Talk:Lovers and Friends (song)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lovers and Friends (song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 11:32, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Haven't reviewed one of your articles in a while; this is for the GAN backlog drive! --K. Peake 11:32, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Pipe Usher to Usher (musician)

Piped in infobox. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Release date in the infobox is not sourced in the body; you need to write it was released as well as played on radio

It is stated in the background section that there was no official release date, only that it was played in radio during the time. Per Template:Infobox song#released, do I indicate the album release date in the lead? — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

You are using the single template though; should you actually switch to the standard song one or did radio play indicate single releases in 2004? If the former, then add the album release date but this doesn't need to be directly written in the lead since the year is in brackets. --K. Peake 08:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I have seen sources indicate that it is a single from the album. I will include the album release date with a hidden note. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 12:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I changed this back to the year 2004 since if there's no exact date for a single, use the year that is known for it. --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove the recording date since it is only sourced for Usher's parts

Removed recording date. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• WP:OVERLINK of all the performers under songwriters

Removed links. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

 Comment: this was in reference to the performing artists on the song; Sterling was not overlinked so re-add that pipe. --K. Peake 08:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Re-added wikilink for Michael Sterling. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 12:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove pipe on rap

Removed wikilink. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Add a comma after Ludacris' name in the first sentence, mentioning the song being "from the group's fifth and final studio album, Crunk Juice (2004)."

Expanded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Move the R&B slow jam part of the release sentence to being in the sentence mentioning the melody and hook instead; start by writing it was released here in this new revision

Moved further down in lead. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Write "from the album" instead in this sentence since the studio album introduction should be moved to the opening

Rewrote sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• ""Lovers and Friends" was written by" → "The song was written by" moving this to being the second sentence instead

Rewrote and moved. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "and Michael Sterling. It was produced" → "and Michael Sterling, while produced"

Rewrote sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Move the sample part to being after the melody and hook in the following sentence, plus the year 1990 is not notable for the lead

Moved sample and removed year. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Start this sentence with "An R&B slow jam, the song consists..."

Expanded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove the word soft from the lead

Removed word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• After "and hook," add the sample that is contained but remove the parts about vocals since they're not notable for the lead

Moved sample and removed vocals in following sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "some critics praised the production, while others" → "some praised the production, while other reviewers"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• I think you should also mention the position on the New Zealand Singles Chart

Added New Zealand chart in same sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Add a sentence mentioning the music video that never materialized

Added sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove the release years of the songs, as this info is not notable for the lead

Removed release years. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Background and release

• Merge with the first para of the below section, retitling to Background and composition

Merged with below section and retitled. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove comma after fourth studio album

Removed comma. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "since Usher did" → "since Usher had finished the album and did" per the source

Expanded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "to include on" → "to create a version for inclusion on" plus remove wikilink on the album and the release year in brackets

Reworded sentence, removed wikilink and release year. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "did not intend to" → "had not intended to" for correct tense

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "paperwork complications such as" → "paperwork complications, such as"

Added comma. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "on radio in 2004, despite not being" → "on the radio in 2004, despite it not having being"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Add a sentence about the song's eventual single release with the appropriate source(s)

I don't think the song was commercially released to become a single. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Merge the second para with the above one, as three sentences is appropriate to be merged

Merged paragraphs. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "and deliberately chose Usher to appear since no would" → "and revealed he deliberately chose Usher to appear since nobody would"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "after directing the music video" → "after having directed the video"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "came into fruition, as none of the artists'" → "came to fruition, as none of their" plus write record labels instead of labels

Reworded sentence and removed pipe. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Composition and critical reception

• Retitle to Critical reception; move the first para to being the second of the above section

Renamed section and moved paragraph. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• ""Lovers and Friends" is an" → "Musically, "Lovers and Friends" is an"

Added word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "Michael Sterling's 1990 song of" → "Sterling's 1990 song of"

Removed name. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Remove second pipe on rap

Removed wikilink. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "Ludacris ad-libs the lyric during the closing refrain," → "The former ad-libs during the closing refrain:"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "to do it again"." → "to do it again."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences

Moved quotation mark. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Try to add at least a sentence about the song's lyrical meaning since this info is supposed to be in comp as a norm

I have expanded the background, composition and critical reception sections with new citations. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe add a mention of the lyrical meaning to the lead now it's been discussed in the body? --K. Peake 08:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Added lyrical mention to lead; it is re-worded from the composition section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 12:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "stated that R&B artists" → "stated that any R&B artist"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "lyrically consisted of a" → "lyrically consists of a"

Changed to present tense. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "Writing in an album review for" → "Writing in album reviews for"

Added plural. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• You should use current tense instead for terms like "altered" and "was" because the song and album are still available

Changed words in section to present tense. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Are you sure it shouldn't be written they said the introduction is Chris Rock-styled since he doesn't actually perform it?

They seemed to acknowledge that Chris Rock performed the song. It is also confirmed on a December 2, 2004 article by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution here: "[...] movie star Chris Rock provides --- or more specifically, yells --- three kind-of-funny interludes" — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Shouldn't his actual contribution be mentioned in comp then, keeping the review here though since this is an opinion? --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The Chris Rock skit is a recurring interlude on Crunk Juice, similar to those from Eminem albums and The College Dropout. They are not part of this song. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• "which segued to" → "which segues into"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Write at the start of the second para, "Some reviewers were more critical."

