Talk:Longburn

Imaginary innovation.

Merely ggogling the operative words “continuous carton freezing” brings up, as the second hit a cite for airchilled continuous freezing in 1952, although for fish, not beef. Birdseye used the system earlier still, although for contact plate freezing. Qwirkle (talk) 00:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

An imaginary refutation. I will revert now. Eddaido (talk) 00:38, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Restoring a claim...and your own claim, the source’s may be a great deal more narrow... when it is so trivially debunked reflects either vandalism or competence issues. ANI will undoubtedly decide which. Qwirkle (talk) 17:44, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

US history

"In 1960, Iowa Beef Packers (as it was then known) was founded by Currier Holman and A. D. Anderson with $300,000 in financing from the Small Business Administration, rather than a traditional bank. They built a completely new plant in Dennison, Iowa, close to big feedlots and cheap energy sources. The sprawling plant was all on one floor so that the beef carcasses could be moved around on conveyers. Immediately after the animal was killed, the beef was refrigerated and the rest of the process was done in the cold. That reduced the shrinkage of the meat from dehydration.

But the biggest innovation that IBP came up with was the idea for “boxed beef,” as explained here by IBP executive Dale Tinstman: “It was a natural progression from the efficiencies of shipping carcasses to shipping boxed beef. There is a lot of wasted space in a modern truck or rail car filled with chilled sides of beef. A side of beef has an awkward shape – it can’t be neatly packed, and a side has a lot of bone and trim that will never go into the meat case. It was logical to move to boxed beef.”

They were quick to pick it up weren't they but they were running a couple of years behind. @Qwirkle: now change it back please. Eddaido (talk) 09:21, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

No. That is a useful cite for one company’s claims about its history, perhaps, but does nothing to support your claim that 1959 saw “The world's first continuous carton freezer”, which went back decades at that point. Boxed beef was nothing new, either: Argentina had been exporting it for at least 50-odd year then... as has New Zealand itself (note the 3d cite, pp311-312).

It is always possible to find parochial cites, sometimes otherwise good, that make claims that reflect the author’s limited point of view rather than actual fact. It is always possible, through sloppy thinking, to widen a valid fact into an invalid generality. Here you are doing both. Qwirkle (talk) 13:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Qwirkle my devoted and foolish follower what utter nonsense you write here in WP. You could be deleted solely for the way you are following me, I seem to have become the focus of your entire life. You need help.

I'm going to do my usual thing and tiptoe quietly away from you . . . Eddaido (talk) 10:14, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

What could be more predictable than Eddaido claiming to slink off, but instead regurgitating his own misused cite yet again. Qwirkle (talk) 16:44, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

References

The original citation

Dr Andrew Cleland FIPENZ, FIRHACE 
Institution of Professional Engineers New Zealand, P O Box 12241, Wellington 6144

Refrigeration: underpinning the New Zealand economy for over 125 years

Paper presented to:

Third Australasian Engineering Heritage Conference 2009

Page 3:

4. THE CARTON FREEZER

Prior to the 1950s the beef trade had been dominated by quarter beef. The emergence of the hamburger in the United States of America opened up a new product line – frozen boneless beef suitable to be processed directly. The New Zealand industry responded. The process involved an overnight chill of beef sides to 100C and then boning out of the sides to fill cartons to be frozen.

Working with Ellis Hardie Syminton Ltd who did the refrigeration, Bill Freeman of the Cooperative Wholesale Society designed and constructed the world’s first continuous carton freezer for cartons of beef at the company’s Longburn freezing works near Palmerston North. The completion was during the 1959/60 processing season. Eddaido (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

What eddaido can not see is that he has taken a cite claiming that a particular plant in New Zealand has used a particular method on a particular product at a particular scale - continuous carton freezing, for beef, 60lb cartons at a whack, and used it to state that continuous carton freezing was a New Zealand Invention. (Just as with other netkooks (cf. New Jersey), he appears to see his native soil as peculiarly inportant…especially when, in context, it isnt. The extra caps and bolding are hardly adequate; I’m sure he’d prefer neon, but lets keep some decorum, eh?)

Now, New Zealand is essentially Vermont, without the handy nearby metropolises to absorb its output; a pastoral and extractive economy which overproduces, wildly, meat for its own needs as a byproduct of wool and dairy production. It’s also a reasonably educated place, so seeking technical solutions for this issue is entirely reasonable, and it would not surprise me if they were first to ship out large quantities of 60-pound boxes of frozen beef chilled in assembly-line fashion. (I’d find it equally unsurprising if others did so, although perhaps not on this scale.)

What this does not justify is Eddaido’s conceit - in. both senses - that every frozen package on the supermarket shelf sprung forth, ultimately, from Longburn, and that is what he is claiming, in Wiki’s voice, in the article. Qwirkle (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2021 (UTC)