Talk:M8 motorway (Ireland)

Untitled

Options? I think we can dispense with the two headings under the route section, and expand the history section while shortening the "future" section. Other than that, I've no suggestions. Seighean (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Ideas:

The route section needs to be broken down. The information is excellent, but it's in one big lump.

Also, when I read it, I realised this sentence is unnecessary:

The M8 consists of five road schemes linked together: the Cullahill-Cashel project, the Cashel bypass, the Cashel-Mitchelstown scheme, Mitchelstown-Fermoy and the Fermoy/Rathcormac Bypass.

That's mentioned in the history section as well, so it's not needed here.

A photo of the finished Cashel-Mitchelstown scheme would be nice as well.

Trans5999 (talk) 19:11, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

August 2008 posts

Is this page really needed, as the M8 and N8 are one and the same. Limbo-Messiah (talk) 20:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It will definately be needed in the future since the N8 will gradually caese to exist (apart from a small segment in Cork City centre), so very soon the the N8 page will be obsolete. At the moment however, the N8 and M8 are virtually equal in length. Perhaps either the articles should be merged, or the information about the M8 moved to the M8-specific page and leave the N8 deal with simply the N8 itself. The downside is that this may confuse a few people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trans5999 (talk • contribs) 01:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

The M8 is the N8, the M8 is legally defined as the N8. I think it should be done like the N1 / M1 page.Limbo-Messiah (talk) 08:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, it comes under WP:COMMONNAME. The fact that the road is legislated for as the N8 means nothing - if it did, then we would have the N50, not the M50. The road will be known as the M8 where it is the M8, and the N8 where it is the N8. If one becomes significantly longer than the other, then it would probably be worth amalgamating the two articles. As suggested above, since the two are of similar lengths at the present times, I see no problem with their having two seperate pages. (But the info about the M8 on the N8 page does need to be cut down.) --Schcambo^{aon scéal?} 17:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

At first I was sceptical about this page, but after researching the topic further, I've realised that by the end of year most of the previous N8 route will have become the M8 route. The second round of re-designations includes Watergrasshill to Dunkettle, so that is likely to be re-designated as well.

I think this page should be kept. As I said before, it will probably be needed in the future. (The same applies to the M7 page. It may appear unnecessary to some now, but very soon most of the previous N7 will have been replaced by M7 motorway).

I don't think this should be done for every Irish motorway (some are simply too short), but the M7 and M8 are significant enough to have pages dedicated to them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trans5999 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I've changed my mind now too. In fact, I've added photos and transferred some of the information from the N8 road page to this one, including references. The Cashel to Cullahill Scheme will open this autumn, turning the vast majority of the N8 into the M8, while simultaneously drastically increasing the length of the R639 road.

Motorway Templates.

I think we should use this page as a template for all motorway specific pages (except the M50).

It's clear, straightforward and presents the information in a readable way.

I've converted the M7-specific page into a layout like this and it looks a lot better. If anyone's planning to do M9 or M6 pages then please use this template. It will create a nice consistency within the pages. Thanks... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trans5999 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Motorway Length

I've noticed that the length has been changed from '63' to '155' km.

Obviously 63km is the length of the motorway at the moment, where as 155 is the length of the completed M8 (including Watergrasshill/Glanmire bypasses).

I want to know which one we will display in each of the motorway pages - as all of them deal with the CURRENT length of the motorway in question.

I am considering reverting it back. Trans5999 (talk) 17:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, good idea, my bad. I may have a go at editing the infobox template though, so that it displays "current length" as well as "planned length". --Schcambo^{aon scéal?} 10:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Schcambo^{aon scéal?} 13:23, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Good job! That's a lot more clear than it was before! Trans5999 (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Nice job on the info box guys! I take it that'll be the model used for all the other motorways?

Standardising the M1 article

The M1 article is the only one that doesn't conform to the new template Trans5999 has so artfully designed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asteroid (talk • contribs) 17:49, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Judging by the efforts people went to merge the M1 and N1 articles, I'm not sure it would be well received. HOWEVER, it is the only interurban that doesn't conform to these new motorway articles (which are nicely standardised thanks to many people's contributions). The signposted N1 road is very insignificant in length at the moment as the majority N1 is now M1. I think it's about time for an M1 article, or at the very least making the existing N1 article conform to the new template. It just doesn't fit in with the rest.

