Talk:Luo Wenzao

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 03:17, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Portrait of Luo Wenzao

• ... that Luo Wenzao (pictured) became the first Chinese Catholic bishop in 1685 after declining the appointment in 1677? Source:
  On the fact that he was the first Chinese Catholic bishop, see Fang, Hao (March 1988). "羅文藻" [Luo Wenzao]. 中國天主教史人物傳·中 [Biographies of Figures in Chinese Catholic History (II)] (PDF) (in Chinese). Beijing: 中華書局. p. 144. ISBN 7-101-00233-1.
  On his declining of the appointment in 1677, see San Román, Miguel Angel (2001). "Luo Wenzao: A Unique Role in the Seventeenth Century Church of China". In Weiying Gu (ed.). Missionary Approaches and Linguistics in Mainland China and Taiwan. Leuven University Press. p. 138. ISBN 9789058671615.).
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Audrey Whitty

5x expanded by TheLonelyPather (talk). Self-nominated at 20:31, 23 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Luo Wenzao; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Fantastic article! AGF on the Chinese source. Earwig gives a high score but it's mostly the quoted epitaph. BorgQueen (talk) 20:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the speedy approval, BorgQueen! I worked really hard for this. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Luo Wenzao/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The person who loves reading (talk · contribs) 04:23, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I may be a little busy at this time. Finish the review within several days.

Review template

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   There are many grammar mistakes in this article. More detailed suggestions are given in the "Suggestions" part below. Most spelling and grammar mistakes are found. Therefore, the spelling and grammar are correct. Additionally, the prose is clear and concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience.

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   No problem was found in the lead section. The layout is correct. No words in the MOS words to watch section were found. Lists in see also, references, further reading, and external links are nice. Therefore, this article complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. (Note: Fiction of the manual of style guidelines doesn't apply to this article since it's not a fiction.)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   An obvious pass. This article has a list of references and I can identify the source through the given information.

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   https://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/blwt.html may not be a reliable source because it is marked as "generally unreliable source" by the "unreliable" user script. (Citation number 13) (source deleted)

   All other sources are reliable. Almost every sentence has an inline citation.

   c. (OR):

   The book was edited by four Dominican priests: Francisco Varo, Domingo Fernández Navarrete, Domingo Sarpetri, and Luo himself. Sources cited + verify content.

   Towards the end of his life, Luo oversaw the repair of the tomb of Antonio Caballero. In 1690, Luo restored the stele and wrote following the Latin inscription:(quote) Source cited + verify content

   Many historians agree that Luo's given name is Wenzao (文藻), his courtesy name is Ruding (Chinese: 汝鼎; pinyin: Rú dǐng), and his art name is Wocun (Chinese: 我存; pinyin: Wǒ cún). Source cited + verify content

   As of 2011, its site is used by Fu'an Second Middle School (Chinese: 福安市第二中学). Source cited + verify content

   Luo was almost killed by locals. Sources cited + verify content

   Note: Some sources are not available online. Some sources are Chinese that need translation to understand.

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Using https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&oldid=1152542427&action=compare&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latinitassinica.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F06%2Fissue-6-final-edition1.pdf: Violation possible 56.9% (This is because the block quote, so it doesn't count as a copyright violation.)

   Manually checked: No copyright violation found. The DYK nomination review page also contains information about this.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   This article covers all main aspects.

   b. (focused):

   Although a little longer than other good articles, This article stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail and it is shorter than some good articles.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   This article is very neutral. The DYK nomination also backs this up because the revision when the DYK is reviewed don't differ significantly from the latest revision.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Clearly no edit wars.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   All images are freely licensed. (Public Domain/CC BY-SA 3.0/CC BY-SA 4.0/CC0)

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   All iamges are not primarily decorative. Most images show important people relevant to the topic, and other images are also important to the entire article. Additionally, images are in the right place. Although captions are longer than usual, but they are informative and succinct. Other good articles with similar topics also have images with long captions, but shorter captions will be preferred.

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

   The article meets all 6 criteria, so I mark it as a pass. This article has a clear and concise prose, and is understandable to broad audience (no words hard to understand or are highly technical words). There are no spelling and grammar mistakes, but some sentences may need to be rephrased to further improve the article. A more thorough copyedit is highly recommended, since it makes the article more concise and understandable. It complies with some sections of the manual of style (MoS), such as Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction, and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Embedded lists. This article unquestionably contains a list of references, and it's easy to identify a source using the information given. However, some sources may not be reachable, and some sources are Chinese, but it's totally (perfectly) OK to have those sources because they are beneficial to the content of this article. All statements that are likely to be challenged are properly sourced by sources. Additionally, almost all sentences are cited by sources, except the lead section which do not require sources to be cited. However, it is worth noticing that preprint or general repository may or may not contain unpublished, self-published, or predatory materials. This page may give some sources that are not reliable, or are reliable, and it's beneficial to look at it before using a source. By manually checking, there are no original research in this article. Some sentences are checked and sources verify the content of the sentences. There are no copyright violation in this article, by the copyright violation tool, manually checking, and the DYK nomination page which marks the article as no copyright violation. The score of the copyright violation tool may be unusually high, and that's because the huge quotation. This article clearly addresses the main aspects of the topic. This article also stays focused on the topic without going to unnecessary details, although this article is a little longer than other good articles with similar topics. This article follows the neutral point of view policy. It is also very stable with no edit wars and content disputes. The images of the article are freely licensed, and are all important to the article. Captions of the images are a little longer, but they are succinct and informative. However, smaller captions will be preferred. In conclusion, this article is a good article, and there are also many things to improve to become a featured or A-class article. Congratulations!

