Talk:Lou Killen

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Gender

The use of gender in this article is awkward. An earlier version of the page used "Killen", rather than He or She. Admittedly that's clumsy, but no more so than editing that to She. Apparently this edit was done to respect her rights as a woman, and no-one can be against that. Having a redirect from Louis Killen to Louisa Jo Killen rather than the other way round is a clear recognition of her gender in later years and at the time of her death. The fact remains, though, that over his long career as a folk musician, during most of those years, Louis was a man. Most of the works for which he became famous were done as a man, although after her gender reassignment, she did continue to perform and have a public life. I'm not trying to pick a fight with any trans-activists here, but simply trying to find a balance between respecting a person's life choices and avoiding revisionism in a historical record. Actually, while writing this, it feels considerably less awkward simply to use the pronoun applicable to the period under discussion. "In his early life, Louis did X, and after her gender reassignment she (or Louisa) did Y"; simply using the pronouns that Louis and later Louisa actually used in his/her life.

Obviously there must be other public figures who have had different genders, or for other reasons have had different names or pronouns at different times in their lives. Is there a wikipedia guideline that might be helpful here? My own personal experience of dealing with a transgender friend (let's call her Joanna) is that it would not feel at all weird to be talking to her about the time before her transition and to say something like "When you were John....", at least in a private conversation. In other words, it's perfectly possible to reflect the truth about someone's past without disrespecting their current status. In this case, Louisa's gender transition is a matter of public record, so privacy is not an issue.

I'm not going to edit the article, as I fear without an explicit basis here in the talk page, there'd be the risk of people with different opinions on this engaging in a revert-fest. In any case, both Louis and Louisa deserve an article that's well-written and reads well. What is the best way to achieve that?

Dominic Cronin (talk) 08:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is Wikipedia:Gender identity, which is an essay rather than a guideline but provides some useful hints. I have no experience of editing in this area, so will defer to those who do. Incidentally, and interestingly, I see that some early recordings (and the discography in this article) use the form "Lou Killen". Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A further comment - I've changed the wording "accompanied herself on the concertina", simply because, at the time Killen performed, they identified as male (as they did until, apparently, three years before their death). So, "also played" avoids the gender issue. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:43, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]