Added sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Add "the" before Herald Sun

Added word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• The review is unclear; specify the contrast was, i.e was one of the songs compared positively to "Yeah!" or was it mentioned as a song that "Lovers and Friends" should've resembled?

Most of the review is contained in this sentence: "Jon shows off his new stature with big-name guests. Ice Cube is in form on Real N---a Roll Call, and Rick Rubin helms the Slayer- sampling Stop F---in' Wit' Me. The only downside? Jon reunites with Usher and Ludacris for Lovers and Friends, which, unfortunately, is closer to Usher's balladic B-side Red Light than Yeah!". I am not sure how to word this in the section without including the other guest appearances. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Change to something like ""Red Light", expressing a desire for it to be more similar to "Yeah!"." --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Re-worded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• "considered it to be" → "regarded it to be"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Commercial performance and legacy

• "the lack of retail release." → "the lack of a retail release."

Added word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "where it remained for" → "on which it lasted for"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "debuted at the number 10 peak on the chart" → "debuted and peaked at number 10 on the issue" to be less repetitive

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "debuted at the number 36 peak on" → "debuted at its peak of number 36 on"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• [33] should be solely at the end of the first sentence due to backing up both samples

Removed first instance of citation, rearranged citation order on the subsequent sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "sampled Sterling's song." → "sampled Sterling's song too."

Added word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "on his part" → "in his part"

Replaced word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• The word "American" is not needed before the rapper introduction to Pitbull since the last artists mentioned are of this nationality

Removed nationality. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "was the lead single from his debut studio album," → "was released as the lead single from his debut studio album"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "which T-Pain requested for Lil Jon's verse" → "with him requesting for the rapper's verse"

Reworded sentence. Not sure if "him" and "rapper" would be ambiguous to identify the artists. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Is the word "initially" appropriate when it is not said that the remainder was played?

Removed the word; unspecified if it was played. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• "titled the Lovers and Friends Festival was named after" → "was named the Lovers and Friends Festival after"

Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Track listing

• Good

Credits and personnel

• Either add the locations after the studios in brackets or using commas

Added locations with wikilinks. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• The interpolation should not be here, as that is not recording info

Removed interpolation information. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• I would suggest using div col to separate the personnel because there is a reasonably large amount of them involved

Added div col template to personnel subsection. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Shouldn't the performing artists be wikilinked here?

I was a bit cautious about MOS:DUPLINK for the first instance in the article. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

This is valid here, I guess. --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• Pipe mixing to Audio mixing (recorded music) instead

Re-piped word. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Pipe Michael Sterling to Michael Sterling (musician)

There might be issues with MOS:DUPLINK. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Not correct since he is not a performer, just a songwriter. --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Re-added wikilink. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• I did not know about the inclusion of guitar until getting to this section; add to comp that the song includes guitar and then write who contributed it

Added guitar and keyboard contributors to composition section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Sweet! --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Charts

• Good

References

• Copyvio score looks amazing at 12.8%!!!
• Make sure all of these are archived by using the tool

Everything should be archived. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• MOS:CAPS issues with refs 4 and 20

Removed caps from ref 4, not sure how to do so in ref 20 when there is an article here with the same style. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Removed caps in Los Angeles Times if it was initially ref 20. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 15:21, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I checked the old revision and saw that this was ref 20, but things do get confusing when refs are moved around in articles. --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• Wikilink ProQuest on ref 9

The first instance at The Atlanta Journal-Constitution in ref 4 is already wikilinked. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Fix MOS:QWQ issues with ref 38

Used single quotations. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; shouldn't long since you're relatively active and the article isn't very large! --K. Peake 08:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I made changes to most of the article but there are a few questions mainly in the composition section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Angryjoe1111: Thanks for putting the effort into this; I have left comments wherever relevant. --K. Peake 06:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I have made changes to all the added comments now. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Angryjoe1111: ✓ Pass now, I appreciate the well-timed responses! --K. Peake 08:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Thanks again for reviewing the article. I noticed your edits during the process of expanding Slow Jamz and thought you might be interested in nominating the article to GA one day. Most of the article is thoroughly sourced, but there are some issues in the accolades, music video and popular culture sections, as well as determining whether keeping both covers in the infobox violates WP:NFCC#3a and WP:NFCC#8. I am perfectly fine if you want to promote the article without me, but there are still a lot of issues which I do not immediately intend to fix at the moment such as WP:INDISCRIMINATE award nominations, and limited information in the music video and popular culture sections. If you need to verify or find more information in each citation, all the citations in the article are from ProQuest, which needs WP:LIBRARY account to access. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:44, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Angryjoe1111 I may nominate the article one day but it is not on my radar currently, though I'll get the account for ProQuest if the nomination becomes something of my significant interest. That song really is a tune though, do you think maybe we could nominate together eventually? --K. Peake 14:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Sure, I'm happy to help. Feel free to reach out once you are ready to nominate the song. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:00, 15 July 2021 (UTC)