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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3


Wrong label

Lordi is a Hard Rock/Rock band, they have nothing to do with metal. Please fix it.Executex 17:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Lordi is a heavy metal band. I hear them all the time on my metal radio station and, well..... HAVE YOU EVEN HEARD THEM, THEY ARE SOOOO TOOO METAL!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.172.237.93 (talk) 23:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

There are many different kinds of metal, and I'm not sure which genre of metal applies to Lordi. Mostly they are a Power Metal band like Hammerfall, because of their use of keyboards and backing vocals, except their lead vocals/costumes are more reminiscent of Black Metal.Walterego 20:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the band, in particular Mr. Lordi himself, are very careful to not call themselves a "metal" band. They are undoubtedly in the hard rock category, but to be fair, they probably should not be categorized as a metal band.HamatoKameko 12:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Whether they are heavy metal or not, enough critics have classified them as such that the genre should be left on there. James25402 19:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Wrong picture, again

The picture in the infobox is again wrong. It shows former band members and fails to show current band members. JIP | Talk 11:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that a still from Eurovision footage would be great, and probably still within fair use Duke toaster 16:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Costumes

dude thier costumes are like a cross between Slipknot ans Kiss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.59.72 (talk • contribs)

"The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views." (Talk Page Guidlines) Keep the conversation article-related, please. -HamatoKameko 03:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Wrong name in band members

Kalma is said to be Pekka Tarvanen with reference to BNR Metal. However it's worth to notice that BNR Metal page has been last edited August 04, 2006 whereas Pekka Tarvanen was first added to wikipedia on July 22, 2006. So it's very likely that the BNR Metal simply took the name from wikipedia and this is a cyclic reference with absolutely no credibility.

On Finnish wikipedia all references to Kalma's real name are already changed to Niko Hurme and it has stronger evidence supporting the name (reference to official Lordi book, band together with Kita with whom he's from same city etc.). There's no evidence supporting Pekka Tarvanen whatsoever. Therefore I'm now editing the page to have same information as Finnish wikipedia. Juhovh 09:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

G-Stealer

About the above 'Former member' that is continuosly added to this article by anons and hastily reverted back out of it, I think he may really exist. Take a look at This from Lordi's official forum. It's quite revealing, but unfortunatly not acceptable as a reference. Also, Finnish Wikipedia has This, a whole article on G-Stealer, which is convincing but, again, not directly referenceable. I couldn't get a decent translation; we need someone who speaks Finnish. A good summing up (in English!) of him con be found at yet a Third unreliable reference. Various other references availible, but all are meaningless to me as they are in Finnish. Hmmm... this sounds like a good challenge! Can anyone get a good reliable cite for him? Or at least track down a free online Finnish-English translater!? For now, I'm putting him back in the article with a fact tag. Blood red sandman 23:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Although, that will rewrite Lordi's early history as written here from scratch if it is verified. Even the date of the forming of the band is made incorrect by it. Blood red sandman 23:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

see lordi book mie oon lordi also pic of him at the back of get heavy master lordi worlds sourse is also the book

"G-Stealer" did indeed exist. "G-Stealer" is the same character as "Kita," played by a different actor/musician. This information is revealed in Kita's biography and back story on the band's official site. To quote, "Kita, also known as the G-Stealer..." There's your proof, and I believe, your citable reference. HamatoKameko 03:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

héy!

héy why dit somebody rewrite the names of lordi?! Please, they asks to DON'T publicate their real names and photo's. Its just don't having respect for their work, they don't use that heavy, very hot costumes because it is fun!!! ...Because this is an encyclopediac article on the Band that should cover all pertinent information - not their website. We know the bands members real names so they should stay in the article. Peripitus (Talk) 23:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Lordi single AfDs

All the articles on Lordi's singles/music videos (bar Hard Rock Hallelujah) have been niminated for deletion; please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Would You Love a Monsterman?, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devil is a Loser, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blood Red Sandman and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Who's Your Daddy? (song) to register an opinion. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Formation date

I've changed the band formation date from 1997 to 1992. Not only did 1997 conflict with the information given in the article, it also conflicts with the formation date given in this article: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Lordi+to+carry+Finnish+Eurovision+greetings+to+Athens+/1135219141003

--Muna 19:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Ozzfest

Can anyone find a source for the quotation in the paragraph? I left it in for now but edited some of the blatant Ozzfest advertising (which really has not got anything to do with Lordi) from it. Pasi 17:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I corrected the Date from the Bloody Holly Festival Gig... :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.52.75.229 (talk) 06:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Great picture!