As for the M3, M4, M11 and (possibly) M25, I don't think they require their own articles, but perhaps a standard motorway template within the articles would be welcome. (Route - Sections Under Construction - Service Areas perhaps). Trans5999 (talk) 17:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed some material - new section

I decided to remove this material as I felt it is repeated a few times throughout the article:

Until July 2008, most of the M8 – from the future junction at Urlingford to junction 14 north of Fermoy – was to be classified as High Quality Dual Carriageway (HQDC). A Statutory Instrument, usable at the discretion of the Irish Minister for Transport subject to certain criteria, saw parts of both the existing M8 corridor and the yet-to-be-finished M8 corridor reclassified as a motorway. The changes came into effect on 24 September 2008. The schemes affected are the Fermoy to Mitchelstown project; the Cashel to Urlingford segment; the Cashel bypass; and the Cashel to Mitchelstown stretch.

Also, I've decided to add a new section to the template in light of the recent potential motorway redesignations:

Motorway redesignations affecting...

Trans5999 (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

References

Insertion of "History" section ultimately?

BluntGuy, as the M8 nears completion, I think we should consider adding a new headed section, called "History". This would give the full background to the construction, mentioning the NDP and Transport 21, as well as giving a staged account of the building including of those parts opened initially as Dual Carriageway and later redesignated. E.g. "the Dunkettle to Glanmire section was the first to open, but did so as a national road..." etc.; "Next came the Watergrasshill Bypass,...", then "The Cashel Bypass", Fermoy Bypass etc. Each sub-heading would a brief account of each section including budget, contractor, and construction dates where and if that info can be found. Each would also have its own photo. I think this should be done fairly soon before the NRA takes a lot of the budgetary information down from its site. The same should be done with the M7, M9, M6 etc. What do you think? (Furet)

I think it's a good idea. At the moment, the 'Route' section is clogged with a lot of information regarding construction dates etc. I think a 'History' section would be beneficial. But it would require a lot of re-organising of the information.

But yeah, the sooner we do that, the better. Remove the information about construction to the 'History' section, and give a more detailed account of the route itself in the 'Route' section.

Also, I want to get round to doing the M1 page the same way this is done.

(BluntGuy) Trans5999 (talk) 19:13, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed in principle so. I suggest we wait until Cashel to Cullahill opens so that we have a nice long continuous "route" section that flows. By that time, who knows, maybe the latest Statutory instrument will have been signed; the Dept of Transport official I spoke to said they reckoned the process wouldn't take nearly as long this time round, as they are getting better at handling things. That would give us a big hefty "Route" section with no real need for sub-headings. The "Future" section would also be whittled down when that happens to the remaining two schemes plus service areas giving us a nice concise article, replete with photos and an interesting history section. Sounds like a plan! (Furet) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.69.58 (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

What about the M1 page? I'd like to that in the same way as these pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trans5999 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there's no point in not standardising it. It doesn't seem to have been extensively edited in a long time, and I don't think anyone would mind if we did it. Rather than starting a new M1 page, I'd simply rework the existing page, rename it, etc. I won't be much use to you tonight or tomorrow for doing it as I'm moving house this week and am way behind at work too (too much gallavanting up and down the construction sites of the M8!) (Furet).

Sounds good to me! Sarah777 (talk) 20:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

History Section & changes - December 8th/M8(Toll) shield?

I think when the Cullahill section opens, that'll be a good time to insert the history section since the majority of the road will be at that stage opened. The future section can remain as is. The route section can be tidied up a bit to remove some information that will get transferred. The route should deal with the route in general as opposed to describing specific sections. However, that might be a bit of a problem considering the M8 will still exist in two seperate parts.

Also, the junctions box is a bit of an issue, due to the manner in which the scheme terminates at Cullahill, we'll have to add in a new temporary exit for "Cullahill".

