Talk:Los Angeles Kings/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Reverting my edits

In the Current Roster section I changed Patick O'Sullivan's birthplace from Winston-Salem, NC to Toronto. And I changed Brady Murray's flag from Canadian to American because he played for the USA at the WJC. However, people keep reverting these edits, why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canuck85 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

There is some conflicting information about O'Sullivan's place of birth. His Wikipedia article says he was born in Toronto, but raised in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. However, his NHL bio, the 2006-07 Kings Media Guide and the 2006-07 NHL Guide and Record Book state that he was born in Winston-Salem. As such, for the time being, I think we need to go with the official publications until we get something conclusive that contradicts them. As for Murray, he was born in Brandon, Manitoba, and that is found in the 2006-07 Kings Media Guide as well. The flag represents country of birth, not what national team they play for, from what I understand.

I'll have my copy of the 2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide and a copy of the 2007-08 NHL Guide and Record Book next week after the Kings (and their Communications staff) are back home from London, so I can check those sources to see if the information has changed. -- Gmatsuda 08:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

What's the word on Paddy? I was talking to him at Tip-a-king last year, and I swear he said he was born in Winston-Salem. I think his parents are Canadians, living there as ex-pats. But my son was annoying me to go to see Kopitar, so I don't remember the whole conversation. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

For some reason, my media guide hasn't arrived yet. I had to miss the home opener due to a previous commitment, so I had the Communications staff mail it to me. Oh well. As soon as I get the media guide, either today or tomorrow, or at the next home game (Friday), I'll check it to see if the birthplace has changed. -- Gmatsuda 18:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The 2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide states that O'Sullivan's birthplace is Winston-Salem, North Carolina. -- Gmatsuda 04:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

We should probably go with the official publications, as you said, for now. But just to mention it, in the hockey articles we put the national flag for the country whose national team they play for, not where they are from...though they may be one and the same, ofcourse. So for Murray, regardless of where he was born, if he plays for America, an American flag should be next to his name. That is unless WP:HOCKEY policy has changed in that regard since I was last active sometime in June. Bsroiaadn^{Let's Go Devils!} 04:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I was just handed my copy of the National Hockey League Official Guide & Record Book 2008, and it too lists O'Sullivan's birthplace as Winston-Salem, North Carolina. -- Gmatsuda 01:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Unusual case for Sens' player Nick Foligno. Born in the US to Canadian dad, grew up in Canada, though has played for US national junior program, but played major junior in Canada (for his dad who was coach). Has dual citizenship even. He played for USA so we've listed him with the US flag, although he's spent most of his life in Canada. The policy is definitely to go with national team affiliation. Alaney2k 00:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Robitaille footnote

Could somebody fixed the captaincy footnote - Gretzky resumed his role as captain in January 1993 (upon returning from injury). Gretz wasn't renamed captain (as he was never stripped of the captaincy), he was still captain during injury. GoodDay 18:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure that's accurate, and there's no publication that I know of that confirms either possibility. That said, it's really small potatoes, so I don't really think we need to worry about it. -- Gmatsuda 20:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, come on - afterall, I've given up the interim thing. Plus, we've no sources saying Gretz was stripped of the captaincy, during his injury status. GoodDay 20:11, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

LOL...seriously speaking, we really don't know what the situation was. I still don't think it's something we need to worry about. -- Gmatsuda 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I had to try something (even humour), but I'll drop the request. GoodDay 20:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey...no worries...it's all good. :-) No offense...I just don't see that this is important enough to worry about. -- Gmatsuda 21:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Should we not note Robitaille's captaincy for his last game? I know he wore the C for that game and I don't see it listed, or is it because it wasn't officially noted by any of the publications? Shootmaster 44 00:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

My feeling would be no, since it was only for one game (his second to last game) and he is not credited for it in any official publications (2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide or the 2008 NHL Official Guide and Record Book). -- Gmatsuda 01:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Archived older messages

FYI: I've created the first archive for this talk page. -- Gmatsuda 07:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Working on rewrite

I'm starting work on rewriting this article, getting it ready for GA review. I started with the lead, and I'll gradually work on the rest. -- Gmatsuda 07:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Worked on the Forum Blue and Gold section. Hopefully, I'm on the right track. -- Gmatsuda 10:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I haven't had to time to work on this lately, but I haven't forgotten about it... -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Jerseys