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Suggestions

Spelling and grammar mistakes

1. He is also known as Luo Wenzhao (simplified Chinese: 罗文炤; traditional Chinese: 羅文炤), Wenzao Lo, Luo Wencao, and variations of Gregorio Lopez in western languages. "western languages" --> "Western languages" ("Western" should be capitalized when used with a noun.)
2. Born in Fu'an, Fujian in the 1610s, Luo was baptized in 1633, joined the Dominican Order in 1650, and entered priesthood in 1654. "priesthood" --> "the priesthood"
3. Luo was an active participant of the controversy: he consecrated Chinese priests, and argued for the acceptance of Chinese rituals for the sake of preserving the early Catholic Church in China. "participant of" --> "participant in"
4. he consecrated Chinese priests, and argued for the acceptance of Chinese rituals for the sake of preserving the early Catholic Church in China. "priests," --> "priests"
5. However, his date of birth is not exactly determined, and there remains controversy on his real name. "on" --> "over"
6. The French magazine Le Petit Messager de Ningpo called him "Lo Ngo Chai" in an 1933 issue and "Ngo Ts'uen" in an 1940 issue, according to his art name. "an 1933" --> "a 1933"
7. The French magazine Le Petit Messager de Ningpo called him "Lo Ngo Chai" in an 1933 issue and "Ngo Ts'uen" in an 1940 issue, according to his art name. "an 1940" --> "a 1940"
8. When he entered the Dominican novitate in the Philippines in 1650, his last name was registered as Lopez. "novitate" --> "novitiate"
9. There are contemporary sources that still use this name, such a 2017 article by Pablo Robert Moreno. "such" --> "such as"
10. Then, in 1635, Luo and the Dominican missionary Francisco Diaz embarked for Manila to report the Chinese Rites controversy to the Catholic church, but they were captured by a Dutch group and did not reach Manila. "embarked for" --> "embarked on"
11. In 1638, Luo and three other Dominicans fled towards Macau, but were captured in Ningde. "Macau," --> "Macau"
12. Luo was introduced to the Dominicans at Manila, moved to the Dominican convent, and later the University of Santo Tomas. "at Manila" --> "in Manila"
13. In 1655, the Dominican provincial prior of Manila sent Luo back to China to evangelize. "prior of" --> "before"
14. In May 1665, Luo went to Manila to report the destruction of the Catholic mission in China to the Dominican provincial prior, and he sought economical support from not only the Dominicans, but also the Franciscans and Jesuits. "economical support" --> "economic support“
15. In May 1665, Luo went to Manila to report the destruction of the Catholic mission in China to the Dominican provincial prior, and he sought economical support from not only the Dominicans, but also the Franciscans and Jesuits. ”Dominicans," --> "Dominicans"
16. On 31 July 1673 the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith (Propaganda Fide) discussed the possibility of appointing Luo as a bishop. "1673" --> "1673,"
17. His reasons were that he was not confident in himself to take the responsibilities, and that his appointment could not succeed without the consent of Portugal, which had the protectorate of missions in China at the time. "responsibilities," --> "responsibilities"
18. Thirdly, Luo's tolerance for traditional Chinese culture was inherently different from the Dominican's stance in the Chinese Rites controversy. "for traditional" --> "of traditional"
19. Antonius Calderon, the Prior of the Dominican Province of Philippines, also strongly opposed Luo's appointment. "Philippines" --> "the Philippines"
20. Calderon threatened that, if Luo accepts the appointment, he would expel Luo from the Dominican Order if Luo accepts, recall all the Spanish missionaries from China, and end all subsidy to the Chinese missions. "threatened that," --> "threatened that"
21. Calderon threatened that, if Luo accepts the appointment, he would expel Luo from the Dominican Order if Luo accepts, recall all the Spanish missionaries from China, and end all subsidy to the Chinese missions. " if Luo accepts" --> ""(delete all)
22. Calderon threatened that, if Luo accepts the appointment, he would expel Luo from the Dominican Order if Luo accepts, recall all the Spanish missionaries from China, and end all subsidy to the Chinese missions. "subsidy" --> "subsidies"
23. However, Varo also opposed Luo's appointment, and suggested Juan de Palafox y Mendoza as a substitute of Luo. "appointment," --> "appointment"
24. However, Varo also opposed Luo's appointment, and suggested Juan de Palafox y Mendoza as a substitute of Luo. "substitute of" --> "substitute for"
25. He arrived in Canton in 1682 and reached Macau in 3 March 1683. "in 3 March 1683" --> "on 3 March 1683"
26. He then escaped to the Agustinian convent in Intramuros, where he was greatly welcomed. "Agustinian" --> "Augustinian"
27. They left Canton one 10 May 1685 and arrived in Nanjing on 30 June. "one 10 May 1685" --> "on 10 May 1685"
28. They left Canton one 10 May 1685 and arrived in Nanjing on 30 June. "30 June" --> "30 June 1685"
29. He resided in the Jesuits house in Nanjing. "Jesuits house" --> "Jesuit's house" or "Jesuits' house"
30. Secondly, there was a Dominican mission at Lanxi, Zhejiang, near Qiantang River. "Qiantang River" --> "the Qiantang River"
31. Thirdly, Luo himself claimed that the Jesuit prior of Hangzhou, Prospero Intorcetta, received him well. "prior of" --> "before"
32. According to Zhang Kai, Luo's preference of senior Chinese laity over younger foreign missionaries shows Luo's decision to "nativize" Catholicism. "preference of" --> "preference for"
33. At Luo's time, foreign missionaries were required by the Propaganda Fide to take an oath of obedience to the apostolic vicars of their location. "At Luo's time" --> "In Luo's time"
34. The five missionaries went to the court of Kangxi Emperor in Beijing, and was tested on their knowledge by Thomas Pereira. "Kangxi Emperor" --> "the Kangxi Emperor"
35. The five missionaries went to the court of the Kangxi Emperor in Beijing, and was tested on their knowledge by Thomas Pereira. "Beijing," --> "Beijing"
36. The five missionaries went to the court of the Kangxi Emperor in Beijing, and was tested on their knowledge by Thomas Pereira. "was tested" --> "were tested"
37. In his letter dated on 3 October 1688, he stressed that, if the missionaries had to adhere by the oaths of the Propaganda Fide, he would lose over half of the missionaries and most of the believers. "dated on 3 October 1683" --> "dated 3 October 1683"
38. He also pleaded that missionaries who do not adhere by the oath should be able to administer sacraments. "adhere by" --> "adhere to"
39. Towards the end of his life, Luo saw to the repair of the tomb of Antonio Caballero. "saw to" --> "saw"
40. Luo's tomb was damaged in the floods of 1848–1849, and eventually destroyed in 1862 during the Taiping Rebellion. "1848-1849," --> "1848-1849"
41. The seminary was later renamed as "Wenzao Seminary" (Chinese: 文藻修院; pinyin: Wén zǎo xiū yuàn). "renamed as" --> "renamed"
42. He then went on exile in Macau and Manila in 1639. "went on exile" --> "went into exile" ("went into exile" found in Cambridge Dictionary)
43. Eventually, Luo sent his resignation in 1677. "sent his resignation" --> "resigned" (more concise)
44. In August, Navarrete and the associate prior of the Dominican Province of Rome recommended Luo to the Propaganda Fide respectively. "Fide respectively" --> "Fide, respectively"