The last thing... does anybody want an M8(Toll) shield for this page. I personally dislike the signage, but since that is what they have on the signs, it may not be a bad idea to include it here... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trans5999 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

This is by far the best Irish road page now. Time to get the rest in order now, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asteroid (talk • contribs) 22:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Once again the M8 page has reached a standard to which all other pages should now aspire to. Trans5999 (talk) 00:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Junction Box...

I have noticed that our English counterparts use a specific colour for "No Access" cells in the junction box. I have emulated that on this article. Should we should standardize the other Irish motorway boxes to fit in with this style?

Trans5999 (talk) 17:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic Pictures/Route Section Thought...

I see people have uploaded wonderful pictures, just like to say: good job on helping to keep this the best Ireland road page. Hopefully over time the others will be a nice as this.

Thanks to everybody who contributes to this page...

Also, the route section is fine for the moment, but what happens when the Mitchelstown-Fermoy scheme opens in May? We can't just throw it all into one big block of text. Any ideas for how we could subdivide it?

Trans5999 (talk) 18:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking by county. There won't be that much extra to add to the 'route' section when M-F opens anyway, certainly not as much as there has been to say about C-C or C-M. (Furet) Seighean (talk) 02:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that could work: "Route through Laois", "Route through Tipperary" etc. and I agree, there will not be a large amount to add, however we will have to emphasize that both the M8 Fermoy and M8 Cullahill are the same motorway. At the moment, there is a(n) (unavoidable) feeling (even within the text) that they are totally different motorways (even I feel like that when driving them). Trans5999 (talk) 03:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Route confirmation photo

Hi Seighean - now you've got it! Good one. Sarah777 (talk) 20:04, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Updated in time for the opening!

The page has been given an extensive rewrite and new pictures have been added. More citations will be inserted next week. Seighean (talk) 00:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Location map

Start	Portlaoise
Primary destinations	Dublin, Cork, Fermoy, Thurles, Cashel
End	Dunkettle Interchange
Location map
Construction dates	1985 – 2010

I've added an experimental location map and suggest adding it to all Irish m-way articles. Any comments? Sarah777 (talk) 08:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Quickly point out - this is the work of User:Sswonk - who generously produced it on request. Thanks. Sarah777 (talk) 08:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...I think it's a good map, but it isn't positioned very well in the article. What do people think about incorporating the map into the infobox at the top right of the page? Just an idea... Seighean (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Yep...incorporation would be good; but I think the map should retain a decently large size for good illustration. Sarah777 (talk) 20:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Perhaps the names of motorways should be added as well though. And perhaps some kind of symbol for a few of the main cities/towns. Nothing too much, don't want it to get cluttered up, but it may help. (BluntGuy) Trans5999 (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Just look at this from Sswonk! (check my talkpage for other examples); could you folk go through these and give your views on the options? Sarah777 (talk) 08:11, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello all. I have created a modified infobox which assumes the title of an Irish motorway map would be "Mx motorway (Ireland).png" as the shield is assumed to be titled "Mx motorway IE.png". A mock page showing the infobox is at User:Sswonk/Fenway with the M8 motorway used as a test case (all categories commented out of the code to avoid having the mock page show up in categories). The map is 180px in this case, with the width standardized for all motorways. Both the width and the location of the map in the order of information in the infobox are merely an arbitrary decision on my part and subject to your editorial discretion; those parameters should be decided before this form is incorporated into the main {{IRL motorway routebox}}.

As for adding labels to the national maps, those would not be legible at 180px but certainly would be useful when the map image is clicked to view full size. I recently made a labeled map for Massachusetts and have started creating them for WP:MASH articles. A before-and-after example can be be seen by comparing Massachusetts Route 9 with Massachusetts Route 2. The trick to avoid clutter is to make the shields (markers?) and city labels the right size for viewing the full size map and not worrying about legibility at 180px. My suggestion is to label all of the Nxx and Mxx routes on the national maps, and then adding the following cities: Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Kilkenny, Westport, Sligo, Belfast, Armagh, Londonderry/Derry with Dublin and Belfast bolded due to population, what about that? I will start this and post a link to a draft version, whilst you Irish roads editors mull over that list. Everything is subject to your discretion and should be fairly easy to change. Sswonk (talk) 14:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I've put the sandbox version into the article. Looks very good to me. Any comments before we start adding them to all the articles? Anyone object? Sarah777 (talk) 18:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I updated {{IRL motorway routebox}} to include the "map=" parameter, which will link to a map with the exact name "Mxx motorway (Ireland).png" if the parameter is non-empty, for example "map = yes". This is harmless to current uses of the infobox where a map has not yet been created. Bear in mind that any updates for completed sections of road in the future will automatically show up in the infobox as long as the file named "Mxx motorway (Ireland).png" for a given motorway is updated with a newer version. Sswonk (talk) 02:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