The new picture is excellent. In fact, it might even be worth nominating it to be a featured picture! If only we could get a group shot of the same quality. Pasi 14:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A group shot would be wonderful. I could have done it in October in Glasgow, but I was too concerned with enjoying the gig (and admiring Awa, bizarre as that may seem) to worry about it. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 15:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

At the Mansfield MA, Ozzfest 2007, Lordi game on stage and played through most of there songs, and it seemed as if they were done. People cheered, and then they came back and started playing again. Parts of the crowd started to boo. ( if anyone has information regarding this that has truely been to the event , please feel free to add to or edit this statement-

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Cleanup

This article was not written by native English speakers and it shows. The grammar needs a total overhaul. I'll help when I have some time. Any takers? -- El Payaso Malo 69.155.122.196 (talk) 00:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Article Names

First of all, I am sure this has been discussed much before, and I know it is debateable whether this is the talk page to mention it on, but I feel it is the best spot. For all the individual member pages, shoudn't the article title be their stage name? I mean the Marilyn Manson, Slash and Johnny Ramone articles all use the stage name for the title. What does everyone else think? Soltake (talk) 01:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a great idea. -- El Payaso Malo 69.155.122.196 (talk) 00:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Pic

Hey, is that picture really all that good for the band article? All you can make out is Mr. Lordi, and barely Amen. Arent there any pictures that show the whole band as is? Sadly, I cant provide one. But can anybody else? Oh, and it almost looks like a bunch of toys, but is that just the costume? The axe seems too give it away from me. Eatingcheese 14:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I have put a photo that features every band members.--Nazzzz (talk) 19:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Could someone upload a picture with the current line-up, with Hella and Mana in the band?--Monsterknight (talk) 19:33, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Another thing

Why is there a Eurovision winners box at the bottom? There should be the one that links the band members, it isnt an article about how they won, its about the band. Please tell me your reasons for putting that up Eatingcheese 14:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a Eurovision winners box at the bottom of other Eurovision winners too, so why not this one? JIP | Talk 19:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Whilst the sources have got lost under all the revisions ...

Why haven't the real names been readded? Duke toaster 16:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

"Beast Loose in Paradise"

While I totally applaud your enthusiasm, until the information is published by a source other than MonsterDiscoHell, this song from the end credits of Dark Floors should not be listed on the article. As well, it's to be released in 2008, not 2007. If the information has been published elsewhere, feel free to add it back--just remember to cite your source. Otherwise, just be patient a bit longer. Believe me, I'm totally dying for new material, too! --HamatoKameko (talk) 03:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. All three of us know it's true, but until we can prove it, we can't add it. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 11:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Genre

OK Lordi is a rock/metal band but they have an active keyboardist so we should call them hard rock/power metal band. Isn't the bands with active keyboardist are power metal bands? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.102.138.186 (talk) 12:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

