Talk:Lucien Bouchard

Personal biography

I don't think the article has enough personal biographical information. Who is his wife? Was he married before? Does he have children? This is the kind of basic information that should be included in every ordinary biography, even of a politician.

Audrey Best was his wife at the time... she's hot :)

Sylvain's Changes to Others' Work

• I removed the honourable prefix in the initial description. I read carefully the Canadian Usage section, and I am pretty sure it doesn't apply to Mr. Bouchard.
• Lucien Bouchard has nothing to do with the Privy Council for Canada: I really wonder were this information came from (ouch, sorry: he is a member after all -- change reverted).
• I splitted the Origins section in two, as it seems to flow better this way.
• I also added a short paragraph on the federalist/souvereinist duality of Bouchard's political career early in the text, since not mentionning it gives the impression the bio is factually faulty, while it is not the case.
• Stating that the promulgation of the martial law by Primer Minister Trudeau in 1970 contributed significanly to make Bouchard a separatist is in my opinion not a hard fact, although I agree it certainly had an influence; I took the liberty to soften the initial formulation a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syfou (talk • contribs) .

Hmm? Lucien Bouchard was a federal cabinet minister in the Mulroney government. He was therefore entitled to the The Honourable honorific and membership in both the Privy Council for Canada. --Saforrest 15:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think that he gets the title because he is a member of the queens privy council. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.240.192 (talk) 00:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

That's the Queen's Privy Council. A member of the Queens Privy Council, if Queens has a Privy Council, would be an American, a New Yorker in fact ;) Vincent (talk) 07:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

"As a premier"

I have a few problems with the following paragraph:

"Nevertheless, economists forecast that the provincial finances will remain a major problem over the next decades, notably due to rising costs in health care, debt repayment, aging population, strong unionization of the workforce, the highest tax rate on the continent, and growing demands for increased services. Quebec's economy remains weaker than that of the rest of Canada and of the US. (Quebec is Canada's poorest province as measured by Gross Interior Product per capita, after the Maritime Provinces.) Bouchard's financial restructuring is widely considered to be a first step to solving Quebec's financial problems."

First, I don't see how being having the highest tax rate in North America harms the province's finances, isn't it the opposite? Second, it almost makes out Quebec as poor compared to other provinces. The difference is extremely small, and besides Quebec is gaining on them. And the last sentence needs some clarification.

I agree that this is a very risky and debatable passage, especially the link made with taxes. It should be modified, or removed. --Liberlogos 23:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree - anyone who has studied basic economics knows that a high tax rate inhibits economic growth. This is a positive remark regarding Mr. Bouchard, and should be left as-is.

The influence of the October Crisis

Trudeau's martial law being a major influence in Mr. Bouchard's political orientations IS HARD FACT. This DID influence in a great way his becoming an independentist, a sovereigntist (or, as it was written, a so-called "separatist", a word used only in partisan discourse in Quebec). This is taken from his autobiography, "À visage découvert" (available in English as "On the Record"), pages 84 to 86. Allow me to me translate.

Upon this occured the October Crisis: kidnappings, murder, war measures. My accomodations with federalism, already quite fragile and quite conditional, got out shaken. I discovered with great fear how easy it is, for a small faction ready for anything, to overbalance a government in repression and a society in psychosis. Travelling for my business, I saw the army in Montreal. I witnessed the incarceration, with no legal charge, of innocent people and was turned upside down, that famous Saturday night, by the discovery of the cadaver of Pierre Laporte in the trunk of a car, in Saint-Hubert.

I recognised neither my country, neither its justice. Furthermore, I was profoundly disappointed by the men that I, so modestly, had helped to get elected, in Ottawa and in Quebec City. Today less than ever, I cannot succeed in understanding how could collapse this way the democratic reflexes of Trudeau, Marchand and Pelletier. On the subject of collapses, the one of Robert Bourassa did not appear to me more honorable, since it is then that he developed his habit of bringing the federal army in Quebec.

