Talk:Lou Saban

Lou Saban has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 5, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

Biography: Sports and Games

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Collier

Lou Saban's page makes reference to Joe Collier and the subsequent coach for the Buffalo Bills. That name is incorrect. Correct name is Joel Collier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.20.209.107 (talk) 19:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lou Saban/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Go Phightins! (talk · contribs) 20:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I will review this article. Go Phightins! 20:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks and apologies it's taken me so long to get to this -- I've had some real-life stuff come up. Anyhow, these look like great suggestions as usual, and I'll work through them now. --Batard0 (talk) 15:22, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I get the general vibe that this comes from a bio on a team website in the first paragraph.
- Agreed. It needs some adjustments for encyclopedic tone. I tried to make some tweaks here and there in an attempt to make it less glib and more neutral, but let me know if it still sounds off and I'll try to make some other adjustments.

Playing career

I'm not a huge fan of the first sentence in the high school section. Perhaps you could rephrase that a bit.
- I made an attempt to fix this by flipping around the order of the sentence, but can make further adjustments if you like. --Batard0 (talk) 15:22, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Improved. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This may be solely because I don't live in Illinois, but I'm not familiar with what a high school conference is, perhaps you could subtly explain that.
- I changed it to "the athletic conference in which his high school played" in hopes that that clarifies it a bit. I could perhaps make it even clearer by saying "his high school's athletic conference, a grouping of schools from the area", but that would require some other changes to make it flow into the following material...I can do this, though, if you think it'd be a good idea. --Batard0 (talk) 15:22, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I made a minor adjustment. I imagine it's similar to a "class" or "section" which is what they're called in my neck of the woods. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did he walk on at Indiana, or was he on scholarship?
- This isn't clear from the sources, so I'm not sure. One says he was a sophomore in 1941, so must have been a freshman in 1940. The other obit says after high school he starred at Indiana, without saying whether he was on a scholarship. I'm having some trouble finding any sources that answer the question, so I've left it for now. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - No problem, that was just a minor thing that came up in a GAR of my own, so I thought I may as well bring it up here. No biggy. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What is a blocking quarterback?
- I've changed this slightly, because the source doesn't say "blocking quarterback" in any event. It just says he was used as a quarterback. This may have been in there before I started looking at it, though I'm not sure -- I could have added it. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - All right. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Define "sporadically"
- Changed to "occasionally" for clarity. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Good. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any significance to Ray Ride, or was he just the prior coach?
- There's no real significance to him, so I removed that part of the sentence. He was just the previous coach. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - OK. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coaching career

Change 4-4 to four wins and four losses
- Fixed. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Good Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Good players" seems a bit peacocky, not sure what to change it to, but I'd look to make that more quantitative if possible.
- I changed it to "talent including O.J. Simpson" and then said how many yards and touchdowns he had that year to make it more quantitative. --Batard0 (talk) 15:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Was money his sole motivation when he went to Miami?
- That's not clear from any of the sources I have, but I added "reportedly" to the salary figure, because that was what was reported, but it wasn't confirmed by the university. I could get rid of it if you think it's a distraction. --Batard0 (talk) 15:59, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - As long as there are sources to substantiate whatever's there, I think it's fine. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any quotes from colleagues on his reputation for switching from school to school?
- Hmm...I find a bunch of writers calling him an itinerant coach and also Saban responding to it, i.e. lines in an article like "People joke about it," said Saban of his itinerant career. "They laugh about how many jobs I've had." (from Seattle Times) or Saban saying "I have been known as a peripatetic coach" (from AP). There are some quotes from George Steinbrenner here, but it's mostly just fluff saying how great he was, etc. It seems that there ought to be some quotes from colleagues about his itinerant career, but I'm not finding them (at least not yet) in a web, books and news search. --Batard0 (talk) 15:59, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - All right, it just seems a quote would be helpful there. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Address those and I'll come back for a quick look and then likely list it. Nice job as always. Go Phightins! 20:36, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I will look at this again tomorrow...I'm exhausted right now; just got home from a 15 hour day out and about. Go Phightins! 04:26, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All right, I've responded to everything, unless you have anything else, I'm inclined to list it. Go Phightins! 17:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again -- I'm still looking for a quote re: him changing jobs a lot, but weirdly enough I'm still not turning anything up aside from him talking about himself. It would be nice to have, I agree. I did find this video of Bill Veeck talking in part about Saban and him breaking contracts, but I'm a little bit uncomfortable quoting directly from it, since it feels sort of like a primary source. He says: "Probably the greatest exponent of the peripatetic coach is a fellow by the name of Lou Saban, who has ended up in just exactly the right place. He's now president of the New York Yankees. He and George Steinbrenner deserve each other. Both illegitimate. But let me go back to Saban. I knew Saban first when he was playing for the St. Louis Browns [mistake, should be Cleveland Browns], and I had the Indians, and then all of the sudden he shows up as coach, first at Carroll [mistake], then at Northwestern and then he really got into action. He signed five contracts that he broke owing about four years on each." I can easily add this if you think it's valid. --Batard0 (talk) 10:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not a huge deal, I'll list it in a few minutes. Go Phightins! 15:25, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how to edit the table properly, but Jim Caldwell ought to be included in the Tony Dungy branch, off the late Marty Schottenheimer's segment of Saban's coaching tree. Something like this is the relevant info: JC=Jim Caldwell
Colts, 2009–11
Lions, 2014-2017