room to add more detail to this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.251.209 (talk) 07:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

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