Talk:Lucky stone

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This article was nominated for deletion on 6 September 2009. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Lucky Stones are collected along the shores of Lake Erie. I grew up collecting them in Vermilion, Ohio on the shores of Linwood Park's beach. Apparently the first collectors of the lucky stones were Native Americans. Are these lucky stones collected by others in other parts of North America and/or the world??

Dani Brow66dani (talk) 01:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, the article on Lucky Stones is being deleted as not being reliable or noteworthy enough. I object to this action. Refer to the current Wikipedia article on the Freshwater Drum regarding it's otoliths being collected by Native Americans.

Also refer to the selection on the Freshwater Drum on Ohio's historical page where lucky stones are an important topic (www.ohiohistorycentral.org). These otoliths are definitely collected by thousands of people along Lake Erie and likely in other locations. Thank you for your consideration of this matter. Brow66dani (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please also refer to an article on Lucky Stones by naturalist William Hudson on www.neonaturalist.com

there is also an article on lucky stones in the June 28, 2009 article in "Smart Stuff with Twig Walkingstick" by the Ohio State Extension office

www.ohiohistorycentral.org article on the Freshwater Drum talks a lot of Lucky Stones Brow66dani (talk) 01:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also see article by Sluss, A. and S. Harrel 2006 "Aplodinotus gunnierns" (on-line), Animal Diversity Web: "These fish also have exceptionally large inner ear bones called otoliths. They are called “lucky stones” and are collected for good luck. Many otoliths have been found around old Indian settlements and were traded far outside of their natural range. Archeologists believe that they were collected by indigenous peoples and worn as jewelry." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brow66dani (talk • contribs) 09:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It may be advisable to rename the article "Lucky Stones" instead of Lucky Stone as they are most commonly referred to in the plural. Brow66Dani Brow66dani (talk) 13:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that most discussion and sources I have found come from Ohio. Apparently, lucky stones are definitely the most common along the shores of Lake Erie as this is a major breeding area for the Freshwater Drum (which I grew up knowing as the Sheephead). One source points to Red Lake in Wisconsin as another main breeding area and "lucky stones" are also well known in this area. I grew up along the shores of Lake Erie and my family has collected several large jars full of "lucky stones" throughout the years. Many other people collect them. I also found one web business that sells "lucky stone jewelry" (www.etsy.com) so the tradition started by ancient Native Americans continues. These otoliths are also quite useful in determining the age of a fish when it died. The rings of calcium carbonite deposits can be read much like the rings of a tree (see article by George Spangler on the "Freshwater Drum" c. 2005,2006) Brow66Dani Brow66dani (talk) 13:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I acknowledge that one problem with the name of the title Lucky Stone or Lucky Stones is that there are other stones in other cultures or areas considered lucky, e.g., jade, quartz. However, the freshwater drum otoliths are so unique, interesting and collectible that it seems to me that this subject merits its own article. Perhaps this article could also include other paragraphs regarding other types of "Lucky Stones." Brow66Dani Brow66dani (talk) 13:37, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It strikes this author that perhaps it is Ethnocentric or Eurocentric to consider that the topic of "lucky stones" is not noteworthy enough to merit its own article when I just read a new article on Wikipedia titled Rick Dancer about a minor celebrity/politician in Oregon (where I currently reside). I will plead guilty to my own ethocentrism as well as the article would be stronger with more research regarding the Native American link to lucky stones. Unfortunately, most references I have found give only vague references to lucky stones having been collected for centuries by Native Americans and that they have been found in "ancient archaeological sites" etc.... I do remember reading one article that gave a specific tribal reference. Others could help me strengthen the article by doing further research as well. The broader point, however, is that lucky stones are artifacts which have been collected for centuries and seem to this writer far more noteworthy than many other articles that appear on Wikipedia. Comments by others?? Brow66Dani 68.118.60.87 (talk) 14:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC) It would seem appropriate to link this with other articles: obviously the Freshwater Drum, but perhaps also amulets and otoliths, and I can't think of the appropriate anthropological topic, but that as well. SithToby (talk) 16:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]