Talk:Lyall Howard

This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was withdrawn.

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 July 2008. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Referencing

Hi. Please only add referenced information to this article. See Wikipedia:Citing sources. Thanks, Lester2 02:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copyediting

Feel free to repair the atrocious prose initiated by the founding editor. Phrase like "but not an outwardly affectionate", are not indicative of the style this article should take. Prester John ^{-(Talk to the Hand)} 03:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

Notability is not extended by association. How is Lyall Howard notable independent of his son? Simply being an army private or working with CSR and as mechanic with some tangential interests in New Guinea does not establish notability. --cj | talk 05:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The New Guinea incident is notable. There is a lot more information on it, if people think it needs expansion to show notability. Lester2 12:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notability needs to be established by meeting WP:N. Otherwise it could be flagged for Deletion. In addition WP:WEIGHT needs to be satisifed. If Lyall Howard is only notable for the New Guinea Incident then New Guinea Incident needs to be notable in itself. Otherwise the mention of NGI needs to be reduced in size. Shot info 03:06, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although I am unaware of any published biographies on the subject, Lyall Howard warrants enough mentions in John Howard's various biographies to qualify in his own right under vthe secondary sources provision. Lester2, you have done a sterling job with this article, in co-operation with other editors. I take my hat off to you! --Pete 08:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See, it's (relatively) easy to edit BLPs (even for deceased individuals). Just need to realise that what newspapers scream from the headlines or bury in an opinion piece, is not necessarily encyclopedic :-) Shot info 08:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Pete.Lester2 09:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of my personal views on JWH I am glad this article made it through the AfD process. It is useful as it contributes to one's understanding of the make up of the son although perhaps Mona had more influence overall. There are heaps of articles on very "not notable" sports people here most of whom would not make a footnote in a detailed history of their sport. One thing seems to have been left out is LH's involvement with the New Guard. Is this only because there seems to be no verifiable sources at the moment? Also I wonder what he was up to on that AWL incident in March 1918? Albatross2147 03:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re New Guard: The information existed in earlier versions, but was deleted by others. There are many verifiable sources available, including newspaper articles, and even John Howard's latest biography mentions it. I think people may be concerned that this sort of information (plantation assets / new guard) may influence voting at the upcoming Federal election.--Lester 22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't we just wait then, if this is actually the problem? Wikipedia isn't going to go away in a hurry? Shot info 22:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well, that's what's been happening. It's sad that information must be omitted until after an election, and until John Howard is no longer a political force. The government inquiries and historical reports about the plantations are another part that was deleted, presumably to be held back until after the election.--Lester 23:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fortunately for us, the world isn't going to end tomorrow :-) Shot info 23:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting for deletion

I have proposed deletion --Matilda ^talk 00:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the second time the article has been listed for deletion. The first was >>HERE<<. What has changed? --Lester 00:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What has changed? - Howard is no longer PM. Howard's father does not meet notability criteria and I think that will be even more obvious now than it was withdrawn at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lyall Howard - ie the deabte was not concluded. If the prod does not survive I will list for AfD. as per my prod reasoning Wikipedia:Bio#Invalid_criteria: That person A has a relationship with well-known person B is not a reason for a standalone article on A. The AfD was withdrawn because there was some attempt to clean up the article. The article is clean but there is still no independent notability conferred on the subject in my view. If he wasn't John Howard's father he would not have had an article. --Matilda ^talk 01:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The lead currently reads Lyall Falconer Howard (1896-1955) was a World War I veteran, engineer and business owner and the father of former Australian Prime Minister, John Howard - if you struck out the last bit - wouod we have an article on somebody who was a World War I veteran, engineer and business owner? I don't think so.--Matilda ^talk 01:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In order to ensure the matter is given some debate I have instead nominated for deletion to be discussed - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lyall Howard (2nd nomination) --Matilda ^talk 04:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]