The rough draft for a national road map, M8 highlighted, is now shown at the top of this thread. I also changed the blue of the motorway routes and shields to better match the actual sign color in photos. I will be away for a bit but back later tonight. Sswonk (talk) 20:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I uploaded the M8 map with shields and city labels. With those elements added, it does make the highlighted route stand out less. I tried a few tweaks to highlight it better, the only one that makes it unmistakable at any size is to change the color of the highlighted route to a contrasting hue such as red or orange. That is what WP:USRD does, but not what Sarah has asked for. I will upload a version with M8 in red which will show at the top of this thread. The map in the M8 article infobox shows it in blue with labels. Please let me know which color scheme is preferred. Sswonk (talk) 00:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Myself, I prefer the bold blue as in the infobox; the additional clutter isn't bad and blue is the motorway colour in these parts. But I've no strong objections to red if that's what people want. People? Anyone out there? (If I proposed changing the name of this article they'd be here like flies to a cowpat!) Sarah777 (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not even sure I prefer the blue when I look at the map in the infobox. Conflicted am I.......Sarah777 (talk) 20:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

What better way than to solve our indecision than to go a completely different direction? This time I decided to go for the Deutsche Karten look and I think of the three attempts with labels so for, i.e. yellow with blue M8, yellow with red M8 and now gray with muted labels and blue M8, this is the best. N.B.: this is not anywhere near finished and is a very quick draft. If you view the map at full size you'll see many problems with transparency that need fixing. I need to take a while to organize this with a finalized version, but this gives an idea of how that will look. What about a gray map such as above, for all motorway maps replacing the yellow ones done so far? Sswonk (talk) 01:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Really like the blue on grey. The highlighted route seems to stand out very well in bold blue; even the non-highlighted routes are clear (as they are on yellow). This is a bit like trying to pick'n'mix in a sweet shop! If only we could have them all :) Sarah777 (talk) 06:46, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sswonk; could you put this grey map into the article so we can see what it looks like? (I can't figure out how to do it). Sarah777 (talk) 06:51, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It's the way I made the infobox, causing it only to link to a map that is named "Mx motorway (Ireland).png", so that if the map is updated, the infobox is automatically updated as well. To make the draft "live", you needed to download the draft and then go to the File:M8 motorway (Ireland).png page and at the bottom click "Upload a new version of this file" and replace the image. I will do that in a moment. I didn't do that at first because the yellow map is then replaced by the gray one, making comparison difficult, but they can still be compared by clicking the thumbnails in the image history, opening in separate tabs to show each version. Sswonk (talk) 12:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I have come to a decision! I'd go for the yellow with bold blue for the route in question. As nobody else seems to be too fussed either way could we be WP:BOLD and add the maps you have to the article infoboxes? For the M2 and M50 the Dublin map would look perfect; for the rest the Ireland map. (Note the M3, M6, M7, M8, M9 and M18 all have bits currently under construction so they'll have to be updated over the next few months. Sarah777 (talk) 21:23, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I am taking it easy today, but will change the already existing yellow maps to have muted non-highlighted roads. M8, M7 and M2 maps are already updated. All it takes is adding "map = yes" to the motorway routebox to bring into the articles. I also owe you a M-18 and M-20. Thanks – Sswonk (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:M8 motorway (Ireland)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I believe this article to be of very good quality. The prose is very good; The layout is very good; The references are sound; The photographs are of good quality. It is the best Irish road article, and is at a standard all other Irish motorway articles should aspire to. Seighean (talk) 01:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 01:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 22:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)