Talk:Lost Padre mine

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Mining

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What name?

Is it "Edumonitors" or "Edumonitors" or "Edumonitors" or even the title, "Edumonitors"? Which is it? --Dthomsen8 (talk) 00:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Made up article

This article has numerous falsehoods in it. The canyon of the supposed mine is in Kern County. The picture of the supposed mineral found is from a mine in Romania. Apart from a Jake Allard Wikipedia page created by the same person who created this one. There is no proof Jake has ever found any mines. Lack of knowledge of the Chumash Indians and the story from Tecuya who was the originator of the story. Dates of mining tools from the 18th century but yet no proof. Eagles rest is drastically farther than mines on doc canyon. Which has a mine located at the base of the canyon. Article seems to be written by Jake Allard to validate a made up narrative. Factfixer8675309 (talk) 08:12, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I PRODed Jake Allard, and assuming that leads to deletion there (or AFD next), material here related to him can likewise be removed. Otherwise, those processes would help validate his notability, presumably in relation to this mining project, and we can re-evaluate the level of detail and reliability assigned to his work here. DMacks (talk) 09:07, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've been in touch with Jake Curtis Allard, the person referenced in this entry. We discussed at length the material as presented on Wikipedia. Allard freely admits much of this information is either not accurate or not relevant to the topic being discussed. He says the material was written by a third party and was posted without his knowledge. He thinks the information is based on an old blog he used to have on the web that has since been deleted. Allard has asked me to help him correct and update the information. However, there is nothing in his investigations that is allowed according to the Wikipedia guidelines. Personal accounts and "original research" is not permitted. So I'm proposing to edit the entry accordingly (subject to any feedback here).

Note: I'm new to Wikipedia and still finding my way, so I hope I'm following the correct protocol to edit this entry in order to improve it.

Lost Padre (talk) 17:11, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Through Jake Allard, I also contacted John P. Edwards, the other person referred to in the entry. In correspondence, Edwards explained his grandfather did not find any Spanish mines but had a theory about where he thought such a mine might be found. He was searching for an exposed gold ledge described in a legend featuring an Indian chief named Tecuya (who is a fictional character). Based on this discussion, I edited the Edwards story that appears under the sub-heading "Twentieth century" to more accurately reflect Edwards' story. However, this speculation does not meet the requirements for an entry in Wikipedia and therefore I propose that sub-section be removed. It is clearly "original research" that has no reliable published references. It is basically hear say. This is not to say I don't believe the story, it is plausible. It is just that it doesn't belong on Wikipedia.

In an effort to improve the article, I updated the "lead" sentence. The original entry referred to "the San Emigdio municipality" which does not exist, and stated San Emigdio Canyon was in Ventura County when it is really in Kern County.

I removed the link to the photograph of the mineralized sample because it was from a mine in Romania and had no relevance to southern California. The other photo is not really appropriate either because it does not show the area being discussed but is instead a panorama of an adjacent area taken from about 40 miles away. A more appropriate photo might show, for example, something of San Emigdio Canyon.

The film under the sub-heading "In popular culture" has no relevance. It is a dramatized story of a lost mine in another state, Texas, and has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

Jake Allard told me he found out later that the young person who created this entry (without this knowledge) did so in order to impress a girl he knew. In other words, the intention was to use Wikipedia for purposes other than an online encyclopedia.

The whole entry is essentially a made-up story, none of which is allowed by Wikipedia guidelines. From a factual point of view, it is largely inaccurate and/or misleading. At best it might be classed as "original research" which is not permitted on Wikipedia.

Although references are used, none of them are relevant or help to substantiate the account. The first reference is about a completely different lost mine in Texas from a much earlier time in history....and therefore has no relevance. The second reference is a dead link. The third reference is just a generic map, and the fourth reference is to a dramatic film that is clearly not relevant to this topic. The article completely lacks any reliable references to published sources. I agree with the comments above that this is a made up story that can not be verified and does not constitute a proper encyclopedic entry.

I propose the best course of action is to delete this entry from Wikipedia entirely.

Lost Padre (talk) 20:53, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removed image "Overlooking the eastern half of Tejon Ranch from the Tehachapi Crest of the Tehachapi Mountains, one of the Transverse Ranges" since it does not show the area being discussed in the article. Removed the dead link "Glaciers of California | Glaciers of the American West". Removed reference to the book "Spirits Of The Border: The History And Mystery Of Ft. Bliss Texas" because it refers a different lost mine and is therefore off topic and not relevant. Removed the section under the subheading "In popular culture" since it is a dramatic film referring to another lost mine in a different state (Texas) and is not relevant to the topic.

I'm finding it is impossible to improve the article through a process of correction. Since it was a bogus article to begin with, it needs to be completely re-written.

Lost Padre (talk) 15:52, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The next step to improve the article is to change the page title for the following reason: The original generic title is nonspecific since it can refer to a number of legends about lost mines from former Spanish colonies around the world that refer to a "Lost Padre Mine". The mine referred to in the article is located in the vicinity of San Emigdio Canyon in Kern County in southern California. Changing the page title makes it specific to the topic by specifying that the article is about one particular lost mine, namely a lost mine in southern California as distinct for other lost mines in Texas, Mexico etc.

As suggested by DMacks on 15 January 2019‎, I will post a completely revised article that is fully referenced and based on historical fact (that I believe is consistent with Wikipedia guidelines).

Lost Padre (talk) 18:27, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]