Changes & Feedback

I am putting my feedback and my potential conversation with the reviewer in this separate section, so the review part is more readable.

• Thanks, The person who loves reading! I have worked on suggestions 1-38 you brought up. I took them all except the ones that you suggested to swap "before" with "prior". The reason is that I take "prior" here to mean a religious order leader, i.e. Prior (ecclesiastical) / wikt:prior#Etymology_2.

For these cases, I changed the word order of "provincial prior" to "prior provincial", so now it would say "prior provincial of XXX" and be less confusing. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 19:16, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I will give more suggestions. The person who loves reading (talk) 19:27, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I have worked on suggestions 39-44. Ready to move on. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 20:39, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

• The person who loves reading: I have fixed the Catholic-Hierarchy suggestion you made. I found the 1615 claim from a book source. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 01:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks! The person who loves reading (talk) 01:16, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

• By the way, it's recommended to list this article Guild of Copy Editors Request, because more experienced editors will copyedit this article more entirely. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:46, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for letting me know! I think I need to request the help of the Guild more often. My only concern is the waiting time. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 02:03, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

  I have thought about your suggestion more. After the GA review, I will submit this article to the Guild of Copy Editors. I do wish to push this article to FA standard, if possible. Thanks again for the suggestion! --TheLonelyPather (talk) 03:40, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

  You're welcome. I'm going to pass this article. You may receive a message from a bot on behalf of me to notify you about the pass of this article. The person who loves reading (talk) 03:58, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.