I've added the current Kings' jerseys, but they've been reverted out of the article. Possibly this is a topic for discussion? Alaney2k 21:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem is the source of the photo. Where did you get it and did the owner grant permission to use it? -- Gmatsuda 22:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem remains that you do not have owner's permission to post those photos. I have seen them before, and either the photographer or the LA Kings own that image. Please see Wikipedia:Non-free content. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:15, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I am incorrect in my interpretation, but the fair use of logos in low resolution applies here, no? What I did was use the jersey illustrations from shop.nhl.com, merged the two home and away images, without changes, which are released to the public to identify products, and contain the logo. I'll look up your reference, certainly. Alaney2k 22:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not that simple. Images from the NHL's web site are generally not usable, AFAIK. -- Gmatsuda 22:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe they are usable for commentary purposes, as mentioned on Wikipedia:Non-free content. In this case, the jersey has changed and the image illustrates this. I don't work for the NHL and I am not trying to push the jersey sales. Alaney2k 22:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Another example are the player portraits on the NHLPA's site. One could claim that using them here is OK under fair use. However, I believe the NHLPA complained and they are no longer used. You can't just claim fair use and then use it. You have to be able to prove that the way you're using the photo constitutes fair use and that there is no public domain alternative. -- Gmatsuda 22:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

After reading Wikipedia:Non-free content, I don't see anything in there that says it's OK to use the photo in question. -- Gmatsuda 22:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You guys need to fix up the rationale on the Kings logo image. The template is unfilled. I guess the bots don't check all the fields. You'll need to fix that up for GA status of the article. I didn't look at the rest of the images. I'll leave my uploaded image alone and the image will get deleted and I'll leave it at that. Alaney2k 22:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Alaney, I've seen wars over images too much on here. It's not worth it. Unless there are explicit permissions to use them, we shouldn't. The NHL owns those images, and if you can convince them to allow use on this article, then that would be great. However, merging two pictures is probably not going to fly.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've not been editing that long, I was unaware of these controversies. I'm not interested in warring over it! I brought it up for discussion because at first the adds were just removed, so I was curious why. Good luck with your GA process. I'm trying to get Ottawa Senators to GA level myself. I wouldn't want to mess up your review. Alaney2k 23:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I should also mention that we have a GA review on the Talk for Ottawa Senators. We didn't pass. Some of the points might be helpful here too? E.g. one sentence paragraphs should be merged into larger paragraphs? Alaney2k 23:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm slowly working on that...see the section above... -- Gmatsuda 23:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

All-Time team

I was at this game, covering it for thw two web sites I write for, so I was there for the naming of the Kings' All-Time team. In fact, if I recall, I got to vote on that (media other than the local beat writers generally don't get to vote on stuff like the three stars). However, i apparently didn't write a story that included that information, so I can't use that as a reference, and I can't find anything on Google. Anyone got something we can cite as a reference? If no one has anything, I guess I could ask the Kings... -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Danny Taylor

I noticed that every time I place Danny Taylor on the Kings' roster, his name is changed to Daniel Taylor. I realize this is a small issue, but I'm curious why that is? According to the ECHL transactions he goes by Danny not Daniel. I missed the game the other night when he played for LA, but as far as I can tell his name is Danny. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 05:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

According to the Kings and the Monarchs, his name is Daniel. He is listed in both media guides as Daniel. And when I interviewed him after Thursday's game, I asked what he prefers. He prefers Daniel. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 08:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess that makes sense. I wonder where the whole Danny business in the ECHL came from? Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Not sure, but I just read an article in the Reading Eagle that refers to him as "Danny." But since both the Kings and Monarchs media guides have him listed as "Daniel," that's really what we should go by. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 04:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright, then I will make the appropriate changes to the Monarchs and Royals pages. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Ponikarovksy

what is going on here? why on the roster does it have the soviet flag and kiev, USSR??? what is this? 74.14.87.235 (talk) 20:41, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Because the birth places are as of birth as is standard across wikipedia. When he was born Kiev was in the USSR. As for the flag, someone changed it a few hours ago incorrectly so I changed it back. Should be the Ukraine flag since he played for them in the Olympics. -DJSasso (talk) 21:05, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Recent Edits Are Largely Unsourced

Great work by those who have been contributing to this article in recent months. I wish I had the time to do so, as I did awhile back. One thing I wanted to urge you all to do is to be sure to add inline citations when you add/edit the article. Just about every fact you add/update must be verifiable, per Wikipedia policies. You can find the proper way to write citations at Wikipedia:Citation templates. Thanks again for the great work! -- Gmatsuda (talk) 09:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Unsourced, and pretentious. They are the road to the Stanley Cup, but they have not won it yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.8.26.62 (talk) 03:22, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