There is much more to being a power metal band then just having a keyboard player. While I guess Lordi does have a very small amount of power metal influence, I would definitly not classify them as a power metal band. Soltake (talk) 14:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
They aren't power metal. Power metal bands use clean vocals, their lyrics are about ancient natural things, their music is faster bla, bla, bla... While Lordi doesn't sound like Helloween, Iron Maiden, Nightwish or Kamelot and doesn't feature this things, they aren't a power metal band. Anyway, I have added there progressive metal with a reference and referenced other genres.--Nazzzz (talk) 18:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure lyrical content is even an issue when it comes to classifying a genre of music. Are Lordi straight-up power metal? No. Are there elements of power metal in their music. Absolutely. So the question is: is there enough of that power metal element present to add it to the list? I would say yes, especially if we're actually listing progressive metal as one of their styles. --Managerpants (talk) 17:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Well I think that lyrical content is very important when it comes to classifying genres, I mean look at Christian metal and Viking metal. Since the olnly thing even close to power metal that Lordi has in their music is a keyboard, (which by itself does not make a band power metal), they in no way should be classified as power metal. Also, where are you getting prog ressive metal out of Lordi's music? I don't see that at all. So I'm saying that all Lordi articles should be classified as heavy metal and hard rock, or at least until we all come to some consensus here. Soltake (talk) 19:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't consider Viking metal or Christian metal to be valid genres, and I'm far from alone in that opinion. When considering what genre a band's music is, I don't see why the lyrics would factor into that at all. As for Lordi, the presence of a keyboard is hardly the "only thing even close to power metal" in their music. The hook-laden choruses, the army/choir-type vocals, the solos, etc. Listen to something like "It Snows in Hell" and tell me that doesn't sound like power metal to you. :-) --Managerpants (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Shouldnt Shock Rock be there? They fulfill all of the requirments, as anyone whos seen them live will say. And I reject to calling them metal. There not so much metal as they are hard rock with metallic roots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.166.2 (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
My vote goes to having them listed as hard rock, shock rock, and heavy metal because I can see how it can be argued that they are indeed metal. I do not however think that they should be called prog metal because I can safely say I've never confused Dream Theater with Lordi. Soltake (talk) 20:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
So should Prog metal and power metal be deleted from there genre box? (I added Shock Rock just now) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.166.2 (talk) 16:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I deleted them both. Only metal they have ever made is death metal in their roots and two first records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Talvimiekka (talk • contribs) 18:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is Shock Rock there? Lordi is not a shock rock band, they are a heavy metal/power metal band —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.59.243.122 (talk) 19:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Dont be dumb. Do you knwo what Shock Rock is? How cna you say ther enot?
Also, saying they have death metal roots is equally retarted. There metallic roots come from 80's metal styles like power metal, glam metal, and traditional heavy metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.225.242 (talk) 04:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd say they were more Shock Rock related, as the majority of the band members like Hanoi Rocks, Twisted Sister and KISS and cite them as their main influences 217.171.129.72 (talk) 13:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, i don't think Lordi does power metal at all, neither shock rock, cause shock rock is mostly some industrial stuff where as Lordi plays melodeath and glam metal. They're evil, play heavy and fast so theyre death metal, but to be honest are Lordi also goth metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.152.11 (talk) 10:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


A lot of you are debating about your opinions of Lordi's genre. What you need to do is follow the Wiki Policy and cite reliable sources that give a genre for Lordi. BreakerLOLZ (talk) 23:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


Just a reminder to editors, the genre "shock rock" is not to be added unless a reliable source can be cited. Thank you. -HamatoKameko (talk) 19:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

"Inferno Video"

"The video has not been released because Putaansuu is in the video without a mask, but he has promised to put the video in the upcoming Lordi DVD." Where did you get this from? All Lordi members have promised their fans to never appear without masks. I am certain that if I ask Mr. Lordi himself about this he will laugh. At least that's what I did when I read it. So I'm going to remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.149.199.139 (talk) 13:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Backing Singers

If you look on the official forum, Awa says that she has never sung ANY of the backing vocals on "The Arockalypse" as she can't sing very well. ALL of the backing vocals are done by Mr Lordi and Kita, as they both can sing. Have edited the page accordingly 217.171.129.72 (talk) 13:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'm pretty sure Magnum sang backing vocals on "Last Kiss Goodbye", which is why they won't perform the song in concert. So, you are slightly off-base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gogandantess (talk • contribs) 12:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

--User:Gogandantess (talk) 12:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Check the accuracy of this edit please

Could someone check the accuracy of this edit by an anonymous user? Perhaps add some sources to the discography section too. Cheers, --Commander Keane (talk) 09:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

this article is a bloody mess

listen i love lordi, and i check this page often, so im dissapointed with how disorganized it is. theres no band history section at all, its just events made into sections put in chronological order. and you cant put a section about changing the record label in the middle of the article with no relation to the sections around it. and why is the musical style section in the band member tab?

this article needs a HUGE overhaul Ritzbitz00 (talk) 21:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

somebody really needs to fix this article, the grammar and organization are horrific. people are editing this article, i checked the history, so why dont you spend five minutes making this article a little more... readable. 68.44.24.243 (talk) 16:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

How about you stop talking and start editing, eh? Any parts that you deem "unworthy", your highness, (sarcasm) you should EDIT. --User:Gogandantess (talk) 13:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Slight change.

In the first album chart, I changed the Abbreviation of US Heatseekers, which was previously put as US Heart to US Heat. Its a very small change, but it stood out to me. If, for some reason it was supposed to be abbreviated as US Heart, change it back.