I had to acknowledge the obvious: René Lévesque had been the only one to stand up and embody, in dignity, the democratic values of Quebec.

Then, Pierre Trudeau revealed, once and for all, with an insistance that was akin to provocation, his relentless obsession of maintaining Quebec in the status of a province, simple module, like the nine others, of a system made subject to the control of the center. The Quiet Revolution was indeed over. It could not go further, blocked by the rigidity of structures that the intransigence of English Canada condemned to immutability. I recognised the validity of the arguments that René Lévesque was drawing from the necessity, for Quebecers, of assuming themselves as a people and to take their matters in hand. I told myself that the slow unfurling of our collectivity could only result in the plenitude of its powers and its responsabilities.

Almost without realising it, I became "indépendantiste". I cannot specify neither the day nor the week, since there was neither a crisis or a rift.

He then ends the chapter with his telling of the 1973 campaign he participated in, with the Parti Québécois. This all proves the importance of these events in his political evolution. --Liberlogos 23:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I do not contest October Crisis shakened Bouchard, and contributed to his political shift from canadian federalist to Quebec independentist (or separatist: I wouldn't have used such a word in French, since it has a negative connotation - well, at least in Quebec, not elsewhere in the francophony -, but this is perfectly unambiguous and neutral in English: "independentist" is a synonimous neologism, and "sovereigntist" is a new use of a very old word from monarchic times). I was just pointing out it seems hard to really jugde how important, immediate or durable this influence really was at the time (around 1973), and my changes were just meant to reflect this. What Bouchard said of the October Crisis in "À visage découvert" in 1992 was highly contested by many, including Trudeau (remember the «J'accuse Lucien Bouchard!» open letter to La Presse, 03 February 1996 ?). A thesis from the journalist Michel Vastel in "Lucien Bouchard : en attendant la suite" is that Bouchard is highly preocupied giving proper justifications for all its past actions, and it explains why he now draws such a dark portrait of the October 1970 events. So it is more a matter of appreciation: I will not shout if you feel the explanation need to be reinforced, or even reverted -- Sylvain, Sun Sep 4 15:50:11 EDT 2005

Playing a toon

On a lighter note, let me say both Aislin (Gazette) & Chapleau (La Presse) called him their favorite character to draw: "The Prince of Darkness". Trekphiler 16:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Flesh eating disease

Suggesting that Bouchard is the most famous victim of flesh eating disease is a rather grand statement. In fact, it is a rather subjective statement and it should be deleted.

Modified the text to more NPOV language. If the original person who put this in can provide a reference, that would help. Thanks! dr.ef.tymac 04:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

actually this is true... and here is a source. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/hospital-infections/flesh_eating.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.240.192 (talk) 00:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Bouchard and Anglophones, Allophones

There is no hard evidence to indicate that Bouchard was regarded favorably by Anglophones and Allophones. The assertion that he was regarded favorably is based on opinion, not fact, and it should be removed from the posting.

Absurdly worshipful

I have no particular views on Canadian politics, but to an outsider it is obvious that the overall tone of this is POV-laden. I have removed a few of the glaring partisan unsourceable statements. DGG 07:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Whilst a Mulroney Cabinet Minister

The Bloc's founder served as Brian Mulroney's secretary of state. Lucien Bouchard was the minister in charge of the Canadian Citizenship Act, official language policy and the Canada Day ceremonies on Parliament Hill. When reporters asked about his earlier sovereignist leanings, Bouchard replied: "I am a Canadian. Who can doubt it? I am very proud to be a Canadian."[1]Toddsschneider 01:45, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessment

I have assessed this as a Start Class, as it contains a fair amount of detail and organization, but requires in-line citations. I have assessed this as Mid importance, as I feel that many people outside of Canada would have at least a passing familiarity, though not an in-depth knowledge, of the subject of the article. Cheers, CP 15:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)