If I had the time, I'd go through and add citations to the edits made over the last what...year, or so, since people have started working on this article again. Sadly, I don't have time, other than to keep an eye on it. But the fact remains that the recent edits that I just referred to are largely unsourced,as I stated above. That's why I added the refimprove tag. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 22:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 June 2012

in 2012 the kings won the stanley cup against the devils in 6 games winning the series 4-2

24.47.98.186 (talk) 02:48, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

• This was posted a few minutes early, but yes... it's official. The Kings have (finally) conquered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.208.191 (talk) 02:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mdann52 (talk) 10:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Stanley Cup Champions!

The 8th seeded Los Angeles Kings won their first Stanley Cup June 11, 2012, as they beat the 6th seeded New Jersey Devils. This is the first time in the 4 major sports that a Championship was won by a number 8 seed. The Kings finished 16-4, demolishing every team in their way. Round 1 vs Vancouver: 4-1, Round 2 vs St. Louis: 4-0, Round 3 vs Phoenix: 4-1, Round 4 vs New Jersey: 4-2. This Championship marks their first Championship in franchise history, it took them 45 years to obtain it. 108.23.23.193 (talk) 05:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I don't really know anything about Ice Hockey (it isn't that big here in the UK), so I need more info 10:11, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's one--UnQuébécois (talk) 18:38, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's another--UnQuébécois (talk) 18:47, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Change already happened anyways. -DJSasso (talk) 18:49, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Royal Mess

The wording "Royal Mess" has been removed from the section heading for "Rebuilding (2002–03 to 2008–09)". This appears to be a WP:WEASEL or WP:PEACOCK wording which is not written from a neutral point of view. If a citation can be found where a columnist or other source made reference to the term "Royal Mess", then please include it in the article. — MrDolomite • Talk 16:12, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sure the phrase "royal mess" has been used many times by writers who think they are clever. Regardless, it remains POV as a section title, and serves as a good example how how our editors aren't any wittier than your average headline writer. Resolute 18:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

David Courtney

As great as David Courtney was as the Kings' public address announcer until he passed away on November 29, 2012, the section recently added about him in the article is problematic. First, it's riddled with POV statements. Second, it is entirely unreferenced, and finally, given that an even bigger legend among Southern California public address announcers, John Ramsey, who announced games for virtually every team here in the LA area, including the Kings, isn't included in the article (Ramsey was Courtney's mentor), the inclusion of Courtney is suspect.

David was a friend and colleague of mine, but as much as I'd like to honor him, Wikipedia isn't the place to do it. It would be great if someone with the time to do it could not only polish up the blurb here about Courtney, but do justice to John Ramsey as well. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I've just removed it for now. This is going to seem incredibly harsh, especially since he was your friend, but honestly, most PA announcers just aren't notable, at least not in an encylopedic coverage of a hockey team. Courtney doesn't seem any different at first blush. Unless he had some special significance that was not presented (or referenced), I don't think the passage belongs on this article. But a neutrally worded paragraph might be appropriate on 2012–13 Los Angeles Kings season, where the more narrow focus could allow something like this to stand. Resolute 02:11, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

That works. Why didn't I think of that? :-) One thing, though...given that Courtney' passing is still fresh in the minds of folks here, how about posting a message on the author's talk page so they understand why you did that? -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

As for the notability thing, Courtney might actually meet WP:NOTE. Check him out via a Google search. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

If he is actually notable, then that would certainly reinforce the value on the season article. Thanks, Resolute 02:32, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Division Titles

The sections mentioning the Kings winning the Smythe division in 1990-91 are incorrect because division titles were not awarded for finishing first during the regular season at that time. They do still have one division title though because they would have won the 1992-93 Smythe division due to the Kings playoff run that year. Deadman137 (talk) 03:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

We've been over this before. :-) See the Talk page archive. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 08:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2018

Please add Marc-Andre Fleury to the list of owners Lip1978 (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Deadman137 (talk) 13:59, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2018

In the History section of the page, could you please add that the Kings were swept by Vegas? Please. 2602:304:5D47:F779:2D85:E097:B9E8:764 (talk) 00:38, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: That is already covered in the section "Seasion-by-season record" RudolfRed (talk) 00:47, 19 April 2018 (UTC)