--User:Gogandantess (talk) 12:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

more than just disorganized

It's not so much that the article is messy, as that large sections are simply incomprehensible. It looks like it was written in Finnish and then run through a bad auto-translator. I can't fix it because I don't know what it's trying to say, and don't know what the facts are. Is there anyone out there who can straighten this out?? KarlM (talk) 07:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

History section

History section needs references--Idrol (talk) 09:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Can someone put a Mie oon Lordi book source list when I can not self?--Idrol (talk) 16:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Songs and details about songs are missing

ok,i came to this article looking for "evil love" to find out if it was a parody off another song and its not listed anywhere on here? ,we should find a comlete list of all lordi music and albums,www.letssingit.com mabey? i havent cheaked

why im not doing this is simple,sucky grammar and spelling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeharrietha (talk • contribs) 22:14, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Downgraded to C class

Sorry to those who work on this article, but this is not a B-class article. B-class generally requires that an article be "reasonably well-written", but there are almost incomprehensible sentences throughout this article. It looks like these are translations from Finnish. Examples only:

  • "The time of the appearance of the album the band costumes and mask were also made reforms" (Popularity waning)
  • "Tomi Putaansuu tried to Kalma get him to remain in the band suggested that he just playing the biggest tours and other gigs the band would be contracted to prime, which would be its own monster accessories." (Popularity waning)
  • "Lordi has said before the appearance of the disc to be aware that Deadache will sell at least not in Finland, like its predecessor." (Deadache)
  • "Over the years, the band's musical style has become heavier direction." (Band's music)

I suggest you get a native English speaker to go though the article from start to finish. No pun intended. 4u1e (talk) 05:54, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

kauhutematiikkaa?

The word kauhutematiikkaa appears here just once without any explanation, and I can not find it in the main article that the section is about. What is it?--69.132.98.223 (talk) 15:42, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

It is the partitive case of the word "kauhutematiikka", meaning "horror thematics". JIP | Talk 19:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Bend Over and Pray the Lord release date

I know for a fact that this will cause an edit war so it should be resolved quickly. the album Bend Over and Pray the Lord was officially released on September 3, 2012, along with the Scarchives Vol. 1 album. Beforehand there is no information about the album being released, hence why, despite its recording date being 1997, has the release date in 2012. I am unaware of the album being released beforehand since its not on the albums article nor on the bands article, so please discuss with references backing up your argument if you want to change this. - SilentDan297 talk 21:25, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Catholic countries?

To the best of my knowledge, Greece and Cyprus - unlike stated in the article - are countries not with a Catholic but a Greek-Orthodox religious majority. --Arbraxan (talk) 01:40, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

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Cleanup 2023

I wanted to make an announcement that in the coming weeks, I will be attempting to update the page completely. My aim is to fix any grammar issues, update photos and charts, and ensure that all sources cited on the page are accurate and up-to-date. Furthermore, I will attempt to create individual pages for all current and former members of the group. If anyone has any feedback or suggestions of projects to add to my list please feel free to let me know! CerysPen (talk) 05:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Bend Over And Pray The Lord Discography

Bend Over And Pray The Lord is not listed in the Discography nor is it marked on the timeline for the band. I see no reason it should not be included in the list. I am open for debate on weather it should be dated 1997 or 2012. My opinion for formatting is "Bend Over And Pray The Lord (1997, released 2012)" as well as a bar indicating the album in 1997 in the timeline graph. Any input? CerysPen (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree that it should not be included on the timeline. Even though it was released in 2012, it was part of a compilation album called Scarchives Vol.1. I don't see any sources that would generally include it as an official release as it was never released - only in a compilation that was limited. HorrorLover555 (talk) 04:19, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
I do have to agree with you, after digging deeper the band or at least Mr Lordi seem to have little interest in the album. It is a shame but there is no evidence I find to argue this is an "official" release or deserves much more mention then it already has. ~~~~ CerysPen (talk) 05:49, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Citation Issues

Below Provided is a list of all citations that no longer work and why if anyone as backups of these links or similar sources I would appreciate the time you'll save me. 1 (Page never loads), 16 (Cloud Flare Issue), 17 (Cloud Flare Issue), 26 (Page Removed), 31 (Citation goes to "search.blabbermouth.net" removing "search." from URL resolves issue), 40 (Page Removed), CerysPen (talk) 06:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Infobox Image

The image used in the infobox is hard to make out at its shrunken size, Hella and Mana are nearly invisible I recommend one of these two images, Official Photo or Monster Disco Hell Photo input or better photo suggestions appreciated. CerysPen (talk) 07:12, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

At the moment I disagree, as it is show an image of the band performing. I clicked on the image and both Hella and Mana are there, even when I was viewing it on the infobox. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:38, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Well no doubt there their and visible when the image is opened and make larger but but at its smaller scale they're hard to make out, It should be made as easy as possible to see all members in the photo. CerysPen (talk) 04:20, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Real names

For the last few weeks I have been working on missing pages for members, I now find the question is publishing the real names of active members right? There is multiple sources naming these members but as is the nature of the band there is nothing official. I see no problem naming former members who have left the persona, but putting active members real names on this resources doesn't feel right. Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CerysPen (talk • contribs) 17:41, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Reading through the lead, the members have stated that they wish for their names to be private. For the article name, most likely not, but their real names can be used in the lead summaries, as long as their stage name is covered afterwards. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:26, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Consideration

As per Draft:Mana (Finnish musician) there needs to be a " rough consensus" that the page should exist so I am put out a RFC to anyone who may find them selves editing the wiki to share their thoughts.CerysPen (talk) 04:57, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Table in Personnel section

There was no consensus made regarding the decision to change the table of lineups, as there should have been a discussion before making any changes to the table.

For example, this was a section of the table used before the edit: (We'll call this Table 1)

1992–1996 1996–1997 1997–1999 1999–2000
  • Mr Lordi – lead vocals, guitar, bass, drums
  • Mr Lordi – lead vocals, drums
  • Amen – guitar
  • G-Stealer – bass
  • Mr Lordi – lead vocals, drums
  • Amen – guitar
  • G-Stealer – bass
  • Enary – keyboards
  • Mr Lordi – lead vocals, drums
  • Amen – guitar
  • Enary – keyboards
  • Magnum – bass

Here is the current table being used: (Table 2)

Role Album
Get Heavy
(2002) 		The Monsterican Dream
(2004) 		The Arockalypse
(2006) 		Deadache
(2008) 		Babez for Breakfast
(2010) 		To Beast or Not to Beast
(2013) 		Scare Force One
(2014) 		Monstereophonic
(2016) 		Sexorcism
(2018) 		Killection
(2020) 		Lordiversity
(2022) 		Screem Writers Guild
(2023)
Lead vocals Mr Lordi
Guitar Amen Kone
Keyboards Enary Awa Hella
Bass Magnum Kalma Ox Hiisi
Drums Kita Mana

I have to say that Table 1 seems more suitable, as it notes on the many lineup changes on who came and went from the band by each year. The article Van Halen uses the same table for its article, however there should have been a discussion to a full consensus prior to the change. So is there a preference that which table can be used? Please indicate your preference on which table is preferred ("Table 1" or "Table 2") with your reasoning, so we can come to a conclusion on which table can be used. HorrorLover555 (talk) 06:23, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think either is needed its just repeating the same data showed below it. My opinion is to remove the Personnel table and use the timeline better. CerysPen (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I agree. It'd be better to use the timeline. HorrorLover555 (talk) 02:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Here is a timeline I made up has some improvements made; you've been working on this page for a while so ill trust all final calls to you. Changes listed below.
- Changed timeline to start in 1996 (As noted " it wasn't until 1996 that Lordi became a band in its own right.")
- Timeline reordered to bring keys above drums simply because Enary joined earlier
- Added notation for backing vocals, and touring musicians (Mr Lordi could be given backing vocal mark but it seems unnecessary)
- Added bar for other releases, currently showing Movies, Compilations, and Video Albums
- Added The Drummer and Nalle as touring musicians, Kalma is also noted in reference to the 2 shows he did in 2006 (I believe he played rhythm guitar but just noted as guitar) CerysPen (talk) 04:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Glam metal?

The Finnish version of the article list the band as glam metal. Should it be added here? Seaparrot876 (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Is it covered by a reliable source? Make sure that there is a reliable source that can cover it, although there is a musical style in the section already that covers on it being hard rock, heavy metal and to a certain extent, shock rock. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3
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